Working with Qliphothic Energy's in the later grades.
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93,
RZK wrote:
"Most so called thelemic systems barely work with the Qliphoth at all, and when they state that they do.. Well, then there is not much to it. The whole point more or less seems to be a way of affirming the position one is already in, a position that one has gained by shutting out the dark side.
"This discussion is now getting just plain silly. Who's going to be first to post: "Nyah-nyah, our God is darker than your God, so there" ?
93 93/93,
EM
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@KRVB MMShCh said
"The Dehn/Guth translation features an entire other section that focuses on spells & folk magick...it falls beween books 1 & 2."
I don't have it but I've read a lot of debate about it online, about it's authenticity. I'm no historian but there are a lot of people out there who seem to feel there are problems with the extra section.
@Metz
I don't really prescribe to the whole good/bad angel/demon view of spirits. I have an attitude moreof the Pre-Christian Greek sense that sethur refers to. That's quite possibly why I don't like "demon" to qlippoth.
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@kuniggety said
"I'm no historian but there are a lot of people out there who seem to feel there are problems with the extra section."
...such as?
616
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@Edward Mason said
"This discussion is now getting just plain silly. Who's going to be first to post: "Nyah-nyah, our God is darker than your God, so there" ?"
T-shirt viewed yesterday, worn by a brother ascending the moutain:
"I'm just wearing black until they come out with something darker."
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Another way to say it: You don't need to work the Qlippoth. They work you! All you have to do is meet the challenge of what arises.
"Jim nailed it,thank you pretty much what I was thinking.
Then I love how so many Thelemites talk about the Qlipthoth and don't even work with it or experienced it.
In the occult experience is every thing not reading it in Theory.
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93,
RZK wrote:
"I think you have misunderstood my point. Please re-read."
I just re-read your post. I feel I do understand your point. I just don't think you see the opposite viewpoint of the people who disagree. Which wouldn't matter at all, since you've made your own choice of path, and don't need others' approval or comprehension for that.
But you are portraying other Thelemites as (in effect) being closed or narrow minded. And that's not necessarily true at all.
93 93/93,
EM
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@rzk said
"There is nothing wrong with the Right Hand Path."
Was often is left to wonder, though, if the left hand really knows what the right hand is doing.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Was often is left to wonder, though, if the left hand really knows what the right hand is doing."
"let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth" - Matt. 6:3
616
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@rzk said
"That's the reason why the Left Hand Path works with both the Sephiroth and the Qliphoth, both the right and the left hand."
... therefore the left hand path is "superior"... right?
btw... it is a little misleading to equate the "right hand path" to the "sephiroth" You can follow the ascending path on the sephiroth and still be a left hand path magician. You can work with the qlippoth and still be a right hand path magician. The real scheme of things is the reason why you do those things. That's the real issue. In the end you decide if you keep your ego or let go.
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""... therefore the left hand path is "superior"... right?"
No?
"not really...
In Liber AL vel Legis Chapter I, we also find:
*"50. There is a word to say about the Hierophantic task. Behold! there are three ordeals in one, and it may be given in three ways. The gross must pass through fire; let the fine be tried in intellect, and the lofty chosen ones in the highest. Thus ye have star & star, system & system; let not one know well the other!" *
"52. If this be not aright; if ye confound the space-marks, saying:* They are one; or saying, They are many**; if the ritual be not ever unto me: then expect the direful judgments of Ra Hoor Khuit!"*
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Why anyone would want to "work" the qlippoth is beyond me.
I've been pondering the nature of qlippothic energies in the context of understanding initiation and ordeals as a process of metamorphosis and evolution.
My question is whether qlippoth arise from too much softness or hardness.
Mathers suggests the qlippoth result from an imbalance toward the Pillar of Mercy. Does that mean the aspirant attracts qlippothic energies due to being too open, naive and merciful - i.e. a lack of understanding and severity? Or does the aspirant attract qlippothic energies as a natural adjustment from being too severe, judgemental and hurtful - i.e. a lack of mercy and compassion toward others?
Qlippoth are described as discarded husks or shells. Like the dead skin of a snake or exoskeleton of a cicada. This traditional description does not seem accurate. Based on examples in Nature, I suspect husks and shells are what result from coming in contact with toxic qlippothic energies and subsequently discarded when a new, more mature self emerges from the former identity. That would suggest two conclusions: first, qlippothic energies are not going away anytime soon - like sweeping dead skin into a dustbin; second, these energies have a function to test whether the aspirant has evolved to the next level.
Any opinions?
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One way to think of Qlippoth is like the outer bark of a tree, "dead matter" which is not nourished by the waters of life in the tree. The inner bark is "living matter" (Assaiah) still fed by the water of life (divine/spiritual light).
In the traditional kabbalah, the outer-bark becomes mixed up with the inner bark through a catastrophe referred to as shevirat ha-kelim (the breaking of the vessels). As with a real tree, the cells of the inner bark now suffer because they have become cut-off from the the source of water, or have become exposed to the "outside" elements/toxins.
This catastrophe can be undone through tikkun (the repairing). Tikkun is, in a sense, "working the qlippoth", by clearing away the "dead husks" that are between the living cells of the inner bark and their spiritual wellspring or figuratively realigning these husks so that they protect the living cell from the "outside".
This article discusses the mythology relevant to the Qlippoth (aka qelipot):
Tikkun in Lurianic KabbalahIt's not so much that the aspirant attracts "Qlippothic energies", but that that aspirant becomes more aware of what veils or stands between themselves and the pure source.
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@he atlas itch said
"Why anyone would want to "work" the Qlippoth is beyond me.
I've been pondering the nature of Qlippoth energies in the context of understanding initiation and ordeals as a process of metamorphosis and evolution.
My question is whether Qlippoth arise from too much softness or hardness.
Any opinions?"
The Qlippoth are what occurs in consciousness when there is a lack of conscious-awareness. When Tiphareth is passive (in anyone who has not crossed Paroketh), consciousness will slip, undirected, between the Qlippoth and the positive Sephiroth.
For instance, if someone is confronted by another person in a challenging way, the subject may respond with strength of will(the positive energy of Geburah) to confront the situation, but if, through lack of training, Tiphareth is allowed to become passive, then the subject’s strength of will may turn to rage which is an unconscious state. Rage being the shell of Geburah.
The shells are indeed "empty". Empty of 'consciousness=love=light'.
@SetiDraconis said
"Then I love how so many Thelemites talk about the Qlipthoth and don't even work with it or experienced it."
Every person who walks the path works with and experiences the Qliphoth. They are our every slip. They are the hurdles that cause our growth.
@Jim Eshelman said
"Another way to say it: You don't need to work the Qlippoth. They work you! All you have to do is meet the challenge of what arises.
"Precisely!
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Thanks for both of your replies.
I can see how qlippoth are energetic shells or husks "cut off" from the Tree as a whole (etheric doubles come to mind). But it does not seem accurate to describe them as shells or husks in the sense of dead bark or dead skin or exoskeleton of a cicada or carapace of a crustacean - which are dead forms and identities that have been discarded due to no longer being useful for the organism's evolution. Kabbalists describe qlippoth as shards of energy that have survived the destruction of prior worlds. They are toxic for human consciousness due to being from another aeon and I would like to better understand how these poisonous energies play a role in the aspirant's metamorphosis - not in the sense of deliberately seeking to work with the Tree of Death or Goetia, but in the everyday interaction, experiences and transformation of the aspirant. As Jim noted earlier - one does not need to work the qlippoth, they "work" you. If so, the qlippoth seem to play a role in perfecting the aspirant and building a stronger relationship with his or her HGA.
Shunyata - how does your description apply to a scenario where the aspirant suddenly becomes aware of qlippothic energies coming at him via others? And others seem intent on projecting these qlippothic aspects onto him whereas the aspirant feels nothing has changed inside himself? Is it a sign that the aspirant is being far too ambitious in his or her magickal work or far too inexperienced to be working Liber O?
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@he atlas itch said
"Thanks for both of your replies.
Shunyata - how does your description apply to a scenario where the aspirant suddenly becomes aware of Qlippothic energies coming at him via others? And others seem intent on projecting these Qlippothic aspects onto him whereas the aspirant feels nothing has changed inside himself? Is it a sign that the aspirant is being far too ambitious in his or her magical work or far too inexperienced to be working Liber O?"Your question goes to the heart of what it means to be an adept.
The Qlippoth manifest under the absence of conscious awareness. When Tiphareth is active then the manifestations of the self are observed by the adept and, if proper understanding is present, they are directed. When Tiphareth is passive, then consciousness is blown by the winds of whim.
Qlippothic energies are nearly always self serving. You will find that they nearly always indicate an upside down hierarchy on the tree. In the average person, their higher centers are made to serve their lower. Strength manifests as rage, mercy as weakness, sex as lust, all to serve the preservation of one’s insecurities, power games, etc.
The point of the K&C being the first and primary goal of any aspirant is that the attainment of Tiphareth indicates proper polarization of the tree where the lower centers are now made to serve the higher. Thus the symbolism of “every Sephirah is passive(negative) with regards to the Sephirah above it”. This is true for the adept, but not true for the average person off the street.
The initial struggle is then a struggle to maintain consciousness. Having led one’s whole life in a reactionary manner, letting the lower centers run the show, it takes a long time to build a habit of being conscious(making Tiphareth active).
And so to address your question, one’s own Qlippothic energies are delegated to their proper place when Tiphareth is active. At such a time, one need not worry at all about the energies of others, Qlippothic or otherwise. It is however easy for an unconscious person to fall victim to the mental projections of others.
Regarding liber O, it is a potent art, and a very important one. It would be difficult to say whether or not you’re ready for it, as I hardly know you, but it must be undertaken at some point.
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Shunyata - I am grateful for, and appreciate your insightful replies. Your observations seem on-target.
I note you refer to "training" to activate Tiphareth and that it appears to be an ongoing process for the adept to maintain his or her center in Tiphareth. I would be interested to hear specifics on this type of training - whether you refer to performing the Abramelin operation, Liber Samekh, invoking the sun via the Lesser Hexagram Ritual etc.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,
@he atlas itch said
"Shunyata - I am grateful for, and appreciate your insightful replies. Your observations seem on-target.
I note you refer to "training" to activate Tiphareth and that it appears to be an ongoing process for the adept to maintain his or her center in Tiphareth. I would be interested to hear specifics on this type of training - whether you refer to performing the Abramelin operation, Liber Samekh, invoking the sun via the Lesser Hexagram Ritual etc."
Making Tiphareth active is an ongoing process. Rituals are good, even daily rituals, but the path is a moment to moment activity.
@Uncle AL, in his commentary on Chapter 1, Verse 37 said
"But all we say and do, however casually, adds up to more, far more, than our most strenuous Operations. "Take care of the pence, and the pounds will take care of themselves." Your daily drippings fill a bigger bucket than your geysers of magical effort."
Opening Tiphareth is a personal journey that involves confronting one’s personal issues. One’s journey from birth to initiation is usually paved with the building of habits that involve letting our passions rule us. Every person’s habits are different, but the progression of the path involves facing these behaviors and putting them into our service instead of letting them rule us.
One may be overbearing in personal relationships, another may let others walk all over them, another will dismiss other’s thoughts without giving them due course. Eating disorders, self-deprecation, self-aggrandizement, the list is endless, but the bottom line is that in most of their personal interactions, the uninitiated have a habit to act with behavior that is very mechanical. Old habits, old behaviors get acted out without conscious thought. The opening of Tiphareth is the bringing of these behaviors into the realm of conscious awareness and either struggling against them or coming to terms with them.
The struggle against them is technically the work of Geburah, but it takes the awareness of Tiphareth to pave the way for the struggle that comes. These behaviors are acted out unconsciously and so simply being conscious of them on a moment to moment basis is a tremendous struggle in and of itself.
Liber 3 is a good beginning exercise for this work. It is actually prescribed to be started before the aspirant is aware of the things they would choose to be working on had they more of the path behind them, but just the habit of struggle is itself the real catalyst that awakens Tiphareth.
I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the struggle. One sets out to make a change and works a few minutes, hours even, then completely forgets the struggle. Hours pass, days even, then the will to change is remembered. One takes up the cross again, struggles a bit, forgets again. This is the flickering of the consciousness of Tiphareth.
It is a moment to moment effort to remain conscious.
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As I understand it, the idea is to work ones way back up the tree of life and to establish each sphere along the way.
one starts out on the ground, the whole tree busted to pieces, and each sphere holds certain types of pieces and a certain formula for arranging the piece, than one does not fully understand until the sphere is completely established in oneself.
The Qlippoth are the shattered pieces of the sphere, the elements that don't fit the puzzle, and thus are discarded. (Of course one sphere's Qlippoth may be another sphere's proper constituents, such than Malkuth is constructed out of what is cast out of Yesod, etc.
But to work with or take interest in the qlippoth is pointless, its only a distraction from the work of the sphere you are on. For example if you are trying to study to pass a physics exam, watching the local news is a distraction. To study or work with distractions out of some misguided notion that we must respect the inherent value of even the darkest forces, is a mis-understanding of the situation.
To work With the Qlippoth is to invite failure into your proper work, on the other hand if your focus is on the Qlippoth then your actual work will be a distraction and thus the work and the Qlippoth trade places, and your true effort is not Qlippoth works but rather the proper work of a different sphere than the one you claim to be attending to. As with one who attends to the gum on ones shoe while claiming to be interested in the opera on stage.
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I am sure those interested in working with the Qlippoth have their good reasons. It just seems the human condition itself is already quite mysterious and difficult to master, much less trying to consciously work with these Qlippothic energies. Regardless of whether one chooses to work with them or not, they come into play when travelling the path and thus require understanding of their role.
One thing I have learned from the Gurdjieff school is learning to control the expression of negativity. Excessively negatively thoughts and words are a sign of a weakness in one's being and therefore something to be controlled so that one acquires the strength to bear and endure all things. Another practise for strengthening one's being is learning to avoid lying and deception. Carrying out a magickal regime only amplifies and raises the stakes on any traits in oneself, bringing to the forefront any hidden self-deception (here I would draw an analogy between toxic energies of ordeals and subsequently discarded identities, dead skin, carapace that come with the development of an organism).
One aspect I feel I have neglected is meditating on a daily basis to acquire the rock steady concentration of mind so that when magickal currents do manifest, I am in control of the situation rather than vice versa - to be centered in the eye of the hurricane, so to speak.
Shunyata - thanks for the advice and recommendation on Liber 3. One thing I've felt strongly before is that consistent and incremental changes in lifestyle are far more important than one-off great magickal feats and Liber 3 is a good starting point in this respect.
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I think what you are not understanding is that the qlippoth are not an energy.
Each sphere has a virtue and a vice. A vice is the undevelopod state, its the base state, before a virtue has been cultivated. The Qlippoth is where you are at when you enter any sphere.
Gluttony is the natural state one learns and trains oneself in moderation of diet. Greed is the base state of a human, one does not work with the energies of greed, one learns to direct ones desire to acquire and everything for the sake of acquisition alone, to a virtue of knowing what is necessary to acquire for ones Will and what one does not need.