Babalon
-
I am unclear on the ultimate goal of crossing the abyss. Is pouring oneself into the grail of babalon the same thing as the Buddhist idea of dissolution of self? If so, how does this fit with the very Thelemic concept of individuality and being a self contained star with it's own path? Does this only apply to certain levels, or is the thelemic view that one always remains an individual unit-star, even after "pouring oneself into the grail?"
LLLL,
David -
Crossing the abyss is something that an adept becomes after attaining adepthood. But only a small portion of adepts cross the abyss during the same incarnation.
By the way, stars aren't self-contained, and the very Thelemic idea of individuality isn't only one point of view. From another point of view, each individual is inseparable from the whole.
-
@DavidH said
"I am unclear on the ultimate goal of crossing the abyss. Is pouring oneself into the grail of babalon the same thing as the Buddhist idea of dissolution of self? If so, how does this fit with the very Thelemic concept of individuality and being a self contained star with it's own path? Does this only apply to certain levels, or is the thelemic view that one always remains an individual unit-star, even after "pouring oneself into the grail?"
LLLL,
David"The thing that's the individual unit star isn't the you you think you are now, i.e. David. It's the energy that animates David (or rather, the energy that animates the David-making process, the Ahamkara), the creative/destructive energy that shines *through *David, that comes out from "inside" you and shines on the world, producing identifiably David-style art, business, play, etc.
Not to speak out of turn, but my understanding FWIW is that unlike "normal" mystical experiences in which one has a glimpse of being THAT - i.e. of being God, or a little chip of God - and then reverts back to feeling oneself to be David (or in my case, George
) at some point, Crossing the Abyss is a change in perspective whereby the shift to being THAT is permanent, and rather than being David who has episodes of being God, one feels oneself permanently situated in being God, who is having an episode of being David (as it were!).There is (and logically can only be) only one mystical insight, the difference is just in terms of comprehensiveness and permanence - not of the experience itself (e.g. the bliss, etc.), but of the understanding that produces the experience.
IOW Crossing the Abyss is a pretty "big" thing, easily construable (by others) as insanity - a *permanent *shift in where the bundle of energies that you are seeks its identity. The only difference between that and the trope of the lunatic in the asylum who thinks he's Jesus is that it's a kind of *functioning *insanity (functioning because of all the work that went into building *momentum *as you worked your way through the Grades up the Tree, knitting yourself an integrated personality, a kingly, powerful, balanced, intelligent, loving, intuitive being).
-
@DavidH said
"I am unclear on the ultimate goal of crossing the abyss. Is pouring oneself into the grail of babalon the same thing as the Buddhist idea of dissolution of self? If so, how does this fit with the very Thelemic concept of individuality and being a self contained star with it's own path? Does this only apply to certain levels, or is the thelemic view that one always remains an individual unit-star, even after "pouring oneself into the grail?""
There are similarities to the Buddhist idea. I'd dislike saying they are the same, since Buddhism, to begin with, doesn't accept the concept of an ultimate self, and, at least up to Kether (Hadit), Thelema certainly does.
Crossing the Abyss at least includes the ideas of the shedding of everything extraneous to the singular idea of self (which, therefore, appears to be surrendering everything), and having the unreserved losing of that remaining iota to a single devotion. But having that sort of analysis in mind while doing it seems rather alien to the entire experience.
I'm not sure BTW that "losing" oneself is as accurate a word choice as "loosing" oneself; but, again, there is no subject sense of oneself in one's pure going.
It isn't "lost in space" but, rather, "lost to space," in the sense of "totally given to space."
In writing Visions & Voices, I had to say something about Crowley's crossing the abyss on the first page without getting too deep into it (and then came back later). I ended up writing the following: "In brief, the Abyss is the immeasurable gulf between human and divine consciousness. By this step, Crowley shifted from a human being with occasional superconsciousness experiences, to a superconscious being having human experiences."
But I think that isn't a good answer to the particular question you asked. I later wrote several sub-chapters of the introduction leading up to two or three pages discussing it more fully.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be thew whole of the Law.
Firstly, I think we can all agree that Tiphareth, upon the Tree of Life, is the point in which one should attain the K&C of ones H.G.A. - From there, we are at our most as far as the 'Solar Phallic' AHA experience is concerned.
This is generally the stopping point for most practitioners, as now they will be moving further away from the Solar Logos.If working the tree, we still have to cover the rest of the paths, leading up to Chesed- (7)=[4], or Adeptus Exemptus.
At this point, one must be stripped of ALL. (H.G.A.), Ego, and is literally self annihilation.
Upon crossing the Abyss, one ends up in Binah, and is re-united with their H.G.A. There is now a knowing that the Adept and the H.G.A. were one to begin with. This is it in a nut shell. Although there are Rituals, and Formulae for those in that truly have crossed the Abyss that are necessary for the development of ones newly found powers operating within the Supernal Triad. Everything is flipped. (8)=[3] is given to (9)=[2], and vice versa.
In the tradition that I come from, a partner is needed to create the 'Child'. (Enough said about this).
Inner work can be utilized to accomplish the goal of K and C of ones H.G.A. (Up to Adeptus Minor). This can be accomplished by working the paths and spheres of the Tree of life through inner work as well as outer initiation.
(Liber Samekh being very useful I have found:-)Secondly, working the Aethyrs will assist one (If ready) in crossing the abyss, or according to the Aethyrs, the Aethyr of ZAX, where CORONZON resides.
There is much more to this subject, but in a nut shell, this is it.
-
Commentaries on the Holy Books is great for assisting, or at least providing some instruction on attaining the grade of (5)=[6].
-
The Vision and the Voice with commentaries and other papers helps in the same way but for crossing the abyss, and attaining the grade of (8)=[3], or Master of the Temple.
As Jim stated- In my own words, one now realizes that they are Spiritual beings having a human experience, not human beings having spiritual experiences. Being in the world, but not of it. This is not to say that we cannot operate in the lower spheres if need be.
Keep in mind that the A.:A:. requires that each Adeptus Exemptus (7)=[4] publish an original thesis on the universe. This was accomplished in a past life of Crowley's in relation to Eliphas Levi, but then was truly confirmed as a (7)=[4] in the production of the book 4.
Liber 415 confirmed Crowley's original teachings of the O.T.O. in which he was fully initiated in 1912.
Supposedly it is a hybrid Liber, as it's magickal techniques pertain to both the grade of (6)=[5] - Adeptus Major in the A.'.A.'. and the IXth and XIth Degree's of the O.T.O. and for this reason belongs in the literature of both Orders whose systems closely intersect at this grade and degree in relation to magickal technique.I highly recommend the study of these two books before mentioned, as well as James Eshelman's book "The Mystical and Magical System of the A.'.A.'. for a step by step A.'.A.'. curriculum.
Lastly, as a disclaimer of a sort, by no means am I referencing that the O.T.O. and the A.'.A.'. are of the same Order.
Love is the law, Love under will.
Tau 414
James Cruz
Albuquerque, NM -
-
<sigh> Already wandering from the original question. Loop it back, gang.
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"There are similarities to the Buddhist idea. I'd dislike saying they are the same, since Buddhism, to begin with, doesn't accept the concept of an ultimate self, and, at least up to Kether (Hadit), Thelema certainly does."
93 Jim,
How does this work with Binah being the "place" where one pours their entirety to the grail? If this happens at Binah, how can the concept of ultimate self continue "at least up to Kether?"
93 93/93
David -
It's a mystery.
But, to make an effort at talking about it reasonably: Giving the whole of oneself to a thing does not mean that one ceases to be.
Of the Ipsissimus it is written, "his being is entirely free from internal or external necessity." This does not, however, deny his (or her) being. Quite the contrary.
Of the Master of the Temple, One Star in Sight says, "The essential Attainment is the perfect annihilation of that personality which limits and oppresses his true self." Note the distinction between "personality" and "true self," and what is said about each.
-
Ah hah!That is what I've been looking for for years! In both cases they do not speak of the annihilation of separate being into a whole (like in Buddhism), only of personality. In these examples they could stay as individual stars (even if particular points in the whole), only in true perfect form having given up all personality and any fragments that were not part of the true self.
LLLL
Dave -
There were times where my consciousness would shift up an octave and I'd have to maintain psychological resolve because the new awareness was such a stark contrast to my previously held perspectives. The thing that I reminded myself is that nothing changed but my perception.