Prostitution: Yay, or Nay ?
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@David S said
"Crowley's behavior was by any account abnormal."
Have a look at the line at which psychological, healthcare and sociological professionals currently tend to draw the objective line between healthy and pathological behaviour:
"Any sexual behaviour that is consensual and does not endanger oneself or others, is to be considered healthy; while anything that oversteps that line is to be considered pathological."
@Crowley said
"... our selection of “evils” is limited to those that cannot damage us irreparably. E.g., one ought to practice smelling assafoetida until one likes it; but not arsine or hydrocyanic acid. Again, one might have a liaison with an ugly old woman until one beheld and loved the star which she is etc. etc. ..."
If you got a problem with that, it's your problem, not someone else's mental illness. See how he is saying the exact same as the above, very modern definition?
The moment one has a problem with one's own or other's expression of sexuality - even though it is consensual and doesn't seriously endanger anyone - one has become a slave or a tyrant due to the idea that people's bodies do not exclusively belong to themselves - to do with as they please, when, where and how and with whom they (consensually) wish to.
I do hope I have made it any clearer where I am coming from, I am working with discriminated people as a kink aware professional, their suffering usually comes from opinions like some of those in this very thread ...
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@Simon Iff said
"* By all means, quite some of you guys should really see into it that you get some, regularly, make that a number one priority, before posting again!"
You'd be surprised, I think.@Simon Iff said
"You seriously think about what your mother would say when deciding what kind of sex to have? WTF?"
Not my point (although, at some level, we probably all have a mother complex going on somewhere in the subsconscious). What I was trying to infer is that the outward conduct of the man, Crowley, is uncomfortable for me to admit. That doesn't make him bad or wrong. It says more about me than him. I get that. I simply offer the reaction because I doubt I'm alone in wrestling with this aspect of Thelema.@Simon Iff said
""Any sexual behaviour that is consensual and does not endanger oneself or others, is to be considered healthy; while anything that oversteps that line is to be considered pathological.""
Yes, I think that sounds like a reasonable place to draw a line.
@Simon Iff said
"I do hope I have made it any clearer where I am coming from, I am working with discriminated people as a kink aware professional, their suffering usually comes from opinions like some of those in this very thread"
I think you perhaps confuse my observations and considerations with opinions, but I appreciate the ferocity of your views. -
@Jim Eshelman said
"Then again, so were his results. "
Agreed. I tried to acknowledge this initially, albeit without admitting a link between such operations and the intended results, since I don't have enough experience of my own to go on.@Jim Eshelman said
"Then again, we're all in some kind of closet, don't you think? "
Yes, I think we are all somewhat repressed and restricted. And I actually like how far out Crowley went. It makes me feel somehow more secure pushing to my own extremes.@Jim Eshelman said
"To me, the most important lesson is: Stop trying to have a religion built around One Perfect Man Who Is Without Flaw. The genius thing that Crowley's life teaches is that enormous attainment is not a consequence of being sinless, and probably isn't per se a consequence of being "sinful" (though some would argue that) - rather, it is simply that imperfect people can have enormous attainment. It isn't a moral issue."
I'm personally inclined to go one step further and find a way to accept Crowley, with regard to all of this relatively harmless sex stuff we're talking about, as perfect and as sinless. I'm just beginning to wrap my head around it, that's all. -
@Frater 639 said
"22 years old. Blue eyed girl... "
I'm just quoting you here so I can say I agree with everything you wrote. -
@kasper81 said
"Did it occur to you that he was controlling sexual pleasure upon the point of climax and directing it into the sublimated magical intent? "
Yes. And I thought that method of wielding one's wand to be kind of awesome and kind of preposterous at the same time.@kasper81 said
"i am free of any vindictive impulse when i ask you are you living with your mother at this time?
I am single so that second part was irrelevant"
I don't live with my mother (nor did I take any offense). And I'm really not sure why I thought of her response to AC. I reckon you guys are simply more inclined than I to toss off (so to speak) and disregard conventional views and judgements about Crowley, the man. I admire you all for that, in some way, but I also wonder if perhaps you are ignoring something about being in society that is is more powerful and influential to work with than to disavow.@kasper81 said
"have you ever jacked off to porn? It could be argued that jacking off is not normal as your dick wasn't made for your hand it was made for someone's vagina. You are a pervert dude haha. "
Sure, we all have our thing, and I'm more twisted than some, for sure. But from where I sit, one does not wisely accept poop eating and goat screwing and whore mongering and all that proudly pursued and proclaimed by a teacher of the New Aeon without giving the conduct some careful reflection.@kasper81 said
"i am familiar with this passage and it is drivel ; rambling nonsense."
Class E, agreed. But I still think he meant it. -
@David S said
"I also wonder if perhaps you are ignoring something about being in society that is is more powerful and influential to work with than to disavow."
Wait for it...
@David S said
"But from where I sit, one does not wisely accept poop eating and goat screwing and whore mongering and all that proudly pursued and proclaimed by a teacher of the New Aeon without giving the conduct some careful reflection."
You have, it would seem to me, met the intellectual and ethical (perhaps moral) SHOCK that is magick. Levels yet to go, yes, until you get to that place you claim to "admire." That place where you WILL your intellectual and moral position (as opposed to having been birthed in it) (and SHOCKS beyond will bring you there). Hence, the popularity of "initiations."
#justsayin
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@Takamba said
"You have, it would seem to me, met the intellectual and ethical (perhaps moral) SHOCK that is magick. Levels yet to go, yes, until you get to that place you claim to "admire." That place where you WILL your intellectual and moral position (as opposed to having been birthed in it) (and SHOCKS beyond will bring you there). Hence, the popularity of "initiations.""
Sounds about right, Takamba. Feels that way too.
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"I say never be complete, I say stop being perfect, I say.. lets evolve, let the chips fall where they may."
Tyler Durdan..
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@kasper81 said
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@David S said
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@Takamba said
"You have, it would seem to me, met the intellectual and ethical (perhaps moral) SHOCK that is magick. Levels yet to go, yes, until you get to that place you claim to "admire." That place where you WILL your intellectual and moral position (as opposed to having been birthed in it) (and SHOCKS beyond will bring you there). Hence, the popularity of "initiations.""Sounds about right, Takamba. Feels that way too."
Its got nothing to do with magick. I think David S you are right about being shocked at AC's behaviour here because you think he was an addict with compulsions. Was he a sex addict? Probably not as he controlled these orgies and did settle down in monogamy for long periods as he willed"
This depends on your definition of "magick." I'm talking about the so-called (in modern pop-magick parlance) "tantrics" of self-evolution.
Think on this, who is the more powerful magician? The one who walks into a pagan temple and like the herd he is among bows and worships the things there, or the one who walks in and shocks the populace with a new moral standard? That description may be too simplistic or not including enough information to suggest being a magician is actually what is taking place, so fill in the gaps with your own expectations. The lack of revulsion at certain acts could be simply considered the delusional nature of a psychopath, or it could be that some can rise above culturally implanted prejudices and without vomit put a piece of human feces to their nose and diagnose the ailment of the infirm. You decide if that's magick or not, I guess.
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@Takamba said
"it could be that some can rise above culturally implanted prejudices and without vomit put a piece of human feces to their nose and diagnose the ailment of the infirm."
I can sit through FOX News. Does it count if I throw up in my mouth?
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@Frater 639 said
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@Takamba said
"it could be that some can rise above culturally implanted prejudices and without vomit put a piece of human feces to their nose and diagnose the ailment of the infirm."I can sit through FOX News. Does it count if I throw up in my mouth?
"It only counts if the blasphemy is relevant to your freedom from controls not willed by you.
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@Takamba said
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@Frater 639 said
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@Takamba said
"it could be that some can rise above culturally implanted prejudices and without vomit put a piece of human feces to their nose and diagnose the ailment of the infirm."I can sit through FOX News. Does it count if I throw up in my mouth?
"It only counts if the blasphemy is relevant to your freedom from controls not willed by you."
Haha.
Nah, through an act of will, I turned it on myself with the TV controls.
