Pranayama, Dangers, Finding a Teacher
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Hi, I'm working on Pranayama from Liber E and having good results. However, as I'm starting to get into the heavier lengths, I'm wondering about the oft-repeated dangers of pranayama and finding a proper teacher. What exactly are the dangers, what are the crucial factors in "doing it right," and how might one find a teacher—are there yogic lineages in the West which teach the stuff?
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One big thing to avoid - based on recommendations I've read from, I believe, Crowley, JAE, and a variety of other people with experience - is to avoid straining. Pride can make us push for bigger numbers, but if you have to strain to do a certain breath cycle, you can give yourself some big issues (like bad asthma, for one, I believe).
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93,
@Dar said
"There is a tendancy for spiritual tourists in our western cultures to get off on the aesthetics in order to feel they are getting somewhere, as well as the tendancy of teachers to cater to them.
For instance... rolling the word 'Pranayama' around your mouth - it feels nice and foreign and impresses your mind much more than saying 'extended breathing' or 'energy work with extended breathing'. But how useful is this to your practise?
"I think that's some great advice!
93 93/93.
AL H-ShMATh
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Nice tip. To clarify I'm looking for specific information on, say, breathing patterns, muscle contractions, yogic locks, which sinus cavities to employ, balancing out the energy, etc.—any technical processes of pranayama which differentiate "safe pranayama" from "unsafe pranayama." Failing that, general ways to do the practice safely, or just reports of personal experiences with the process? If this violates secrecy in some way, please just let me know up front, it will save me time. If so, if you could refer me to a source where I COULD learn some good information—i.e., a yogic lineage or even some book recommendations, that would be excellent. Thanks for any help you can provide to a fellow traveller...
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@Cygnus said
" What exactly are the dangers, what are the crucial factors in "doing it right,""
The thread got me thinking a bit and I did some searches. This thread looks pretty helpfull heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1835&start=0&hilit=pranayama
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Uh Oh!
I'm sure many more people die from car crashes in a given 5 second slice accross the world then people die from Pranayama in a year, so danger is relative.
Point taken - got to take some risk to get anywhere in life (or have fun), but calculated risk.
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@mojorisin44 said
"The thread got me thinking a bit and I did some searches. This thread looks pretty helpfull heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1835&start=0&hilit=pranayama"
Yes that thread is a good discussion.From it:
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@RegentLynx said
"I too would be interested in knowing to what extent you feel these warnings should be heeded. Specifically, what would be the safest beginning practice(s) for a complete novice in pranayama who does not have ready access to a qualified teacher of Yogic disciplines?"Witnessing the breath is safe. So is non-forced rhythmic breathing of the 3-fold or 4-fold breath variety.
If you're going to get much more heavily into it, then the least you should do IMHO is to have personal access to someone who knows about this stuff and report any significant phenomena as they occur."
Unlike say, physical exercise, where if you hurt your wrist you can easily get fixed up, pranayama has profound effects on your nervous system. Kundalini phenomena for example, which isn't always pretty. And problems of that nature are much less easily fixed by a Doctor.
My personal experience with inadvertently triggering kundalini phenomena left me very weak and painful for a week, nearly bedridden, and pretty feeble for a month afterward. Other people have had painful symptoms that lasted for a year or more.
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"Unlike say, physical exercise, where if you hurt your wrist you can easily get fixed up, pranayama has profound effects on your nervous system. Kundalini phenomena for example, which isn't always pretty. And problems of that nature are much less easily fixed by a Doctor.
My personal experience with inadvertently triggering kundalini phenomena left me very weak and painful for a week, nearly bedridden, and pretty feeble for a month afterward. Other people have had painful symptoms that lasted for a year or more."
Yeah, this is more what I'm talking about. How would one know the stages of this, warning signs, and how to manage properly without f'ing oneself up.
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Alas, I'm not an expert.
All I've been able to do is (a) repeat info from people with more wisdom and (b) share one personal anecdote of what negative side effects could be like.
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@Dar said
"As with any sort of teacher/student relationship - think for yourself and be alert for the assumptions your teacher will make as they may be erroneous at times. i.e. - everyone makes mistakes but when teachers fall into the trap of believing their words must be the authoritive 'bottom line' then both truth and learning opportunities fly out the window."
From OM by Talbot Mundy.
"We should ascend out of perversity, even as we ascend a mountain that we do not know, with the aid of guides who do know. None who sets forth on an unknown voyage stipulates that the pilot must agree with him as to the course, since manifestly that would be absurd; the pilot is presumed to know; the piloted does not know. None who climbs a mountain bargains that the guide shall keep to this or that direction; it is the business of the guide to lead.
And yet, men hire guides for the Spiritual Journey, of which they know less than they know of land and sea, and stipulate that the guide shall lead them thus and so, according to their own imaginings; and instead of obeying him, they desert and denounce him should he lead them otherwise. I find this of the essence of perversity."
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@Dar said
"If there's a Master - then there's a Slave."
Uh, that's not the only meaning of "master." An old use of the Latin magister is in the sense of "school master," i.e., a master teacher. That's the primary (especially in the sense of "original") meanings of the title Magister Templi, and the one especially meant by "spiritual master."
Teacher. Not Lord & Savior.
"And in spiritual matters - even the best teachers - a veritable New Buddha - would be in no way, shape or form, better than your own elemental."
Ignoring the fact that you and I seem to use the term "elemental" in harshly different ways...
The above doesn't suspend out duty to teach, nor the value in will training (and overcoming personality lock) of beginners swearing their fidelity and even obedience unreservedly to a selected master. (It doesn't even matter if the master is any good - since that's not where the miracle occurs.)
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dar, your comments about school and the institution are very different than my experience with it. reading yours (and i realize that message boards are flat and lacking) i am reminded of pink floyds "brick in the wall". i'm from california, so it maybe a bit more liberal than the u.k. version of an education system. my understanding is stereotypical: dark, damp, and mean. is that how it was? curious...
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HIERARCHY
Hierarchy exists in all school systems.
Hierarchy also exists in school yards.
Hierarchy exists in Poem's rhythm.
Hierarchy: structure and form by the yard!Hierarchy exists within your own mind.
Hierarchy exists within your pocket.
Hierarchy exists for all for all time.
Hierarchy: title I give this sonnet.Hierarchy exists among the planets.
Hierarchy exists betwixt blades of grass.
Hierarchy exists, take it for granted.
Hierarchy: more than what is in a class.When you have learned that it needn't frazzle,
Hierarchy is totally natural. -
@Dar said
"It will never happen. No man or woman can adopt the sovereign authority of another and call themselves a Thelemite."
I fail to see what the surrender of ego control within a student teacher relationship has to do with identification as a Thelemite. Unless indentification with that label is just another ego game?
@Dar said
"The only time to give it up is when you're.. giving it up.
"And if you can't even practice "giving it up" with a guru, how will you ever really give it up to the Angel?
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@Dar said
"It's something you already know how to do. You've had plenty of practise! Everyone has!"
So if we're all so good at it, how come we're not all consciously basking in the light of K&C?
@Dar said
"No-one get's an instruction manual to tell them how to be obidient because everyone remembers being a child. And like a child - that's how you give it up to the Angel. Giving it up to *anyone else *is a betrayal."
But if we really had free access to that skill in adulthood it wouldn't be so hard to open up to the Angel. As it is the adult ego is more developed and hardened than a childs. Simply remembering that child-like state is not enough. Most of us only re-connect with that state when we fall in love with another. But even then it is limited. (Otherwise we would be able to fall in love with anyone and everyone.
) But for K&C to occur we must be able to go beyond that limited opening up.If giving it up at the lower student/teacher level generates ego resistance, what resistance will be met at the higher level with the Angel?