On Buddhism
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if I wasn't Thelemite, I would be a Buddhist.
I see Budhism as essentially about this: cast off all beliefs and experience God/Ultimate Reality directly.
(look at the mahasatipatthana meditation for example) -
@seekinghga said
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Sorry, but as a Christian, Buddhism to me is a mistaken philosophy and its conclusions about life, God, and reality are too biased by brain manipulation to be taken as guidance for what is real and what isn't. "You may want to look into St John of the Cross's doctrine of the Assent of Mount Carmel!
A Christian doctrine by a Christian saint and mystic that is all but identical with the concept of egolessness in Buddhism.I could easily draw similar connections to notions in Thelema, specifically having to do with the Cup of Our Lady Babylon being filled with the Blood of the Saints. The adept being able to pass the Abyss, transcend his ego, because he poured every drop of his blood into her cup to become no-one.
These three concepts, while not exactly the same, have a lot in common. The one thing you seem to focus on as a difference is maybe not what distinguishes the three points of view, except that institutional Christianity is more than happy that its adherents not have their own mystical experiences. Thelema and Buddhism on the other hand are both interested in helping every one experience a larger reality by what you call 'brain manipulation,' though I think it is a lot more complicated than simply messing with brain function.
Regardless, that's some trick—stopping the transformations of the mind stuff, and forms the basic idea of all mystical practice, even Christian practice, as far as I understand it.
Love and Will
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@RobertAllen said
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@seekinghga said
"Regardless, that's some trick—stopping the transformations of the mind stuff, and forms the basic idea of all mystical practice, even Christian practice, as far as I understand it."
"Yes. Patanjali's definition of Yoga as, "The restraining of the mindsubstance (chitta) from assuming various forms or modifications (vrittis)." And hardly different from, say, Molinos.
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@seekinghga said
"Buddha's trick was teaching how to use meditation to shut down the brain's sense of self center to achieve the egoless state that according to Buddhism is the highest one for human beings. I say that purposely disabling a major brain function to arrive at a philosophy of life based on physically depriving the brain of its sense of self is one of the worst illusions human beings ever created, mistaking a single brain state as superior to the normal multiple brain states needed for existence in complex society. Yes, the transference of mental energy from the disabled sense of self center to the frontal lobes does give rise to higher cognition and even pleasurable feelings of bliss in an oceanic consciousness but it is still just an artificially arrived at brain state, a physically based mentality and illusion no different in kind from taking drugs to tranquilize one's consciousness to avoid psychic pain, the pain of attachment to things. Buddhism glorifies achieving non-attachment but does this by creating a literal hole in the head by shutting down the brain's sense of self center. This hole then seems to be projected outward in Buddhist philosophy to include the universe as a "Void" and nothingness, a virtually meaningless existence and of course, no God, because it takes an ego to experience God consciousness just as it takes an ego to create novelty which is why truly Buddhist societies lag far behind the rest of the world in social development. They are content with the way things are.
Sorry, but as a Christian, Buddhism to me is a mistaken philosophy and its conclusions about life, God, and reality are too biased by brain manipulation to be taken as guidance for what is real and what isn't.
I received this in response to a post on another forum regarding Buddhist theory. I am not looking for "come backs" or anything like that. I just realized that Crowley was all about balancing each thought with its opposite. This "opposite" has struck a chord within me and I wanted to see if anyone here has anything to say about it."
I'd say the premise regarding Buddha's "trick" is a totally flawed interpretation of Theravada only.
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@Redd Fezz said
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@seekinghga said
"I'd say the premise regarding Buddha's "trick" is a totally flawed interpretation of Theravada only."
"Can you add more?
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@seekinghga said
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@Redd Fezz said
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@seekinghga said
"I'd say the premise regarding Buddha's "trick" is a totally flawed interpretation of Theravada only."
"Can you add more?"
I wouldn't think it would be necessary. The way this person has described the supposedly "Buddhist" perspective of no-self is obviously that of someone who read very little and didn't understand what he read. The Buddha did not create a "hole in his head" whereby he was no longer able to perceive ordinary reality. All descriptions of the Buddha's teachings are highly intelligent down to the last detail and very much in touch with the ordinary world of unenlightened beings. It is obvious this person only has limited knowledge of Theravada because he refers to "bliss and oceanic consciousness," which indicates a passing familiarity with Theravadin meditation techniques, but lack of understanding.
He also says "this hole then seems to be projected outward in Buddhist philosophy to include the universe as a "Void" and nothingness, a virtually meaningless existence..."
Pardon the interruption, has this person figured out the meaning of life? Also, note the keyword seems. Correct choice of word for this person to use because his interpretation is not correct. The void is not nothingness.
"...and of course, no God, because it takes an ego to experience God consciousness just as it takes an ego to create novelty..."
He has no idea what understanding of egolessness means. He compares it to having a hole in your head and drugging yourself into a coma or something.
"...which is why truly Buddhist societies lag far behind the rest of the world in social development. They are content with the way things are."
Right... like India or Japan or China where they are taking all our jobs and competing heavily for worldly goods.
Please Note: I made some serious typos before such as the omission of the word "not" which as you can imagine utterly changes the meaning.
Suggested Reading
If you want to see where the case is made in the pali canon for Mahayana Buddhism (second turning of the wheel), check out "Echoes From An Empty Sky" which discusses the doctrine of two truths. -
@Redd Fezz said
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I wouldn't think it would be necessary. "Nonetheless, I'm now certainly glad I asked.
"The way this person has described the supposedly "Buddhist" perspective of no-self is obviously that of someone who read very little and didn't understand what he read. The Buddha did not create a "hole in his head" whereby he was no longer able to perceive ordinary reality. All descriptions of the Buddha's teachings are highly intelligent down to the last detail and very much in touch with the ordinary world of unenlightened beings. It is obvious this person only has limited knowledge of Theravada because he refers to "bliss and oceanic consciousness," which indicates a passing familiarity with Theravadin meditation techniques, but lack of understanding.
He also says "this hole then seems to be projected outward in Buddhist philosophy to include the universe as a "Void" and nothingness, a virtually meaningless existence..."
Pardon the interruption, has this person figured out the meaning of life? Also, note the keyword seems. Correct choice of word for this person to use because his interpretation is not correct. The void is not nothingness.
"...and of course, no God, because it takes an ego to experience God consciousness just as it takes an ego to create novelty..."
He has no idea what understanding of egolessness means. He compares it to having a hole in your head and drugging yourself into a coma or something.
"...which is why truly Buddhist societies lag far behind the rest of the world in social development. They are content with the way things are."
Right... like India or Japan or China where they are taking all our jobs and competing heavily for worldly goods.
Please Note: I made some serious typos before such as the omission of the word "not" which as you can imagine utterly changes the meaning.
Suggested Reading
If you want to see where the case is made in the pali canon for Mahayana Buddhism (second turning of the wheel), check out "Echoes From An Empty Sky" which discusses the doctrine of two truths."Excellent post. I could pick and respond to parts, bit by bit, but that would denigrate the whole which, as it stands, speaks well enough for itself. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
93 93/93
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my pliosaur
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@Sirl said
"...I would say Japan (where, I believe, around 80% to 90% of people consider themselves Buddhist)..."
Well, no, though your basic point is essentially upheld.
84.9% Shinto
71.4% Buddhist
2% Christian
7.8% Other2005 from the CIA.
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@ Sirl
Thanks for the answer. I like it.@ Jim
Funny guy. You're a funny guy. CIA... LOL Thanks. -
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@seekinghga said
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Sorry, but as a Christian, Buddhism to me is a mistaken philosophy and its conclusions about life, God, and reality are too biased by brain manipulation to be taken as guidance for what is real and what isn't.
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Buddhism is the BOMB; the MIND bomb designed to disintegrate the astral gobbledy gook that constantly assails an otherwise perfect manifestation God.
The purity of the doctrine is startling in it's simplicity; singularly syncro beautimous! It is the deluge for the dessicated soul. I apologize if this doesn't really help answer your question or allay your fears reagrding its authenticity as a wellspring of TRUTH.
Good Luck to you!
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@Ducky said
"Buddhism is the BOMB"
@Ducky said
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The purity of the doctrine is startling in it's simplicity; singularly syncro beautimous! It is the deluge for the dessicated soul. I apologize if this doesn't really help answer your question or allay your fears reagrding its authenticity as a wellspring of TRUTH."Well, it's one version of the truth, or one way of talking about truth that works for some people, at least until they get a measure of their own.
It's hard not to admire Buddhism. Nevertheless, there is still something not very satisfactory about how many westerners project some sort of transcendent perfection onto the East, and in this instance, Buddhism; as if we are somehow lacking in the West, hopelessly flawed, messed up beyond any repair, missing all the parts to a viable mystical tradition of our own.
Our histories have been different. So just as we are in the habit of affirming the genius of the East, I would suggest that the West also has its genius that is not obvious to the East, or those who adhere to Eastern philosophies because of some perceived superiority in things, 'not home grown.' In short, it is not fashionable to talk about the West as one of the great spiritual traditions of the world. And this fact bothers me—my sense of balance is disturbed by it.
Ducky, I respect your obvious love of Buddhism, I have a great respect for it myself, but it brings up a number of other concerns for me having to do with what I perceive to be the real problem of the western mind in this regard. Namely, our inability to believe in ourselves. This is what is really lacking, and the probable cause of our feeling that we need to try and graft our psyches onto exotic, foreign root stocks, because our own roots have been corrupted.
I understand your paean of praise for Buddhism did not directly imply any defect of the western traditions, but it has served as a catalyst for my own thoughts on how we relate to it. The reality is the West is flawed, I admit that, but then so is the East in its own way. That one should be elevated above the other is troublesome.
Love and Will
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@RobertAllen said
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Well, it's one version of the truth, or one way of talking about truth that works for some people, at least until they get a measure of their own."
Why do we feel a need to POSSESS a tradition or philosophy [as westerners] - speaking in the intentionally broad applicability of Thelemic thought - "The LAW is for ALL" if we regard LAW as TRUTH or DHARMA or whatever descriptor we use to limit or otherwise make manageable the SPIRITUAL SCIENCES.
ALL Traditions our ours!
My peculiar LOVE of Buddhism is probably hereditary - I absolutely love Asian cuisine!
@RobertAllen said
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Love and Will"
God Bless you
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@Ducky said
"Why do we feel a need to POSSESS a tradition or philosophy [as westerners] - speaking in the intentionally broad applicability of Thelemic thought - "The LAW is for ALL" if we regard LAW as TRUTH or DHARMA or whatever descriptor we use to limit or otherwise make manageable the SPIRITUAL SCIENCES."
WHO?! Who is possessing a philosophy? Let em at em! I'll tear them limb from limb and laugh in the lust of the slaughter!
Of course I must take into account a few things first. One, I am a westerner, and so are most people commenting on this forum. Even Jung needed a bridge before he felt he could comment of far Eastern alchemical treatises because the images that formed the background of his thought were 'western.' Two, Buddhism evolved in the East, before the world unification via the internet and global markets that are in fact remaking the world. Three, the first really global spiritual 'dispensation' that I know of is Thelema. Nevertheless, Crowley was an Englishman. And this fact must count for something when understanding why he did what he did the way he did it.
There is a difference between practices and philosophy. When Crowley integrated Yoga and Magick, he didn't buy into Eastern philosophies. Nevertheless, it was something of an homage to the East, but also an acknowledgment of the great tradition of the West. To deny that many people in the West feel the West has nothing to offer them, spiritually, is to deny the obvious. And I'm sure that is not what you are doing.
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I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory..."Not very Buddhist-like if you ask me.
As always,
Love and Will -
@RobertAllen said
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I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory..."Not very Buddhist-like if you ask me.
As always,
Love and Will"The Buddhist version probably reads a little something like this:
"I am Varsavarti that giveth Dharma and Desire and Sensual Delight."
or something like that.
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meh!
Love and Will