Pure Will and True Will
-
I posted in another area of this board a thread about Charles Stansfield Jones. The problem I'm having is that these days people get such a watered down version of how Aleister Crowley really was. Although he made extreme leaps and bounds in the occult field, and it is sometimes better to just look at the good, and not the bad, Aleister Crowley was a detestable man, of wicked persona, and sadistic fetishes. Just look at the Nightmare Realm in his Abbey in Sicily. (I can expound further lol, with factual information, not just opinion). The people he associated most closely with were often left broken, insane, or in some cases even committed suicide. Charles Jones being an example to one degree or another.
True Will/Pure Will. Last night in Liber Kaos I was reading Carroll's theories on True Will, so I struggle from time to time. I'm drawn to what the Golden Dawn did from an intellectual standpoint. I read a quote once that, "those who passed through the degrees of the Golden Dawn at the very least would have the equivillent of a master's degree from college for this system. But I also understand that they "failed to initiate" Crowley created some sheer BRILLIANT documents in the time he wrote, and the work he did with George C. Jones is what I concentrate on above all else, but as he digressed further and further into his drug addictions and life long crusade to be Sin in every conceivable way, I think he fell further and further away from Crowley the genius that went on a Six year trek to study and learn, or that performed the preliminary Invocation in the King's Chamber in a pyramid in Egypt.
I try to sift the genius from the derrangement. Personally I believe in the True Will concept. Having experienced it in my time...have you ever had a moment, or a series of moments, perhaps turned into days, or even longer where everything just fell into place? I think when that is happening you've stumbled upon your True Path, and if you could just clearly grasp the purpose of that Path, you could stay on it, and follow your True Will
-
@h3fall3n777 said
"Just look at the Nightmare Realm in his Abbey"
...compare to the Buddhist temples that are painted with images of people being disemboweled - I don't see how the 'Nightmare Realm' is much different.
616
-
True, but I don't believe in the Buddhist temples that they are feeding the inhabitants, cocaine, hashish, and heroin, or keeping them in the room while under the effects of said drugs?
-
@sethur said
"The term "Pure Will" appears in Liber Al, the concept of True Will was developed by Crowley. I don't think they are the same thing,"
I don't either. That is, while they may overlap, the phrases means distinctive things.
"and in fact I'm not sure that True Will is a valid concept at all"
When someone tells me they "don't believe in God," I usually wonder which one they don't believe in.
I recognize your expression of agnosticism rather than affirmative disbelief ("not sure"), but am left with the same sort of question: Since you haven't defined "True Will," I don't know what exactly you're agnostic about. - While there is probably nothing the reality of which I "believe in" (so-called) and accept more than the reality of True Will (since it pretty much takes care of everything else
), I suspect that just maybe we aren't talking about the same ideas.I recently came across a quote attributed to Confucius in this regard, which has the virtue of expressing the root idea sublimely well without using any of our usual language about it: ""To find the central clue to our moral being which unites us to the universal order, that indeed is the highest human attainment."
-
93,
Anything that is 'pure' has been brought back to its original or essential form. In Thelema, this has little or no connection to traditional concepts of chastity, innocence, good manners and other forms of 'niceness'. It's the raw thing itself, undeflected in any way (unassuaged of purpose) and without any intellectual or emotional blockages (delivered from the lust of result) on the part of the human vehicle for that will.
However, most of us are still very heavily entangled with such issues in our own lives, and being uncomfortable about facing this transparently, we rebel against them, most particularly when they are manifested in someone else. AC's personality becomes an excellent mirror for us in such matters.
This is not an excuse for anything he did, or is reputed to have done. But I don't see any point in deflecting my own purpose by getting stuck in a moralistic stance about him and his actions. I am not AC, and I have no intention of following in his footsteps. I have enough of my own crap to work through before my own will becomes pure.
93 93/93,
EM
-
93,
I dont see how one could think they mean separate things. Sure, 'true will' is not used in Liber AL but 666 uses it essentially coterminously with pure will. He says pretty damn clearly in Liber II:
"The Key to this Message is this word -- Will. The first obvious meaning of this Law is confirmed by antithesis; "The Word of Sin is Restriction." Again: "... thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect." Take this carefully; it seems to imply a theory that if every man and every woman did his and her will -- the true Will -- there would be no clashing."
In Duty he quotes this same line in Liber AL (I:44) under the section that says "Do not repress or restrict any true instinct of your Nature; but devote all in perfection to the sole service of your one True Will."
How one could gather that these have separate meanings is beyond me.
"This verse is best interpreted by defining 'pure will' as the true expression of the Nature, the proper or inherent motion of the matter, concerned."
IAO131
-
Let's check the dictionary, always good for yoks:
true (tr)
adj. tru·er, tru·est
1.
a. Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous. See Synonyms at real1. See Usage Note at fact.
b. Truthful.
2. Real; genuine. See Synonyms at authentic.
3. Reliable; accurate: a true prophecy.
4. Faithful, as to a friend, vow, or cause; loyal. See Synonyms at faithful.
5. Sincerely felt or expressed; unfeigned: true grief.
6. Fundamental; essential: his true motive.
7. Rightful; legitimate: the true heir.
8. Exactly conforming to a rule, standard, or pattern: trying to sing true B.
9. Accurately shaped or fitted: a true wheel.
10. Accurately placed, delivered, or thrown.
11. Quick and exact in sensing and responding.
12. Determined with reference to the earth's axis, not the magnetic poles: true north.
13. Conforming to the definitive criteria of a natural group; typical: The horseshoe crab is not a true crab.
14. Narrowly particularized; highly specific: spoke of probity in the truest sense of the word.
15. Computer Science Indicating one of two possible values taken by a variable in Boolean logic or a binary device.pure (pyr)
adj. pur·er, pur·est- Having a homogeneous or uniform composition; not mixed: pure oxygen.
- Free from adulterants or impurities: pure chocolate.
- Free of dirt, defilement, or pollution: "A memory without blot or contamination must be . . . an inexhaustible source of pure refreshment" Charlotte Brontë.
- Free of foreign elements.
- Containing nothing inappropriate or extraneous: a pure literary style.
- Complete; utter: pure folly.
- Having no faults; sinless: "I felt pure and sweet as a new baby" Sylvia Plath.
- Chaste; virgin.
- Of unmixed blood or ancestry.
- Genetics Produced by self-fertilization or continual inbreeding; homozygous: a pure line.
- Music Free from discordant qualities: pure tones.
- Linguistics Articulated with a single unchanging speech sound; monophthongal: a pure vowel.
- Theoretical: pure science.
- Philosophy Free of empirical elements: pure reason.
In these terms, "pure" and "true", while not exactly synonyms, are compatible. "Unswerving" might be a word that encapsulates what's common.
As an aside, I think it's pretty clear that the idea of "true will" has seeped into general culture - it's virtually the main principle of New Age philosophy (Campbell's "follow your bliss" is probably the best expression of it in popular culture).
-
I find the two concepts to be similar, if not exact matches. Pure Will, in my mind, seems to be a requirement for True Will (its source?). A Pure Will , without purpose, would 'naturally' fall towards its 'true' course or True Will ; which is not a 'direction' per se.
A good way to put it is : A True Will is a Pure Will moving on its proper course.
-
OK, I think that the terms can be best defined by their opposites. False Will and Diluted Will.
I happen to think that in part "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" is prophesy. The 20th century saw a falling away from notions of compulsion amongst sane individuals. The Nazis used the philosophy of surrendering the will to a superior as a defence in the Nuremberg trials, often jokingly reduced to "I vas only obeyink orders". The same defence was used by William Calley in Vietnam. Both failed, it was judged that they chose to do what they did, and were punished accordingly. Similarly, until the mid 1970s in the UK it was permitted to use the defence of "Homosexual panic" to excuse killing a gay man - the idea was that if a gay guy hit on a straight guy the straight could fly into an uncontrollable rage, and get off a murder charge. No longer.
To me pure will means living a willed life and accepting responsibility for one's own actions, without expecting reward.
False Will suggests that we can do things at will that we shouldn't. It allows a defence of "yes, I did do that and I did it on purpose, but I was following my False Will, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, can I say 5 Hail Babalons and be forgiven my sins?"
-
@h3fall3n777 said
"True, but I don't believe in the Buddhist temples that they are feeding the inhabitants, cocaine, hashish, and heroin
"You're right - evidence suggests that the Buddhists were ingesting datura - & there is plenty of evidence to suggest that hashish might have been used as well...
@h3fall3n777 said
"or keeping them in the room while under the effects of said drugs?"
The participants at the Abbey weren't held there beyond their will. They knew full well that upon entering the room that they would be held there for a prescribed amount of time.
616
-
@sethur said
"OK, I think that the terms can be best defined by their opposites. False Will and Diluted Will."
Better, perhaps, False Will and POLluted or "adulterated" Will.
We see frequently people doing the strangest things which (as far as we can pronounce on the question) do not seem to be part of their True Will, at least we can say the acts are "not in their long-term interest", but they're doing it from a sense of "pure will" - "because I wanted to", "just for the Hell of it", "it was the right thing to do", "it seemed like a good idea at the time". There may, indeed, be external conditioning coming into play (what I learned in Sunday School, the amount of alcohol I'd drunk) but the Will is still in a sense "pure will" in that it does not "cry why, invoking because"; it is not consciously weighing up the influences on it; in many cases, it doe not have a particular "lust of result". In those senses, it is "pure" but it is not necessarily in the direction of the True Will.
I'm doubtful about that argument, I must admit; it's difficult for me to see such acts being validly described as "perfect".
More clearly, you can do your True Will from "impure" or "adulterated" motives. Cultivating fitness of my body may be part of my True Will; but I may run this race with "lust of result" - I want to beat a rival, I want to impress someone on the sidelines.
GuruGeorge in his exhaustive list of definitions, mentions a pure (as opposed to "discordant") musical tone. I'm sure most of us have experienced the phenomenon of resonance; the chord (or discord) you sound may be complex, containing a range of pitches (frequencies), but an object in the room "rings" with a pure tone in symnpathy with one particular note of that chord - a note which most human ears might not even identify.
We can compare that resonant frequency to the True Will. It can be furthered by one element among an impure mess of motives.
So "True Will" may not be "Pure"; and "pure will", in the sense of having no consciously conceived motive, may not be True.
As I see it, "True" is a description of a long-term direction or aim; "Pure" describes what you do from moment to moment; the individual decision you make in the next minute.
When thinking of Pure Will, I call to mind Julius Caesar (according to Shakespeare). Asked for some "cause" for refusing to come to the Forum on the Ides of March, he says "the cause is in my will; I will not come" and earlier "cannot is false and that I dare not falser". But the Senators heavy him with "becauses", finally holding out a bribe of a crown to be offered him, and he capitulates.
We can see what his "pure will" was; but which was his True Will - to go to the Forum and be assassinated, or not to go? Not a simple question; Pure Will and True Will are not completely coincident, often not even roughly so.
That's my take on it, anyway. I'm open, of course, to criticism and other views.
OP
-
I think the best way to look at TRUE WILL is to link it up with TAOism.
Tao mean "the way" which is general like Osiris formula the WILL of God would be seen as the TAO. The saying goes "where their is a WILL their is a WAY" The old aeon formula simply starts with THE WAY and say where there is THE WAY their must be "THE WILL" and whose WILL is "the WILL" lets call him God.
anyway, the new Aeon has de-generalized the WILL of GOD, into a Particular WILL specific to the subject (HADIT). and so where their is a WILL their is a WAY, thus the TAO is also de-generalized into particular ways.
Thus ones TRUE WILL is linked to ones particular WAY, or the TAO as manifest in your particular. (The orbit of ones star).
Ok back on target now as an arrow on TARGET flies TRUE, like by WILL must be on target to be TRUE, ie it must be TRUE to its WAY or Tao.
So "don't go out of your way" and you stay "TRUE to your WILL"
if you go out of your way, then your WILL is not TRUE the arrow of your being flies not straight to the target but deviates from its course, its TAO.
-
Yes. That's good. The Tao, the way things really are, untwisted by samsara.
True will. The way the universe really works.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
93,
" The True Will is uncaused, being simply the measure of the motion of the self in respect of any given object." - Comment D
COmment to AL I:44, "This verse is best interpreted by defining 'pure will' as the true expression of the Nature, the proper or inherent motion of the matter, concerned. It is unnatural to aim at any goal."
Connecting true and pure will: "Thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect.'' Take this carefully; it seems to imply a theory that if every man and every woman did his and her will--the true will--there would be no clashing. `" - Liber II
For Chris Hanlon & post above: "This is roughly the plan of the Taoist in his attitude to life. Having ascertained the Path which satisfies the equations of his Nature (as we say, "found his True Will") he continues "without lust of result," acting only when it happens to be necessary to adjust himself to any external stress that affects him, and so proceeds happily" - Magick Without Tears
'The man Crowley had been chosen to enunciate this Law, that is, to exercise the essential function of a Magus. But he had yet to understand it, a task which involved the crossing of the Abyss, already described; and further, to identify his will with the Law, so that his personality might act as the focus of its energy. Before he could be that pure will whose name is that word, he had to be purged by fire of all competing volitions; and this was done by those who had chosen him during this part of his life, which I am about to record...** I continued by setting forth the import and purport of that word. I announced that since "Every man and every woman is a star.", each of us is defined and determined by a set of co-ordinates, has a true will proper and necessary, the dynamic expression of that nature. **The conclusion from these premises is that the sole and whole duty of each of us is, having discovered the purpose for which he or she is fitted, to devote every energy to its accomplishment." - Confessions
It seems he uses them rather interchangeably.
IAO131
-
And Crowley is always the voice of reason, right? OR is it how people read him? To me they are quite separate. Seems like it is saying before he could be pure will he had to discover his True Will to take him to that state (whose name is that word). -
Hi Everybody,
Aum, thanks for the note.
The Abyss - you think people really have crossed the Abyss? No, that's not what I meant.
Who on this list assumes they have or someone else has crossed the Abyss, and how can you tell?
Thanks,
chrys333 -
@Aum418 said
"'The man Crowley had been chosen to enunciate this Law, that is, to exercise the essential function of a Magus. But he had yet to understand it, a task which involved the crossing of the Abyss, already described; and further, to identify his will with the Law, so that his personality might act as the focus of its energy. Before he could be that pure will whose name is that word, he had to be purged by fire of all competing volitions; and this was done by those who had chosen him during this part of his life, which I am about to record...** I continued by setting forth the import and purport of that word. I announced that since "Every man and every woman is a star.", each of us is defined and determined by a set of co-ordinates, has a true will proper and necessary, the dynamic expression of that nature. **The conclusion from these premises is that the sole and whole duty of each of us is, having discovered the purpose for which he or she is fitted, to devote every energy to its accomplishment." - Confessions"
I myself see them as pretty interchangeable too. I usually connotate "pure will" to the very special experiencial gnosis arrived at during pranayama, where one really is in Samadhi upon 0. I associate "true will" with yes lining up with the stream, purpose, or current that you incarnated for. I accept a general "will to the higher" both in physical and spiritual evolution, and that those either not willing themselves to be better or directly going against the tide of truth, will be not operating in accord...with the Dao, "true will" etc.
This is the "pure will" too, but one's "true will" throughout life implies a lot of action and mundane activity, I associate "pure will" to a type of higher meditative or magickal gnosis. That's just me, I'm not sure it's correct.