On the name of the Holy Guardian Angel
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I was hoping I could get a little insight from the more advanced community here regarding the name of the Holy Guardian Angel.
I'm having a little dilemma
I'm probably a bit too much in my head over it, so hoping this discussion can help me tease it out.
I've had knowledge and conversation with my HGA for many years. Why i have no idea, I dont feel I ever did much true work to gain that. I look at it more as grace than anything else. I'm not really here to make that claim though, regarding any attainment that I have, so feel free to discredit it. My query is rather around the experience I had over receiving her name.
After many years of experience with my HGA, and many doubts about my own attainment regarding that communication, I decided that it was time for me to learn the name of my HGA. Problem is that I felt I could not trust any experience in which this name could come to me and any experience regarding the reception of this name would immediately be cast in doubt. How would I know that it's the true name of my angel and not my own delusion? or, what if it is the name of some other intelligence, but something else that would want to trick me into thinking it's my angel?
I freely admit I have a poor record of any reliable practice, which makes me even more skeptical regarding any experience I have.
So one week I set my mind to it, in advance of a ceremony I would be attending and set this as my intention. In the height of this ceremonial experience, I was presented with her name. I say her name because the name is clearly female. And it was presented to me in such a way that in no way (at the time) could I doubt it's accuracy. It's far too complex to put into any language, I cannot explain my proof as it's purely a relic of my internal environment, but when the name was revealed not only did it make the clearest of sense, but it also had a bizarre streak of synchronicity attached with it that aligned all the events of the previous week with this name being revealed. her name is also quite synonymous with everything she has whispered to me over a decade or more, so the name was consistant with the message.
So - I still dont know what to make of it! It's been about a year since this experience. I am hoping I can get some insight, or perhaps point me in a direction or path or two - how can one come to determine the name of their HGA? At what point in the path of an aspirant does the name come to reveal itself? Am I missing something or just stuck in my head over it?
Any advice appreciated! thanks in advance
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@ldfriend56 said
"I've had knowledge and conversation with my HGA for many years. Why i have no idea, I dont feel I ever did much true work to gain that. I look at it more as grace than anything else. I'm not really here to make that claim though, regarding any attainment that I have, so feel free to discredit it."
Why did you bring it up at all? Not necessary for your specific question. (Or is it? I don't know.)
"After many years of experience with my HGA, and many doubts about my own attainment regarding that communication, I decided that it was time for me to learn the name of my HGA. Problem is that I felt I could not trust any experience in which this name could come to me and any experience regarding the reception of this name would immediately be cast in doubt."
"How would I know that it's the true name of my angel and not my own delusion? or, what if it is the name of some other intelligence, but something else that would want to trick me into thinking it's my angel?"
I think someone who has attained K&C should have that kind of thing sorted out, no?
"I freely admit I have a poor record of any reliable practice, which makes me even more skeptical regarding any experience I have."
Makes me skeptical too.
"In the height of this ceremonial experience, I was presented with her name. I say her name because the name is clearly female. And it was presented to me in such a way that in no way (at the time) could I doubt it's accuracy."
That's more like it...
"So - I still dont know what to make of it! It's been about a year since this experience. I am hoping I can get some insight, or perhaps point me in a direction or path or two - how can one come to determine the name of their HGA? At what point in the path of an aspirant does the name come to reveal itself? Am I missing something or just stuck in my head over it?"
What's a name good for? An Adept would be in good place to decide that.
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I'm sorry, if you presented me with something helpful here I am not sure I understood.
If you did provide something helpful, anyway you could make it a little clearer?
Maybe you could share with us your knowledge of the naming of the angel, at what path it presents itself, what ordeals are involved, etc etc - maybe that you experienced personally? I have a rather unorthodox approach so maybe you could explain it like I'm 5. although thelema has been a profound part of my life for close to 20 years, I am not involved with any order work or set of practices and probably not going to be at this stage of my life. that being said, I am quite happy with my progress
I'm just sifting through my experiences and questioning them, probably brought on by Los' posts about experiences and explanatory power.
I am curious to hear the more orthodox or formal understandings of the name of the HGA from the more advanced community and hoping you can help.
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As Soror Meral used to say: OK, you have your revelation. Now prove it in your life!
What have been the consequences of your knowing this name?
Has it brought you closer to Her? Farther away? No change?
Has the relationship altered significantly? (I'm looking here for any sense that, "Oops, are we sure this is the same 'person' we knew before?" If not... if the relationship is substantially the same as one in which you already had confidence for some time... then there is no real risk in "going for it.")
You say the name incorporates everything the Angel has whispered to you for over a decade. That's a good sign. Additionally, what does the name disclose about you? Does it disclose a basic formula of your Work, or some other revelatory key of your nature?
If you have had an intimate relationship with this being for over a decade, and every instinct persists that this is authentic, and the relationship appears continuous from what it was in the past - and especially if the name has also disclosed something important and synthetic to you - then you're in a good place to "go for it."
Understand that you can accept the name without presupposing that "the quest is over." You can continue to seek deeper understanding of the name, deeper clarification of what it is telling you. Having this name does not presuppose you won't get something more (or other) later - after all, you could meet someone named Jeri and only discover years later that her name was really Jerilynn, or that Jeri was her middle name and she's really Annabelle, or that you had the letter wrong and it's really a nickname for Geraldine. - Perhaps you get the point. There can still be deeper mysteries, or deeper understanding of the disclosed mysteries.
Bottom line, though... you're the only one in a place to know for sure.
PS - There is no fixed "place" or stage where this disclosure occurs. I've known adepts who received the name on the first occasion of full K&C. I knew mine by about half-way to that goal, i.e., by early in 3=8; and I've known others who received the name at a similar early stage.
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@ldfriend56 said
"I'm sorry, if you presented me with something helpful here I am not sure I understood.
If you did provide something helpful, anyway you could make it a little clearer?"
I say in good faith that I tried. Maybe it didn't help, but I took a shot. (My point was to make you think, and not necessarily to give a direct answer.)
"Maybe you could share with us your knowledge of the naming of the angel, at what path it presents itself, what ordeals are involved, etc etc - maybe that you experienced personally?"
Hardly. Not in this life at least.
(To be fair, you did ask specifically the "more advanced community," in which I'm not included, but I figured my response wouldn't harm you at all.)
I just fail to see how a name can be a big deal to someone already with K&C. In any case you got your quality response above.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"PS - There is no fixed "place" or stage where this disclosure occurs. I've known adepts who received the name on the first occasion of full K&C. I knew mine by about half-way to that goal, i.e., by early in 3=8; and I've known others who received the name at a similar early stage."
It's interesting that Crowley didn't get the name of his HGA all at once. He got the name "Aiwass" when the Book of the Law was revealed, but he didn't know that this was his HGA. Then, he wasn't sure how to spell it, so he didn't really know what formula it represented. Early on, he found a spelling that equaled 78 and worked with that. Then he found a spelling that was 418. Only after quite a few years did he discover, in a striking "synchronicity," a spelling that equaled 93. Aiwass was able to use this name to communicate different ideas to his Holy Guarded Human at different times over a number of years, presumably just when they were needed.
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@gmugmble said
"Aiwass was able to use this name to communicate different ideas to his Holy Guarded Human at different times over a number of years, presumably just when they were needed."
Now I'm picturing various angels gathered together and discussing....
"When did you get the name of your HGH?"
"Have you achieved K&C of the HGH yet?"
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Wow, this was extremely helpful Jim! Thank you so much. I am going to respond to each point below, but mainly for my own integration/edification, I know your busy so you have helped me plenty, no need to respond more unless you think I need a good thunk on the head. I've learned so much just from reflecting on your questions.
@Jim Eshelman said
"As Soror Meral used to say: OK, you have your revelation. Now prove it in your life!
What have been the consequences of your knowing this name?"
A sense of a richer connection and focus for prayer.
"Has it brought you closer to Her? Farther away? No change?"
I guess this is the part that puts me in my head over it. There are times (which are few) where I have called upon her and there was no doubt as to her presence. There are times when I feel the guide from this source is present although subtle in my frame of experience. And there are other times when I call, and for some reason she is absent in my experience.
I basically dont believe I am properly managing this relationship. I feel I need to step up to the plate a bit, and to be honest I can't say I have the clarity to know which way to go. Maybe something to pray on and focus my intention on with her I guess.
As I understand, all prayers to any source are really prayers to the HGA. I wish I understood more of what to do with that knowledge.
"Has the relationship altered significantly? (I'm looking here for any sense that, "Oops, are we sure this is the same 'person' we knew before?" If not... if the relationship is substantially the same as one in which you already had confidence for some time... then there is no real risk in "going for it.")"
I would say I have more certainty internally speaking - but basically I sense that's it's not progressed because I have not stepped up to the plate like I should.
"You say the name incorporates everything the Angel has whispered to you for over a decade. That's a good sign. Additionally, what does the name disclose about you? Does it disclose a basic formula of your Work, or some other revelatory key of your nature?"
YES. Her name is also a key as to how I can detect her presence, as the name also carries with it the signifier that her message must also contain. I am not sure if that makes sense or not.
"If you have had an intimate relationship with this being for over a decade, and every instinct persists that this is authentic, and the relationship appears continuous from what it was in the past - and especially if the name has also disclosed something important and synthetic to you - then you're in a good place to "go for it.""
This helps! It really helps me see that I am somehow holding something back, and that harmonizing more with this relationship should become more of a focused intention. thank you so much for this.
"Understand that you can accept the name without presupposing that "the quest is over." You can continue to seek deeper understanding of the name, deeper clarification of what it is telling you. Having this name does not presuppose you won't get something more (or other) later - after all, you could meet someone named Jeri and only discover years later that her name was really Jerilynn, or that Jeri was her middle name and she's really Annabelle, or that you had the letter wrong and it's really a nickname for Geraldine. - Perhaps you get the point. There can still be deeper mysteries, or deeper understanding of the disclosed mysteries."
SO VERY HELPFUL!
"Bottom line, though... you're the only one in a place to know for sure.
PS - There is no fixed "place" or stage where this disclosure occurs. I've known adepts who received the name on the first occasion of full K&C. I knew mine by about half-way to that goal, i.e., by early in 3=8; and I've known others who received the name at a similar early stage."
Interesting!
Jim you have done a wonderful service here I cannot thank you enough
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@Patrick Ossoski said
"(To be fair, you did ask specifically the "more advanced community," in which I'm not included, but I figured my response wouldn't harm you at all.)
I just fail to see how a name can be a big deal to someone already with K&C. In any case you got your quality response above."
Well I appreciate your time, certainly no harm in your prodding.
I appreciate your question. For me I can only say that personally - there is absolutely no question in my mind that I have not had direct contact and communication with my HGA - but because I never directly performed any specific rite, ritual, ceremony etc etc for that particular attainment, just integrating the experience and working through my own process of doubt was a lot of work. I realized that the entire time, I never once even thought of asking for a name (after many many years) nor was I aware a name was ever given. Realizing that, it actually made me re-question the entire experience (even though it had already proven it's utility). Also for the past few years I have been working more with indigenous traditions which I have become fascinated with. Recently I had a guide from a north american tradition tell me that in their tradition, they ask for a name, and if no name is ever given, they ignore the guide. I am not sure how much validity that has any other traditions, but that's when it occurred to me to ask for a name. I set my intention, said my prayer, and in a ceremonial setting inside of an indigenous tradition was when it was revealed.