Death of someone close
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@Persephone said
"I would like to get a copy of the requiem if possible."
Although this is performed by the Order as a religious service for those both within and without the Order, the ritual itself isn't distributed below our Second Order. Sorry.
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@Froclown said
"Their is no more need to grieve over a death than to grieve over a sunset.
Their is to be NO DEATH, NO SORROW, and NO REGRET in thelema."
I agree completely with this as stated. It just doesn't go far enough.
There are normal and important physical, emotional, and other psychological needs for release. These need to be passed through and completed. The error is in regarding it as sorrowful for the deceased.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Persephone said
"I would like to get a copy of the requiem if possible."Although this is performed by the Order as a religious service for those both within and without the Order, the ritual itself isn't distributed below our Second Order. Sorry."
Okay, no problem, I misunderstood.
Persephone -
Same issue here.
The death of my father recently came as a massive shock. He was larger than life figure, very much in touch with his Nietzschean "Will-to-Power" and we all thought he would outlive us. Strangely though there seems to be some "co-incidences" in the way he died - as though things had come full-circle in some way.
Anyway, the incident shook me beyond belief and I found myself asking questions about my own my mortality. Sometimes I think we just die and that's it. Game over. And I suppose being rather attached to myself at this stage that scares me a little.
I mean sure I have subjective evidence of the astral and even the afterlife. I even experienced visitations from my father after his death. (though I'm not particularly psychic I'm slightly sensitive).
Strangely though, his visitations stopped after around 6 weeks, which correlates with the Tibetan Book of Living and dying (as the deceased moves into a different bardo or something). The last time I felt his "presence" it was as though he'd come to say goodbye, this was the last he would be able to come this far "down the planes". I'm not sure if I read about moving into a a new "bardo" before or after this happened, so I have no "scientific" evidence. The doubt always returns though - perhaps these are just "shells" or emotional "imprints" or even just wishful thinking - how do we know they are "conscious entities", so to speak?
Anyway, don't mean to depress anyone. Sometimes, I can be a little over the top with skepticism - perhaps I should balance it out with the "irrational" so to speak. Perhaps I make the mistake of using the physical as my yardstick for the other planes. After all, life is about living, though I would agree that's one's psychic landscape is completely shaken up and in a sense that's part of one's life and something that needs to be worked through.
I sometimes wonder if this is not a good way to cultivate "non-attachment", in that when we reach the Abyss we will be ready to cross over with free abandon? I have managed to cultivate a semblance of "letting go" in recent times.
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I am very sorry for your loss. I agree, loss of a parent is traumatic especially if it happens suddenly. From what you say it sounds like he made the adjustment.
I used to try to prove things too, I finally gave up. Back in college, I tried to get objective proof of telepathy between living people, it may sound trivial. I found that whatever did happen, it was never enough proof for those who had the 'scientific' point of view. I have a friend who used to do psychic experiments under laboratory conditions. This never persuaded the scientists either. So I decided that it doesn't matter, what counts is what I experienced myself. There will always be people who cannot be convinced of anything that their five senses don't tell them. That is their loss. I guess the best thing you can do is to read what you are drawn to, whatever helps. In my case this time I am reading alot of Dion Fortune, I like her explanations of karma that she weaves into her fiction. I started with The Secrets of Dr. Taverner and now I'm on to some of the novela. They are not Pulitzer Prize winning fiction but there's alot of good things in them. I hope you start to feel better soon. Persephone -
93, Persephone.
In terms of "empirical testing" sometimes I wish some serious occultists would take on the infamous James Randy! In terms of discarnate intelligence however, Crowley's discusses the issue of analyzing whether "entities" are of a "foreign" nature to one's consciousness. I think he uses this argument with regard to Aiwass being praetor-natural rather than some aspect of his subconscious.
Now with regards to my father's death the "visions" I had of him certainly had qualities that were foreign in terms of my expectation. For example at that time in my life I had little regard for concepts of the HGA being more interested in Buddhist philosophy and Nihilism and I had long forgotten the New Age idea of "guides" however in mys first "vision" he was accompanied by an angel and strangely one that looked more like it stepped out of a medieval Christian artwork than the kinds of angels that Hollywood depicts. He was also throwing roses at me.
Now I wouldn't say that those elements were completely foreign to my consciousness in the sense that they would be unconceivable but they were decidedly foreign in terms of my expectations. I suppose I imagined that I'd see him on some beach scene with a golden halo or something but instead I get Catholic angels. Aside from that the vision had a rather strange quality instead of being "behind my eyelids" so to speak, it was as though it occurred in a specific location in 3D space, elevated to my left and almost "distant"....rather unusual from my experience.
Anyway, these are rather minor..there were some other incidents that seemed rather contrary to my expectations as well. I suppose we can never really know - perhaps I whole concept of reality is so flawed that we constantly compare apples to bannanas!
Anyway it is rather interesting with regards to empiricism and I suppose it has relevance to Thelema in terms of Crowley's claim of the authorship of Liber AL. If Aiwass is a praetor-natural intelligence then he probably must have been incarnate at some time, so that should be an indiction of some persistence of consciousness or intelligence after death.
Crowley also mentions the use of Necromancy - I think it was to call up discarnate members of the A.A in the absence of an incarnate one if one needs their guidance. But then of course these could just be sourced from the Akasha - I think the real acid test would be whether discarnate entities demonstrate the ability to make "decisions" rather than being "automatons" that just rattle off information....but then in a sense I don't really know what that means.
It is rather curious that Crowley doesn't delve deeply into the subject though he did write a poem about death and speaks of "dissolution into Nuit". Regardless, is it probably my skewed and limited faculties of perception that bring me suffering! Although tomorrow is my father's birthday I should probably shake myself out of this self-inflicted self-pity!
Agape.
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I've heard that mourning traps the soul in the lower astral and therefore buddhists spread joy when one dies. Never mourn.
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ModernPrimitive, I would love to see Randi taken down a peg, preferably on national TV. I made the mistake of looking at his website and my blood pressure went up 10 points-:) But I don't think science has come that far although it may in the future. What was laughed at ten years ago is being taken seriously today.
For what its worth, I got a very good feeling when reading your vision of your father with the angel, throwing roses. Thanks for sharing.
Persephone -
@Persephone said
"ModernPrimitive, I would love to see Randi taken down a peg, "
It's funny that his million dollar prize is a scam.
www.skepticalinvestigations.org/exam/Sean_Randichallenge.htm
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Thanks Persephone and Modest. Good words.
JNV33, not to derail but I actually approached Randi with a proposed design for the challenge...although it wasn't an official application Kramer said he thought it was a good design and that I should apply.
The basic idea was to do an "on-off" energy transfer with many repetitions rather than trying complex "mental" telepathy with shapes, number, words etc, so the recipient just has to identify whether the sender is sending energy or not - I have a bit of reiki training so that was going to be the technique. Anyway to cut a long story short, my friend who's pretty psychic pulled out in the end. I guess it wasn't meant to be but it still niggles me.
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