Religious Status of Thelema
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
"I'm not aware of anyone trying to register Thelema per se as a religion in Canada - certainly not in Ontario, where I live."
I'm an Ontarian as well (more specifically, I'm a citizen of the Nation's Capital). Pleased to make your acquaintance!
It may seem like an ambitious goal, but I would certainly like to try taking on the long and grueling task of lobbying for recognition as a religion. (True Will? Who knows. I haven't Attained fully yet)
I've been comparing the Wiccan Church of Canada's establishment, for example, as a religious entity against various Provincial and Federal regulations, and it would indeed be a very tasking effort... but I see it as being beneficial to Thelemites here.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in LVX,
-M -
93,
Otawa has always seemed to have a broad esoteric community, and I don't know why. Not that I'm complaining.
The WCC is registered as a religious body, but I don't think Wicca as a religion is registered. I'm not even sure you can 'register a religion' under Ontario or Canadian law. What would Hindus do, for example - could a few Shivaites and a group of Vishnaivas jointly register Hinduism? Do they have a common definition?
On a practical level, many OTO people I've met have what I'd call a libertarian spirituality. (I'm making very loose generalizations here). The TOT has a more psycho-spiritual focus to it, and there is less of a tendency to be concerned about socio-political specifics. But if the two groups came together to register the religion of Thelema under some commonly accepted principles ... what might a Typhonian feel about that?
Maybe you've dug into the legal situation more than I have. I looked at it a dozen years ago, and then, as I recall, you could only legally incorporate a specific body - there was no provision for getting the tenets of a faith acknowledged by the state, except in the common-law sense of long-term usage, as with Judaism or Roman Catholicism.
93 93/93,
EM
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@Maleficia said
"From what little I know of the American legal system, I do believe Thelema has become recognized as a religion south of my border, and from what I've been able to gather, the same does not hold true here."
As far as I know, there is no official way that a specific religion can be "recognized" by the U.S. government as a whole. (This is a wonderful thing, in my opinion!) If someone tried to implement such a system, I expect that First Amendment lawyers would be all over it in a heartbeat...
Now, specific parts and branches of the government probably have internal lists of religions for their own purposes. The military needs to classify its chaplains, the federal civil service needs to define work holidays, and so on. But this is a far cry from the government as a whole recognizing a religion.
This also says nothing about religous organizations, like OTO and the like. These are a matter for the civil courts, nonprofit corporate law, etc.
Steve
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
"Now, specific parts and branches of the government probably have internal lists of religions for their own purposes. The military needs to classify its chaplains, the federal civil service needs to define work holidays, and so on. But this is a far cry from the government as a whole recognizing a religion."
Interesting. This is similar to what I've been able to find regarding Canadian law, both on the Federal and Provincial stage. The Provinces have different requirements for incorporating as a religious body. On the Federal level, there are varying regulations governing who may register as a charity for religious purposes... The Canada Revenue Agency (our equivalent of the IRS), as well as the military have different requirements as well. It's quite the legal mess!
"Maybe you've dug into the legal situation more than I have. I looked at it a dozen years ago, and then, as I recall, you could only legally incorporate a specific body - there was no provision for getting the tenets of a faith acknowledged by the state, except in the common-law sense of long-term usage, as with Judaism or Roman Catholicism."
This appears to hold true from what I've been able to find. My guess is that a given body would, by default, be "recognized" on the federal level if it was to fulfill the different requirements and register in all provinces.
In Alberta, for example, an organization may obtain religious status by registering under the Religious Societies' Land Act, which is far more lenient in what it accepts as a "religious society" than, say, Ontario's Religious Organizations' Lands Act, which stipulates that a religious organization must be "organized for the advancement of and for the conduct of worship, services or rites of the Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Baha'i, Longhouse Indian, Sikh, Unitarian or Zoroastrian faith, or a subdivision or denomination thereof".
I have no idea why Ontario limits it to the aforementioned faith groups.
Then there's the "Memorandum of Requirements for Recognizing a New Denomination", which governs what organizations in Ontario may register as a religious entity for the purpose of conducting marriage ceremonies legally.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in LVX,
-M -
93,
"Ontario's Religious Organizations' Lands Act, which stipulates that a religious organization must be "organized for the advancement of and for the conduct of worship, services or rites of the Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Baha'i, Longhouse Indian, Sikh, Unitarian or Zoroastrian faith, or a subdivision or denomination thereof".
I have no idea why Ontario limits it to the aforementioned faith groups. "
I think we should check off "all of the above" and see what they do.
I have to admit that having the state confer legitimacy on my belief system (nationally or through one of its regional subdivisions), is not a major priority for me. One paradox it would have to handle is that, the further into Thelema you go, the more differentiated from other Thelemites your actual beliefs are likely to become.
93 93/93,
EM
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
"I think we should check off "all of the above" and see what they do."
Ha! That might actually be worthwhile, if only to see how they would react.
"One paradox it would have to handle is that, the further into Thelema you go, the more differentiated from other Thelemites your actual beliefs are likely to become."
Indeed, hence the difficulty inherent in having it recognized in the first place. In a way, I would like to push the proverbial envelope by having Thelema granted official religious status to see what my employer would say if, for example, I requested time off with pay in order to go through Ritual VIII.
Kidding aside, though, I recognize why some would not have this on their list of priorities. Crowley himself warned against calling Thelema a religion, but on the other hand, he wrote the Gnostic Mass to satisfy certain individuals' need for the religious aspect. Religious status would have its positives and negatives, as with anything.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in LVX,
-M* -
By contrast, the UK has signed up to, and implemented, the European Convention on Human Rights and no governmental or publicly-funded body can discriminate on the basis of religion. But only the Church of England, the Church of Scotland and the Church in Wales can carry out marriages without a registrar.
Here it is a matter for Thelemites to establish a body for the promotion of the religion of Thelema, which would be charitable. Only if it had an income of over £5,000 a year would it have to register, which would get interesting. Th McOTO here is registered as a for-profit company.
The authorities are not allowed to decide what is not is not a religion, but there must be a public benefit, which is why the "Church" of Scientology is not considered charitable. I am not sure what the various lineages of the EGC have done.
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@Steven Cranmer said
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As far as I know, there is no official way that a specific religion can be "recognized" by the U.S. government as a whole. (This is a wonderful thing, in my opinion!) If someone tried to implement such a system, I expect that First Amendment lawyers would be all over it in a heartbeat..."501(c)3 incorporation as a Religious entity is the de facto means of doing this. Without such an incorporation First Amendment Rights may not be recognized for a movement or may be difficult to assert.
Simply put a religion without a recognized Church or Churches of some sort may find the free exercise of religion difficult and discrimination against them acceptable.
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93,
No, No, No.
AC would not be impressed.
Remember what he said in Magick Without Tears - the root of the word Religion in latin means piety - ie submitting to the will of another rather than ones own. Most unthelemic!
To quote AC - "The word does not occur in The Book of the Law".
93 93/93
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Nonsense. Stars align all the Time.
The Holy Family is Within You.
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@Serpentarius said
"93,
No, No, No.
AC would not be impressed.
Remember what he said in Magick Without Tears - the root of the word Religion in latin means piety - ie submitting to the will of another rather than ones own. Most unthelemic!
To quote AC - "The word does not occur in The Book of the Law".
93 93/93"
Crowley wrote of Thelema as a religion (Confessions ch.49 for example) just as often as he criticized the idea of Thelema as a religion (Magick Without Tears, although he is 'agnostic' on the subject in there).
IAO131
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@Serpentarius said
"93,
To quote AC - "The word does not occur in The Book of the Law".93 93/93"
Neither does the word "internet".
And Re Ligio in Latin has nothing to do with piety but the following of custom, which was formal, not pious, in Rome.