Chaos and Babalon vs. Therion and Babalon
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@FraterSia said
"I was hoping someone could give me a legitimate reference from Crowley's writing concerning this question. I have read some other authors equate Chaos and Therion, and even equate Therion with Chockmah. However, other than the switch Crowley made in the Star Ruby switching Chaos with Therion, I can find no instance of him saying this. in fact I find many more references where he claims that Chaos and Therion are distinct.
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However, I have yet to find one reference directly in Crowley's work that directly equates Therion with Chaos, or Therion with Chockmah. Could someone please help me find an actual Crowley statement on this?"
Excellent question.
I'm one of those who equates Therion with Chokmah, but - to be clear - that does not mean I equate Therion with Chaos, any more than I equate Cybele and Demeter just because they correspond to the same sephirah.
The gist of it is that Therion is THE WORD, and THE WORD is Chokmah. Therion is the natural mate of the Scarlet Woman (666 & 667, and cited in Liber L. a couple of times(, and "the Scarlet Woman" is just the generic name of Babalon. In The Vision & the Voice, "Chaos" was used as the Chokmnah archetype of Babalon and the Chokmah expression, and this is specifically what spilled over in to the quasi Table of Correspondences at the end of Liber Cheth which presents Therion as a Tifereth idea. (And certainly he is solar.)
Chaos also is the expression of the "Father of life" or Chokmah in the Gnostic Mass, and is the name in which Liber Magi is sealed.
One connecting Qabbalistic idea is that Chokmah and Binah - the cosmic Lingam and Yoni, the Roots of Fire and Water - are also, at a very high level, called the Sun and the Moon. I've long felt that this is what was referenced in Liber L. 1:16, where, of the Beast & Scarlet Woman, it is written, "For he is ever a sun, and she a moon."
I could be glib and say, "You think Babalon is only sleeping with one god?" But, however true, that wouldn't sincerely address your question
Here's a passage from the book I'm currently finishing:
"In Thelema, the more accessible parent archetypes are expressed by stepped-down versions of Nuit and Hadit associated with Qabalistic ideas called Binah (the Great Mother) and Chokmah (the Great Father). These “lower octave” expressions are, respectively, Babalon, a synthesis of all mythic ideas of the Divine Feminine (especially as Moon and yoni), and either Chaos (a celestial and phallic idea) or The Beast (a solar and phallic idea).
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Babalon appears in The Book of the Law only under her title or cognomen, The Scarlet Woman. This associates her unmistakably with The Beast, these being two figures from the Christian Apocalypse of St. John (The Book of Revelations), appearing in The Book of the Law presumably to stun rigid Christian sensibilities.
Crowley associated himself with The Beast, meaning specifi-cally “the beast 666” from Revelations. In Greek, “the great beast” is to mega therion, which enumerates to 666. In number symbolism used in Qabalah, and in other ancient bridgings of math and mysticism, 666 is one of the great numbers attributed to the Sun. The idea of to mega therion, the Great Beast, is there-fore inherently solar. Sometimes this is viewed as especially related to the solar sphere on the Tree of Life, called Tiphereth, “Beauty.” As the complement of Babalon, he is attributable on the Tree of Life to Chokmah, “Wisdom,” the Supernal Father or Logos, a more deeply rooted solar idea. (It was in the grade corresponding to Chokmah that Crowley actually took the aspiration name To Mega Therion.)"
If by "legitimate reference from Crowley" you mean a quotation, I'd have to dig. I'd start with maybe his footnotes in The Vision & the Voice (since they're the easiest to scan), and then move to the New Comment (which is more likely to have the necessary ideas spelled out, but would be a much longer - though worthwhile - read).
What I've attempted above, then, is mostly to give the Qabbalah of the matter. If I stumble across a direct quote, I'll add it.
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In a comment about the 24th Aethyr, he writes: "24. Now appears his mate, the heavenly Venus, the Scarlet Woman, who by men
is thought of as Babalon as he is thought of as Chaos."
Which doesn't equate Chaos and the Beast only, as you say, Babalon may have multiple consorts.The entire Vision and the Voice never refers to Therion and the Beast only twice (that I am aware of), with no reference to either Chaos or Chockmah when referring to the Beast.
The New Comment never refers to Chaos at all and only to Chockmah twice, once with reference to the Word, but no mention of the Beast or Therion when talking about Chockmah.
Thanks
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@FraterSia said
"In a comment about the 24th Aethyr, he writes: "24. Now appears his mate, the heavenly Venus, the Scarlet Woman, who by men is thought of as Babalon as he is thought of as Chaos." Which doesn't equate Chaos and the Beast only, as you say, Babalon may have multiple consorts."
That's a great quote. And, while I dislike the word "equate" in this sense, I'm inclined to interpret it differently than you: The sentence establishes the exact same relationship between Scarlet Woman and Babalon (who are one) as between Therion and Chaos. This is stronger than I expected to find: It seems to say they are the same.
Except that, in Qabbalah, no two names are the same unless they are the same name. They have different letters, different spellings, different values.
"The entire Vision and the Voice never refers to Therion and the Beast only twice (that I am aware of), with no reference to either Chaos or Chockmah when referring to the Beast."
Think of where, in his personal work, Crowley was when getting those visions. He was an Exempt Adept (technically, a Babe of the Abyss) attaining to Biynah. These were new ideas. He was identified with the Beast but not with Chaos. Etc.
"The New Comment never refers to Chaos at all and only to Chockmah twice, once with reference to the Word, but no mention of the Beast or Therion when talking about Chockmah or the Word."
You read fast! <g> - Look for associations of Beast or Therion with Wisdom, paternity, phallus, logos, etc."
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@FraterSia said
"The entire Vision and the Voice never refers to Therion and the Beast only twice (that I am aware of), with no reference to either Chaos or Chockmah when referring to the Beast."
I have an electronic copy of 418, but without the footnotes - it's a copy I made for private use after I had retyped the entire work in preparation for writing Visions & Voices. I would mostly expect Crowley's remarks on this to be in the footnotes, but, from the text itself, here is what I find. (Paragraph numbers are mine, as used in Visions & Voices.)
25th Aethyr, par. 5. An easily solvable Qabbalistic puzzle includes the following:
@25th Aethyr said
"On my head is the crown, 419 rays far-darting. And my body is the body of the Snake, and my soul is the soul of the Crowned Child. Though an Angel in white robes leadeth me, who shall ride upon me but the Woman of Abominations? Who is the Beast? Am not I one more than he? In his hand is a sword that is a book. In his hand is a spear that is a cup of fornication. Upon his mouth is set the great and terrible seal. And he hath the secret of V. His ten horns spring from five points, and his eight heads are as the charioteer of the West. Thus doth the fire of the sun temper the spear of Mars, and thus shall he be worshipped, as the warrior lord of the sun. Yet in him is the woman that devoureth with her water all the fire of God."
But this is "Beast" as Chaiyath (ChYTh) = 418, and it is Teth=419 speaking.
Later in the same Aethyr is that spectacular description of the Beast that was of enormous value to me in first framing my ideas on the matter. See paragraphs 14-15:
"And now the lion passeth over through the Æthyr with the crowned beast upon his back, and the tail of the lion goes on instead of stopping, and on each hair of the tail is something or other – sometimes a little house, sometimes a planet, at other times a town. Then there is a great plain with soldiers fighting upon it, and an enormously high mountain carved into a thousand temples, and more houses and fields and trees, and great cities ith wonderful buildings in them, statues and columns and public buildings generally. This goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on – all on the hairs of this lion’s tail.
And then there is the tuft of his tail, which is like a comet, but the head is a new universe, and each hair streaming away from it is a Milky Way."
The name of the Beast is invoked as a blessing in the 16th Aethyr, par. 8, where it is written that "he hath let loose a mighty flood of fire from his manhood, and from his womanhood hath he let loose a mighty flood of water. Every thought of his mind is as a tempest that uprooteth the great trees of the earth, and shaketh the mountains thereof. And the throne of his spirit is a mighty throne of madness and desolation, so that they that look upon it shall cry: Behold the abomination!"
In the same aethyr is another passage that seems to treat him more in a Tifereth sense. It is based, in part,on passages from the Qu'ran and other sources.
"Great is the Beast that cometh forth like a lion, the servant of the Star and of the Snake. He is the Eternal one; He is the Almighty one. Blessed are they upon whom he shall look with favour, for nothing shall stand before his face. Accursed are they upon whom he shall look with derision, for nothing shall stand before his face.
And every mystery that hath not been revealed from the foundation of the world he shall reveal unto his chosen. And they shall have power over every spirit of the Ether; and of the earth and under the earth; on dry land and in the water; of whirling air and of rushing fire. And they shall have power over all the inhabitants of the earth, and every scourge of God shall be subdued beneath their feet. The angels shall come unto them and walk with them, and the great gods of heaven shall be their guests."
A couple of other references appear in the same text, more or less continuing the same discussion.
And, of course, there is the passage in the 12th Aethyr, par. 6.
"Glory unto the Scarlet Woman, Babylon the Mother of Abominations, that rideth upon the Beast, for she hath spilt their blood in every corner of the earth, and lo! she hath mingled it in the cup of her whoredom."
(He didn't yet have the correct spelling of "Babalon.") He is mentioned in the same aethyr as "the crowned beast" that she rides. And then a powerful statement:
"And the Beast whereon she rideth is the Lord of the City of the Pyramids."
The one who is "lord" over Biynah! Then a further passage that is as plain as can be that his mystery is beyond that of Biynah:
"Not as yet mayest thou understand the mystery of the Beast, for it pertaineth not unto the mystery of this Aire, and few that are new-born unto Understanding are capable thereof."
He is mentioned again in the 8th Aethyr, but without saying anything concrete. (The inference is that Babalon and the Beast are the pair, or "team," at the top; but that's an inference.) "For they are the servants of Babalon, and of the Beast, and of those others of whom it is not yet spoken." There is another passing regerence in the 3rd Aethyr: "For there is no other way into the Supernal Mystery but through her, and the Beast on which she rideth..."
Similarly, the first part of the 2nd Aethery refers to "BABALON, that rideth on The Beast" (and some further remarks in the lines following). Later, he is mentioned in comments of Crowley's new understanding of the Call of the Aethyrs: This one is interesting because "he upon whom BABALON rideth" is called "the Beast of the Field," and Crowley interpreted the "Field" as "the supernal Eden." Therefore, in this reference, he understood the Beast (the same one Babalon rides) as being "of" the Supernals.
He is mentioned in the 1st Aethyr in terms of his sigil on the forehead, heart, and hand of the child Horus.
So there are more than a couple of mentions of him in The Vision & the Voice - not even counting the footnotes.
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There is a fascinating passage in par. 8 of the 3rd Aethyr. I don't say this proves anything, but it's interesting. Chaos is described in the same sort of language usually reserved (including in this book) for The Beast:
"Verily all things have been swallowed up in destruction; and Chaos hath opened his jaws and crushed the Universe as a Bacchanal crusheth a grape between her teeth. "
In the 14th Aethyr, Chaos says, "I am the snake that devoureth the spirit of man with the lust of light." This is intriguingly similar to descriptions of the Beast. (Not definitive, but intriguing.) It is, of course, even more precisely Hadit.
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Thanks,
I think I tried to edit that reply where I said the Vision and Voice only referenced the Beast twice but it didn't catch because I have a digital version too and it clearly references it many times.I guess I am curious why in all of his most lucid writing he never makes the connection, while making many contradictory statements in Book 4 and Liber Cheth, not to mention the Gnostic Mass, but thanks for pointing out the Vision and the Voice references.
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There's a bigger issue I'm seeing though. Nuit is clearly an analogue for Shiva as Shiva is seen as the passive contemplative principle on Hindu Tantra and Hadit is clearly an analogue for Shakti as the creative uncoiling serpent who also manifests in the muladhara chakra. In this he reverses the male and female principles, but then places Babalon as the female conceptual principle at Binah. How then could the male Beast be the Word and Babalon be the creative female? Which actually would he the proper analogues for Shiva and Shakti in this relationship?
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Babalon = Shakti, Thereon = Shiva more or less.
But gender is a matter of convenience.
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The problem with these assertions is that they run contrary to traditional Hindu Tantra. Shiva is the passive, contemplative yogi that cannot be awoken from meditation, even from Shakti at times, and Shakti is the active and creative principle that brings the passive potential of Shiva into fruition. (I can provide academic citations for that assertion). Even the lingam is seen as Shiva's potentiality for creation in contemplative "I-ness".
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@FraterSia said
"The problem with these assertions is that they run contrary to traditional Hindu Tantra. Shiva is the passive, contemplative yogi that cannot be awoken from meditation, even from Shakti at times, and Shakti is the active and creative principle that brings the passive potential of Shiva into fruition. (I can provide academic citations for that assertion). Even the lingam is seen as Shiva's potentiality for creation in contemplative "I-ness"."
Chaos is Peace, and Babalon Power. In her, all power is given.
These are basic aphorisms of their nature. (Of course, the meaning of those is another thing!)
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I feel like this has become circular. On the one hand we have Nuit as the passive female and Hadit as the powerful creative (Solar Phallic), yet on the other hand we have Chaos as the male/passive and Babalon as the female/powerful?
To make this point clearer, the dynamic force in the Nuit/Hadit relationship is the male Hadit, where as the dynamic force in the Chaos/Babalon (Chockmah/Binah) is the female Babalon? If this be the case how then can Therion or Hadit be associated with the Choas/Babalon relationship?
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@Jim Eshelman said
"But gender is a matter of convenience."
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@FraterSia said
"If Chaos is peace why then would one associate Therion with Choas? Therion and Hadit are both the Solar Phallic force is it not?"
Notwithstanding this, there is a very important Qabalistic aphorism - even cited by Crowley in confidential papers - that Chokmah, and the male principle in general (including Therion etc.), is Peace, and that Binah, and the female principle in general, is Power.
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@FraterSia said
"I think the source of my confusion is that I am looking at it from a specific type of Tantra. Do you know what type of yoga/Hinduism Crowley specifically studied in India or otherwise?"
A variety, though I don't think he actually studied Tantra there. His view of Shiva in most cases would have been the more general "god of destruction" of the Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva triad, and the particular mode of worship inherent in the Shiva Samhita.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@FraterSia said
"I think the source of my confusion is that I am looking at it from a specific type of Tantra. Do you know what type of yoga/Hinduism Crowley specifically studied in India or otherwise?"A variety, though I don't think he actually studied Tantra there."
He probably did, in an area that is today part of Bangladesh (East Bengal), with these people:
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@Jim Eshelman said
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"Glory unto the Scarlet Woman, Babylon the Mother of Abominations, that rideth upon the Beast, for she hath spilt their blood in every corner of the earth, and lo! she hath mingled it in the cup of her whoredom."
(He didn't yet have the correct spelling of "Babalon.") He is mentioned in the same aethyr as "the crowned beast" that she rides. And then a powerful statement:"
"And the Beast whereon she rideth is the Lord of the City of the Pyramids."
Actually, there is evidence Crowley was aware of, and used the spelling Babalon five years before the work documented in The Vision & The Voice.
In the notebook titled Invocation of Hoor, which was started while in Cairo in the spring of 1904, a 36 card Tarot spread dealt in the summer of 1904 ends the notebook; in the written interpretation of the cards, Crowley associates the 2 of cups with** Babalon**, and also uses the term City of the Pyramids in the interpretation of another card: both terms are featured prominently in the The Vision & The Voice as shown in your previous post.