The Feast of Tahuti & the Child of the Prophet

gmugmble

@Jim Eshelman said

"It's not an issue of secrecy per se,"

Well, the verse does continue, "... secret, O Prophet"

Steven Cranmer

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@Lapis said
"Is this the child mentioned in III:43?"

I'd say no. - I interpret those Scarlet Woman verses almost exclusively in terms of consciousness."

These "internal" interpretations have a strong resonance for me, but it's probably important to also keep in mind the more literal interpretations. At least at the writings of the Old and/or New Comments, Crowley did seem to interpret this as a "prophecy" of the death of his and Rose's first child.

@Lapis said

"
@Steven Cranmer said
"Oh, there's a lot of diversity of opinion on these, too! "

There shouldn't be. Crowley was quite clear in his new comment what those feasts represented."

The interpretations of the scribe do deserve special weight, but never to the exclusion of all others (in my opinion). I guess I was thinking mainly about the assignment of specific elements and times of year to the "rituals of the elements and the feasts of the times," for which there's some variety. Most of the other ones are indeed much clearer.

Also, though, I wonder about other associations that Crowley may have had rattling around in his head, but never wrote down explicitly -- here, I'm thinking of the fact that Eid ul-Adha (sometimes called the "Greater Feast" in Islam) was taking place a few weeks before his Invocation of Horus in 1904.

This darn book has tendrils that go slithering out into so many areas of religion, myth, philosophy, etc... that I sometimes chafe at statements that "the meaning of verse X is obvious." Apologies (for chafing, and for channeling Kenneth Grant there for a second).

Steve

Lapis

Which Solstice/Equinox corresponds to which Element? I learned it as Vernal Equinox=Air, Summer Solstice=Fire, Autumnal Equinox=Earth & Winter Solstice=Water...

but I recently found another source that cited it as Vernal=Fire, Summer=Water, Autumnal=Air & Winter=Earth(which makes little sense to me)...
Which is correct?

L.Lazuli

Jim Eshelman

@Lapis said

"Which Solstice/Equinox corresponds to which Element? I learned it as Vernal Equinox=Air, Summer Solstice=Fire, Autumnal Equinox=Earth & Winter Solstice=Water...

but I recently found another source that cited it as Vernal=Fire, Summer=Water, Autumnal=Air & Winter=Earth(which makes little sense to me)...
Which is correct?"

Here's where one of those variations in interpretation comes in. I think both of those are the wrong view because the idea is that all four are to be feasts of the elements (plural), rather than each being the feast of a single element.

Look at the Golden Dawn equinox ceremony. It is easy to see that it is a celebration of all four elements. Similarly, the consecratory ceremonies that the Golden Dawn's Second Order performed on their vault near (but not at) the summer solstice is a ceremony of all four elements. Crowley would have been acutely familiar with these. (In fact, Waite's Fellowship of the Rosy Cross moved the latter ceremony to the summer solstice itself, with a similar and complementary ceremony at winter solstice.)

The A.'.A.'. equinox ceremony, made available to those in the 1=10 grade and higher, continues to be a ritual celebration of all four elements.

Uni_Verse

I never gave the line much thought, normally reading it as a celebration of the fruits of wisdom.

Meditating a bit on it now, I was thinking of it as a celebration of words, or the word. As Tahuti was seen as the God of writing, 'words' being viewed as his Prophets ; they 'speak' for him. The child would be the meaning of the words.

It seems to make less sense as I write it down...

Frater Pantha

@Uni_Verse said

"I never gave the line much thought, normally reading it as a celebration of the fruits of wisdom..."

Me too, except I thought it was also making a mention of the coming of Crowley's predicted Magick Child (Crowley later claimed that Jones was that prediction made manifest). I have read and heard the phrase many times always thinking that I knew what it meant (A feast for Tahuti and everything that archetype represents, and the Magick Child of the Prophet.). Now I guess I need to give greater pause about its meaning.

Lapis

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@Lapis said
"Which Solstice/Equinox corresponds to which Element? I learned it as Vernal Equinox=Air, Summer Solstice=Fire, Autumnal Equinox=Earth & Winter Solstice=Water...

but I recently found another source that cited it as Vernal=Fire, Summer=Water, Autumnal=Air & Winter=Earth(which makes little sense to me)...
Which is correct?"

Here's where one of those variations in interpretation comes in. I think both of those are the wrong view because the idea is that all four are to be feasts of the elements (plural), rather than each being the feast of a single element.

Look at the Golden Dawn equinox ceremony. It is easy to see that it is a celebration of all four elements. Similarly, the consecratory ceremonies that the Golden Dawn's Second Order performed on their vault near (but not at) the summer solstice is a ceremony of all four elements. Crowley would have been acutely familiar with these. (In fact, Waite's Fellowship of the Rosy Cross moved the latter ceremony to the summer solstice itself, with a similar and complementary ceremony at winter solstice.)

The A.'.A.'. equinox ceremony, made available to those in the 1=10 grade and higher, continues to be a ritual celebration of all four elements."

Feasts & Rituals aside, what are the elemental correspondances of the Equinoxes/Solstices?

L.Lazuli

Steven Cranmer

@Lapis said

"Feasts & Rituals aside, what are the elemental correspondances of the Equinoxes/Solstices?"

The two sets you gave above are two examples. I can think of at least two others that make as much sense. There's no one correct answer, I think...

(1) Your first one (vernal: air, summer: fire, etc.) seems to come from a mostly alchemical progression: hot/wet to hot/dry to cold/dry to cold/wet.

(2) Your second one (vernal: fire, summer: water) comes from associating the cardinal signs that are starting in the tropical zodiac at the times of the 4 events.

(3) One can also associate the fixed signs to the four seasons, since one can argue that the fixed signs are in force at the "peak" times of the seasons. Thus: vernal: earth (Taurus), summer: fire (Leo), autumnal: water (Scorpio), and winter: air (Aquarius).

(4) There is also a "diurnal" system that comes from the microcosmic association of elements to quarters (like in the LBRP). The Sun's "deosil" daily path is linked to its yearly path. Vernal would be east/air, summer would be south/fire, and so on. (Those first two are the same as the alchemical, but the latter two are switched!)

I'm sure that one or another of these are more appropriate for certain workings, certain stages on the initiatory path, etc., than the others. DWTW!

Steve

Wizardiaoan

Let me bereave all of you of Jim's confusion here & give the day proper of the Feast as 4/7, the birthdate of the magickal child. There is thus a wild 4 day orgy from 4/7-4/10 ever year, where everyone gets shit crazy, & grandmothers get eaten!

TAHVTI = 83, 1019 in Greek is worshipped on 4/7 too for his assosciations with the nature & Will of the magickal child. Why this name instead of Thoth I suppose is in the Grammatometria, etc.

But there is also further indications of the Martiality of this Child, besides the Thothonian. This is brought out in its serial verse number of 105 = 5 x 21 = Fire, & II:39 = 239 = AZRAL, the Angel of Death.

Every Thelemite right now is at War until our Will is made unhindered, & our Word dominant upon Earth: please know this.

I cannot say or reveal more at this time, or here. I will say that I don't accept Jim's AA as particulary true or helpful, & just rather encourage individual Will via Ritual, drugs, sex, yoga, etc. to rise up. Please do not waste your time reading dull & outdated books, this helps no one. I would rather you make me more spears as it were than dying in your rocking chairs. More fighting, less reading. One Christian dead is one less swine on earth. Mwahaha!

Also, I recall Jim saying he never mixes psychedelics with Ritual...wow, that's so virile of you, not; waterlogged stick anyone?! I suppose you would rather rot yourself to a movie, or go to some joke of a club and dance stupidly to some bullshit phony music, etc., etc. To every other sane person, one will find that a low dose of shrooms for instance is an absolute exquisite addition to any Ritual practice. What recreation allows a more sane & balanced energy valve release of the psychedelic quintessence than Ritual/Yoga?! These are sacred substances that should be treated sacredly. Sorry, but it struck me as spineless & not at all what psychedelics should be about. Take note from Jimmy Page, he's the real deal--he snorted it all up then let it all hang out, as so a Great Feast should be constituted!

Until the crowned bird pooping tyrant TVRANNIS TERRIBILIS strikes again,

H.H.H.H.H.
4774

Jim Eshelman

I think that post speaks for itself.