The HGA and Christian god
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I think we need to clarify the sect of Christinaity. However, Christianity tends to hold to the idea of a transcendent God that is separate from humanity, wherein the HGA is a part of who we are.
Quite frankly, there are so many qualities to the Christian idea of God that it would be almost impossible to classify "Him" within a Qabbalistic or Thelemic context. It really depends on what aspect you are referring to.
There are some aspects that can be found in every Sephirah of the Tree of Life- insofar as I have studied.I have given a bit of reflection to "Love is the Law, Love under Will" and how that applies to the Catholic Dogma, as I myself used to be Catholic. I feel that the idea of the HGA, within the Catholic religion has almost a 1:1 correspondence with the exception that the HGA in the Thelemic context is a part of ourself, wherein in the Catholic faith, it visualized as an external entity. In either path, it is our connection to divine powers. I do, however, find tremendous correlation with the concept of "Love", as is written in the Law, and the concept of the Holy Spirit.
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@HWNH said
"I feel that the idea of the HGA, within the Catholic religion has almost a 1:1 correspondence with the exception that the HGA in the Thelemic context is a part of ourself, wherein in the Catholic faith, it visualized as an external entity."
Yes, I was saying the same thing from a Protestant perspective. It shares the same exception as well.
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Here is an article that talks a little about this subject. At the end, there is a link to a video clip by Lon Duquette where he mentions the similarity in the goal of every ecstatic mystic that every walked the face of the earth. Another aspect of the video clip that is a little bit off the subject, never the less, very interesting, is that, keep in mind, when you watch the video clip, the prince also represents the Beast 666 (the number for the sphere of Tiphareth is 666) and see how he is consorting with Babalon, the feminine aspect, up and down the tree. When she rises back up the tree to the Throne of Binah, this is the aspect of her that we are most familiar with, where she is riding atop the Beast with seven heads. The seven heads are the seven lower sephiroth of the tree. - unusmundus-melie.blogspot.com/2011/05/writing-by-me-thelema-morality-and.html
Also, this article about Baphomet, Alchemy and The Temple of Solomon contains some good info on what kinds of similarities there are. - unusmundus-melie.blogspot.com/2009/09/writing-by-me-baphomet-alchemcy-temple.html
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[emphasis mine]
@Bereshith said
"I used to be very angry with the Pope. I've had just a few years to study these things, and they've had centuries. But these days,*** I picture him in the cockpit of a very old time/consciousness machine trying to find the proper bearings to land the big damned old thing in the current Aeon without destroying absolutely everything with it***, and thus defeating the point of their role in preservation. Conundrum. That's what I think about Rome these days - if they are indeed following along in the procession of the Aeons as they have certainly had the opportunity to be."
I was rather struck by some wording in Pope Benedict's resignation announcement [emphasis mine]:
@Pope Benedic said
"However, in today's world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, ***in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter ***and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. "
"...in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter..." Sometimes their choice of words makes me wonder how much they understand. Perhaps it's a vain hope. I don't know.
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Bereshith;
Sometimes your choice of words makes me wonder how much you understand, or refuse to understand. Granted, the Roman Catholic Church is an Old Aeon vessel - but it was a righted vessel at one time or another. Don't throw the baby out with the baptism. -
93,
""...in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter..." Sometimes their choice of words makes me wonder how much they understand. Perhaps it's a vain hope. I don't know."
I've always held the belief that the pope has all the 'old' books that they seized during the witch trials. I also believe them to be intelligent people who have probably learnt classical mythology at some point and also will be well aware of Thelema and other religions, even if they view it as a competition of faith. They must know the origins of their own religion lies in a various gluing together of pagan myths.
I also liked his emphasis on strength, relating to Geburah and back to Ra Hoor Khuit. But maybe that's just a coincidence.
Its a shame the smiling pope (Pope John Paul I) was assassinated, he had some ideas which would have made me respect Catholicism more.
Anyway, thanks for sharing.
93's.
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Was right what the church did in the past, but it´s not right now, when they are still the same rancid bullshit? I don´t get that.
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@Takamba said
"Bereshith;
Sometimes your choice of words makes me wonder how much you understand, or refuse to understand. Granted, the Roman Catholic Church is an Old Aeon vessel - but it was a righted vessel at one time or another. Don't throw the baby out with the baptism."Hm. I'm not sure of the misunderstanding. It's probably my fault though. And the original post is from two years ago...
I would love nothing more than for the Catholic Church, guided by those piloting Saint Peter's ship of consciousness, to find a way to understand "Jesus" as the initial "stand-in" name for the HGA, much like Thelemic aspirants are encouraged intially to use "Aiwass."
I know the name "Jesus" has served that purpose for me, but I had to jump ship, and I had a really hard swim.
Man, wouldn't it be incredible for them to land that big old ship in the current Aeon in a way that provided congruence for its members making the transition from one Aeon to the other?
"He's got....high hopes..."
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Step 1: Retreat from the position that "Evil is the 'privation of Good'" (ala Augustine) and go with something more along the lines of "Evil is the result of the ignorance that precedes learning."
Step 2: Allow for many past references to "man" or "humanity" to be refering to the level of human personality while acknowledging that human beings are capable of experiencing more than that one level of themselves along the inner spectrum existing from the human personality to the Divine. Orthodox Christianity has long worked with the concept of "apotheosis," so this isn't a completely impossible stretch.
With those two seeds, much could grow.
Like I said... "high hopes..."
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@Smokey Monking said
"Was right what the church did in the past, but it´s not right now, when they are still the same rancid bullshit? I don´t get that."
You fail to separate one conclusion from the other. In the Old Aeon, Old Aeon things worked. To say you agree that something was once right is not to say that you agree that that something is always right. It is right to add cream to tea if you enjoy that sort of thing, but not if the tea is still boiling (as the cream will curdle and taste sour).
Not all things of the Old Aeon are black, only those that need to be purged (black and white thinking, for instance).
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Yeah, it seems Benny wasn't any too happy with my email to him upon his enthronement. (I elected to treat as sincere his many public statements that he wished to establish improved communicatons with representatives of other religions. But he was an adamant stand against moral relativism, among other things.)
"Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 1:27 PM
Subject: Congratulations and best wishesYour Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
On this occasion of your inaugural mass, please accept our best wishes and blessing. May you flourish in your Calling.
As you reach forth to embrace communion with those of other faiths and other spiritual paths, so do our hands reach to meet yours for our shared goals.
As expected, those pursuing differing spiritual paths will not agree on all things. We would disagree with you, for example, on the issue of moral absolutism. It is our teaching that true morality is founded upon the God-graced conscience living within each soul, with which each must strive to be in communion.
But we share with you common goals on many fundamental things. We wish and work for a more spiritual life for all, increased personal moral responsibility, and peace among nations in the realization of God's love.
Benedictio, Benedicto.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in Light,
James A. Eshelman
M.G.H. Prolocutor General
Temple of Thelema" -
Continuing....
Step 3: Allow for an understanding of the doctrine of Hell that uses a "Purgatorial" concept of reincarnation in terms of the "Hell of perpetually self-reinforcing, downward cycles of bad karma" versus the "Heaven of liberation."
...You know... just my notes for the new Pope...
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Yeah, it seems Benny wasn't any too happy with my email to him upon his enthronement. (I elected to treat as sincere his many public statements that he wished to establish improved communicatons with representatives of other religions. But he was an adamant stand against moral relativism, among other things.)
"
Well... I guess maybe get ready to revise and update that email...
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@Takamba said
" It is right to add cream to tea if you enjoy that sort of thing, but not if the tea is still boiling (as the cream will curdle and taste sour)."
I was going to make a joke about bishop´s raping children before and after the new aeon with that, but I desisted because I know you are sensible people.
I simply disagree with you and admit it: I´m an obvious case of black and white thinking. I think the evolution of conciousness from one aeon to another don´t change the fact that things like murder, opression, enslavement, looting, etc etc (that things Roman Catholic Church did and still do, you know), are simply, let´s say it this way, inadvisable in any time moment.
In other order of things, about the believing in Jesus, "good christianity", and so on, I don´t give a fvck, they can do whatever they want.
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@Smokey Monking said
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@Takamba said
" It is right to add cream to tea if you enjoy that sort of thing, but not if the tea is still boiling (as the cream will curdle and taste sour)."I was going to make a joke about bishop´s raping children before and after the new aeon with that, but I desisted because I know you are sensible people.
I simply disagree with you and admit it: I´m an obvious case of black and white thinking. I think the evolution of conciousness from one aeon to another don´t change the fact that things like murder, opression, enslavement, looting, etc etc (that things Roman Catholic Church did and still do, you know), are simply, let´s say it this way, inadvisable in any time moment.
In other order of things, about the believing in Jesus, "good christianity", and so on, I don´t give a fvck, they can do whatever they want."
Oh, so you're confusing the actions of those "under the Church" with the spiritual language of The Pope himself. I see now, you aren't talking about "spiritual vessels," you are talking about human beings. Many a Thelemite has been to prison, before and after recognizing their flaws. Let's condemn Jim for that!
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@Takamba said
"
Oh, so you're confusing the actions of those "under the Church" with the spiritual language of The Pope himself. I see now, you aren't talking about "spiritual vessels," you are talking about human beings. Many a Thelemite has been to prison, before and after recognizing their flaws. Let's condemn Jim for that!"Yeah, we DEMAND an explication from him or, at least, a response, lol.
I was doubting, seeing how you mix both things, "Roman Catholic Church" and the fucking Pope, and the "spiritual" thing. I still don´t see clear some things, but well I haven´t time enough now in any case.
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Some Christian monastic orders perform interesting prayers...
There is one I plan on knowing once I am granted the name of my Angel
In order to bring us into union ;
Though it has interesting effects simply using Jesus Christ -
The main difference I noticed between Thelema in Christianity, is Christianity has a lack of emphasis on doing one's true will. It would not necessarily be considered a sin to do things against ones nature the way that I understand it now in Thelema. However, I noticed in my life how the things I did that were unthelemic lead me to do things that others would generally consider to be wrong, as well as regretting the actions myself.
When I was a Christian, I did not consider there to be anything wrong with suffering through something, after all, Christianity has a certain emphasis on suffering as being spiritual. What I did not understand as a Christian, is how sorrow could become joy, because I did not understand the internal changes described in the Book of the Law.