Past lives and Karma
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93, This is an area that isn't written or talked about much, probably because it is entirely personal. I have known some Thelemites who do not believe in reincarnation, my questions are directed to those who do.
Has anyone found that by examining their past lives they have solved a deep-seated problem and then were able to move on in their magical Work much easier? Has anyone hit a dead end and not been able to resolve something that you believe to be karmic?
I don't expect you to write about very personal issues, but in general, does this ring a bell with anyone? For myself, I can say that it took years to solve something, and it was a very profound experience when I did, although some parts were not pleasant. Also I found that it helped very much to have at least one person who will listen objectively and be supportive.
In the last few months I have been reading Dion Fortune, which I mentioned in other posts. I find that she has a lot of good information on these issues, both in her novels and some of her non-fiction books.
93 93/93 Persephone -
@Persephone said
"Has anyone found that by examining their past lives they have solved a deep-seated problem and then were able to move on in their magical Work much easier?"
For the most part, I've gained information, had a number of things fall into perspective, etc. Kinda like already understanding yourself and then being told about an event in infancy you'd forgotten, and it snaps into understanding. And a fair bit of humor.
But something that came to light in 1979, the second time I met Phyllis Seckler (the first time I was up at her house in Dublin)... she detected a block in me, a character pattern that could interfere with the public unfolding of my current life's dharma. Some past life exploration exposed an occassion of being burned at the stake, which in turn opened up a particular life around 1600 (and that life in general explained a very great deal!). By making this conscious (and several years of work, and mindfulness about the incident at critical junctures), I was able to get past the specific barrier.
There was a later event about 300 years later that could have had the same effect, but from the point of view of personal shame. This was more of an interesting, somewhat humorous, "Oh, yeah, that thing!" recollection. By the time I got this memory, I'd already been indirectly confronting it, and (as a minor theme) living my life in a way to overcome both societal prejudice and the personal stigma attached to that shame.
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Thank you for relating your experiences. Wow, that 1600s life must have been hard to confront. Wouold you say that those traumatic events are the ones we need to know about, but understandably, the ones that we hide from? In my case, there was a tragic situation that I finally was forced to confront and I'm still assimilating it. Thanks again, Persephone
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@Jim Eshelman said
" Some past life exploration exposed an occassion of being burned at the stake, which in turn opened up a particular life around 1600 (and that life in general explained a very great deal!). By making this conscious (and several years of work, and mindfulness about the incident at critical junctures), I was able to get past the specific barrier."
Jim this should be regarded as a completely honest inquiry; Do you really believe you were incarnated in the 1600's? What extraordinary evidence assures you of this? such that you are convinced this is unrelated to expectations and preconceived notions of re-incarnation. This is a very critical topic for me because the subject of re-incarnation may ultimately determine some crucial personal decisions for me about what type of effort to put into what areas.
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@Frater IamAi 1151 said
"Jim this should be regarded as a completely honest inquiry; Do you really believe you were incarnated in the 1600's?"
Yes. (And many other time periods for which I have more vivid and detailed memories than this.)
"What extraordinary evidence assures you of this? such that you are convinced this is unrelated to expectations and preconceived notions of re-incarnation. "
The evidence is direct personal experience - which, ultimately (for things outside the physical) is the only evidence we have for anything. Some of these experiences are as real and vivid to me as any memory in my present incarnation.
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@Persephone said
"93, This is an area that isn't written or talked about much, probably because it is entirely personal. I have known some Thelemites who do not believe in reincarnation, my questions are directed to those who do.
Has anyone found that by examining their past lives they have solved a deep-seated problem and then were able to move on in their magical Work much easier? Has anyone hit a dead end and not been able to resolve something that you believe to be karmic?
I don't expect you to write about very personal issues, but in general, does this ring a bell with anyone? For myself, I can say that it took years to solve something, and it was a very profound experience when I did, although some parts were not pleasant. Also I found that it helped very much to have at least one person who will listen objectively and be supportive.
In the last few months I have been reading Dion Fortune, which I mentioned in other posts. I find that she has a lot of good information on these issues, both in her novels and some of her non-fiction books.
93 93/93 Persephone"I'm not sure if my response falls into your category, but I had some issues of bodily pain resole when I dealt with some past life situations... by that I mean, relived past life events (whether real or imaginary) and saw the source of some bodily pain, and handled the original situation... the specific pain in my current body ceased.
Personally I believe that past lives are very important to handle. I have a personal idea that some garbage that is currently with me is from the past - believing in karma that crosses lifetimes.
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I believe reincarnation is the biggest illusion we want to believe. That being said i don't dismiss the idea of incarnating oneself into a physical body after "death" (Or that you have not had a "past life" though i wouldn't word it the same way). I'm away from home so i can't quote exactly what Hermes Trimegistus had to say on the "issue". The main thing is that the wording Reincarnation and the ideas around it is incomplete and misleading. From what i understand we all have 2 souls one being born when our physical bodies are born (more likely just before) and the other being a fragment of God Himself. That Fragment has formerly attached itself to a similar soul from an earlier time and can communicate that experience or memory with you. The purpose being to teach. You yourself are separate than the past live(s). You carry no karma from before because for you there was no before. Just because I believe you only have 1 life, doesn't mean you don't get a body in later Mansions or beyond; just that it is not physical. Or that you can't physically manifest yourself in the 1st Mansion (physical reality, or what I would call sensual reality) after you've past on...Its a delicate issue. I know for sure I don't have the answers to but i figured I'd share some thoughts on. I'm actually "on the fence" when it comes to this discussion. Same discussion a few months ago and i would be giving reasons why i believe in reincarnation (I too have had vivid detailed memories of what i believed then to be a past life). Now i feel reincarnation is incomplete and not true in its explanation.
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Alrah;
I understand what you're saying. And yes, if someone says they were Henry the Eighth, or Cleopatra, red flags go up. But again, this is a complex thing and there is no one-size-fits -all answer. I would think that, statistically, most of us would have had ordinary lives with alot of struggle and hardship.
I do believe that certain strong memories can carry over if karma has to be worked out. Whatever memories you, I, or others have are probably only there because of something that has to be looked at. Dion Fortune wrote about this in several of her short stories and novels. And of course, this presumes an openness to a spiritual life. It certainly isn't something that can be debated or explained rationally, so I don't even try. -
Well, that's what makes the most sense to me. But yes, a Crowley wannabe would challenging-:)
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You met one of them too?
Btw sorry if my answer didn't make sense, I just went to the dentist this AM so I'll blame the novacaine. -
@Jim Eshelman said
"By making this conscious (and several years of work, and mindfulness about the incident at critical junctures), I was able to get past the specific barrier."
Can you describe the techniques you used to dissolve the block arising from a past life?
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@he atlas itch said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"By making this conscious (and several years of work, and mindfulness about the incident at critical junctures), I was able to get past the specific barrier."Can you describe the techniques you used to dissolve the block arising from a past life?"
I was wondering the same thing. I have a lot of karmic baggage myself.
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Yes, I also would like to know. I am writing to get some things worked out, its a long process.
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my 2 cents is that consciousness unfolds and we're pretty much able to tap into a plethora of archetypes and experiences that life has experienced.
people generally misuse the term "karma" and other hindu concepts, which makes me wonder if reincarnation is the same as a past life experience, i think not... so its hard to pinpoint whats trying to be achieved when addressing the notions, in my case anyhoo.
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@anistara said
"so its hard to pinpoint whats trying to be achieved when addressing the notions"
Karma is simply the idea of cause and effect. Something happens that leaves an emotional imprint that then affects the person as they continue to grow and evolve. Everybody tends to circle around some unresolved issues in their life be it abuse, co-dependency, issues of abandonment, self-worth, betrayal etc.
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@he atlas itch said
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@anistara said
"so its hard to pinpoint whats trying to be achieved when addressing the notions"Karma is simply the idea of cause and effect. Something happens that leaves an emotional imprint that then affects the person as they continue to grow and evolve. Everybody tends to circle around some unresolved issues in their life be it abuse, co-dependency, issues of abandonment, self-worth, betrayal etc."
i disagree. i think thats a western idea put on an eastern philosophy. i don't think those issues really have a lot to do with karma in actuality. an example: i want to pick up a cup. i extend my arm and pick up the cup. that action is the karma. it's thought and action in that moment, not the accumulation thereof and its outcome.
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the atlas itch wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:
By making this conscious (and several years of work, and mindfulness about the incident at critical junctures), I was able to get past the specific barrier.Can you describe the techniques you used to dissolve the block arising from a past life?
I was wondering the same thing. I have a lot of karmic baggage myself."
just think backwards, Liber ThIShARB CMLXIII
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@anistara said
"i disagree. i think thats a western idea put on an eastern philosophy. i don't think those issues really have a lot to do with karma in actuality. an example: i want to pick up a cup. i extend my arm and pick up the cup. that action is the karma. it's thought and action in that moment, not the accumulation thereof and its outcome."
It’s correct that karma simply means “action”, but actions leave karmic traces that condition the mind, and from which future choices are made. The Buddhist term for the reactive mind is kunzhi namshe - and you might be surprised what accumulates there:
kunzhi namshe -- (tib: kun gzhi rnam shes, skrt: alaya vijnana) The kunzhi namshe is the basic consciousness of the individual. It is the "repository" or "storehouse" in which the karmic traces are stored, from which future, conditioned experience arises.
www.ligmincha.org/bon-buddhism/glossary-of-bon-buddhist-terms.html
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I'm reviving this thread in the hopes that Jim will share some of the techniques he used in overcoming blocks from previous incarnations.
One block that I feel is hindering my progress, and which I suspect is linked to a previous incarnation, is an absolute fear of taking magickal oaths - and oaths in particular. I've had this dread ever since I can remember and long before I encountered Crowley and magick. I take the magickal oath very seriously, and have not broken the ones I've taken so far, but the dread exists nonetheless.
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@he atlas itch said
"I'm reviving this thread in the hopes that Jim will share some of the techniques he used in overcoming blocks from previous incarnations. "
Hard to generalize... but, basically: Confront them, stay conscious, let them devour you, consciously choose the experience.
"One block that I feel is hindering my progress, and which I suspect is linked to a previous incarnation, is an absolute fear of taking magical oaths - and oaths in particular. I've had this dread ever since I can remember and long before I encountered Crowley and magick. I take the magical oath very seriously, and have not broken the ones I've taken so far, but the dread exists nonetheless."
If something isn't going to cause you harm (in the conventional sense of that phrase), then open yourself to doing it. Don't stick your hand in open fire, don't drink poison, don't stand on the train tracks until the train runs you over - but, for other kinds of things, just pass through it - consciously, vulnerably, surrenderingly.
Another thing you can do is go through this in imagination in a deep meditative state. It is highly likely that, in a prior life, you took such an oath and either (1) the circumstances were arranged to be a frightening event or (2) you paid horribly for it. Then isn't now. But stream of consciousness in the meditation, as you (over and over again if necessary) see yourself going through this kind of event will give you the feeling, if not the actual facts, of the experience.