Being a Thelemite Man
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I have seen much debate going on as to the role of women in Thelema, yet not a single apparent male has truly defined the so called masculine role in Thelema and Magick. Honestly guys, it's quite pathetic that so much time is spent criticizing the roles that "men" perceive that women ought to play that I really want to hear what roles a man ought to play.
Now, this thread is not meant to be a source of trolling or starting a gender war, merely a chance for some real introspection. I would really like to here some honest thoughts and ideas as to the equipment you have been endowed with and how you believe that defines your True Will.
I guess I will cast the die now saying that I am watching a "comedy" humorlessly as the whole premise of the jokes is based around endowment, sexual status (virgin or spoiled), and strict gender roles (i.e. women are illogical emotion driven beings who are only as useful as the man who courts them, and men are as grand as the size of their penis and sexual prowess). Truly I am forcing myself to watch this trash that I can continue identifying these false stigmas impressed by the culture. In truth, I never considered how male-egocentric the world-at-large actually is until I met my wife. This disease of gender roles can only be cured by awareness and critical self-analysis, I believe that every stigma that seeks to define and limit the place of women even more greatly limits the powers of men.
Any thoughts to share?
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@TheSilent1 said
"I have seen much debate going on as to the role of women in Thelema, yet not a single apparent male has truly defined the so called masculine role in Thelema and Magick."
In a sense I have, because my view is exactly the same as in the other threads: Gender is not a basis for role determinmation. Period.
That is: It might happen to be for a given person, but it isn't inherently so (and generally isn't so).
But, while it isn't a basis for role determination, I do think being male presents us with one of the most difficult tasks of the New Aeon: Let Osiris die and stay dead! Specifically, to dismantle (first within ourselves, then outward into society) pretty much every single historic idea of "what it means to be a man." Let it go. Don't be trapped by it. Break free of it. - And, as usual when breaking out of entrenched molds, that means initially to be a rabid foe of them, tearing them down.
I know this "banishing" won't be finished in my lifetime, but we might as well get a solid start on it! (And each of us can finish it in our own lives.)
Since, as men, we still have most of the power in the world (de facto), it puts the primary responsibility on us to start and carryt through the change.
"Honestly guys, it's quite pathetic that so much time is spent criticizing the roles that "men" perceive that women ought to play that I really want to hear what roles a man ought to play."
Whatever is inherent to them as individuals. That is, (1) discover your True Will, then (2) do it and nothing else.
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Love the Subject line: immediate association with one of the toughest bits of Crowley that I'm still wrestling with:
"Male-female, quintessential, one,
Man-being veiled in woman-form."Man and Being vs Woman and Form
(or Male-Chokmah vs Woman-Binah)Even these dichotomies seem to perpetuate male-centricity to me. Even having Chokmah be 2 and Binah coming "after" it as 3... perpetuates it to my mind.
This is stuff I wrestle with in the system - don't have an answer - just thoughts to share.
Anyway thanks for speaking up.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@TheSilent1 said
"I have seen much debate going on as to the role of women in Thelema, yet not a single apparent male has truly defined the so called masculine role in Thelema and Magick."In a sense I have, because my view is exactly the same as in the other threads: Gender is not a basis for role determinmation. Period."
Sorry, Jim I wasn't neglecting your input on the issues on the previous thread, I should have put: "Save for Jim and a couple of others"
.I agree wholeheartedly with your view-point: Let us rend this corpse before us and derive strength, intellectual sustenance, and much need discernment from feasting upon it's flesh.
I have to confess I'm playing devil's advocate by drawing lines in the sand of gender, but I think that it might cause some interesting scripts to come to the surface. Exposing superficial scripts can allow for insight and give the chance to start reprogramming the Meta-scripts that rule the thought process, thereby, increasing the capacity for understanding.
72
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I think it will incite, er I mean inspire, some worthy discussion.
(Possibly I should have sat out a while.)
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@TheSilent1 said
"I have seen much debate going on as to the role of women in Thelema, yet not a single apparent male has truly defined the so called masculine role in Thelema and Magick. Honestly guys, it's quite pathetic that so much time is spent criticizing the roles that "men" perceive that women ought to play that I really want to hear what roles a man ought to play.
"Could you give some examples of what you are talking about in order to be more clear in your point? The vast majority of discussion here is by males, for males, about males, etc. probably because the membership is primarily male. The rare discussion about the female 'role' is often started by females and/or fed and perpetuated by females with the occasional male input consistent with the ratio of male to female membership here.
Both are valid and interesting and I fail to see anything 'pathetic' at all in the male participation in a discussion generated by the females any more than their participation in the discussions by and about the male aspect.
"yet not a single apparent male has truly defined the so called masculine role in Thelema and Magick"
Maybe because no one thought much about whether there was one?...?
If you would like to propose some sort of "role", I say great, propose away!
How you work 'endowment' into all this is beyond me. I admit, I am slow but I can learn. If you would, please, examples can go a long way to clarify a point.
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Read the post entirely about attracting more women in thelema
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@TheSilent1 said
"Read the post entirely about attracting more women in thelema"
And the examples...?
(please be specific)
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Specifically the last three pages I can't cite specific examples my Internet is down and I am using my iPhone to entertain myself and start arguments on the Internet
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Okay. When your net access is back up I would appreciate some clarification.
So far on this thread, I have not seen anything about attracting more women into Thelema. (though I do recall it being discussed elsewhere)
And for what its worth... I think the role of men in Thelema would be something along the lines of "do as thou wilt".
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@TheSilent1 said
"I have seen much debate going on as to the role of women in Thelema, yet not a single apparent male has truly defined the so called masculine role in Thelema and Magick. Honestly guys, it's quite pathetic that so much time is spent criticizing the roles that "men" perceive that women ought to play that I really want to hear what roles a man ought to play."
Didn't we try that last Aeon? Maybe we just shouldn't be telling people what their roles should or shouldn't be any more?
I'd like to leave it to every Star to decide that for themselves.
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@TheSilent1 said
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I have to confess I'm playing devil's advocate by drawing lines in the sand of gender, but I think that it might cause some interesting scripts to come to the surface. Exposing superficial scripts can allow for insight and give the chance to start reprogramming the Meta-scripts that rule the thought process, thereby, increasing the capacity for understanding.72"
It seems to me that the scripts are the problem. It starts with
"you're a woman/man; you should do this"
and ends with
"you're a citizen; you should think this"
It's the categories that are the problem. Redefining them alleviates the symptoms, but doesn't cure the disease.
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@Labyrinthus said
"So far on this thread, I have not seen anything about attracting more women into Thelema. (though I do recall it being discussed elsewhere)"
Stopping the penis-measuring contests would be a better start.
@Labyrinthus said
"And for what its worth... I think the role of men in Thelema would be something along the lines of "do as thou wilt".
"Absolutely. Add that it should be "Do what thou wilt" for every man and every woman and you're sold