Trembling?
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@Laura Marx said
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EDIT: You know, it's funny. Both of your answers remind me of the quote of my signature - 'I cannot love without trembling'!"When I saw the name of this topic, my first thought was "Fear and trembling" by Kierkegaard?!. It's the fear and trembling of naked human soul standing before Absolute which is Transcendence (the ultimate Other, God as un-knowable, unreachable by rational mind) that S.Kierkegaard speaks about there, in a poetic manner ('cause there is no other way to speak of these experiences) and under the pseudonym Johannes de Silentio
Soror AoD, reading your answer made me realize that - yes, all these trembling-experiences were essentially manifestations of Love - "For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union" - appearing upon deep and personal encounter with the Other; there is intimacy and union, but yet, there is the uncrossable difference also, which makes the union possible. As if - the body needs to dance
It definitely did me a lot of good when I started dancing more and more freely
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The third film in the Three Colors trilogy, Red, has a character expressing this experience--that tingling sense of proximity to fate and truth and coincidence.
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"And pulled to shore by a goddess, too!"
Yes! Yes, exactly! Maybe a total reversal of that story in Fear and Trembling, I am the demon at the bottom of the ocean and Agnes pulls me out so I may repent. Hehehe
"When I saw the name of this topic, my first thought was "Fear and trembling" by Kierkegaard?!"
Yes! Beloved Kierkegaard is why I picked trembling, why the word trembling is in my signature, and so on. I haven't actually gotten to read F&T yet, or any actual Kierkegaard. I've only begun my studies and so I've only read a second-hand piece of literature, by the great Irish philosopher Arland Ussher. Perhaps this feeling is Ingeborg looking back over the sea and saying, 'Has the day, the sea seen thy face?'
Anyway, you put it all so beautifully, Kierkegaard and this trembling. It's funny you should mention him, you know. I mentioned to you in my last response that I began to feel this feeling after I sorted out some nonsense and went through a great personal upheaval, and this mostly took the form of unlearning various kinds of bigotry & harmful attitudes as a result of growing up in protestant schools - internalized or not-so - and confronting that. Blah blah... I realized just now reviewing my notes of Ussher's commentary, the method I was using corresponds exactly to Kierkegaard's 'ethical stage,' trembling before the Other Person. It seems as soon as I had learned to tremble before the Other, I am seized by and tremble before the Supreme Other! God-as-Unknowable, as you say. Yes! Phenomenal. That goes along with Agnes and the Merman, too, I think. You'll know better than I do.
" "For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union""
That quote! I'm sorry to eavesdrop, but I've seen that once before on this forum, and it is so beautiful. What is it from?
"The third film in the Three Colors trilogy, Red, has a character expressing this experience--that tingling sense of proximity to fate and truth and coincidence."
Ah, wow! That sounds really good, I'll definitely watch it. It seems there is plenty of this feeling around.
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I tremble, shudder, and weep -
Lost in the excess of the excess
Passing of the Word on high
Down through the bowels
To the feet where I lieSuch is what it means to be possessed
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Possessed!
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"For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union." (AL I:29)
I laughed when you wrote about me and my fidelity.....
I never thought of myself that way, but I am.
Recently I had this very peculiar shift happen to me, I can't pin point exactly what happened, but since it has to do with this trembling possession energized love thing, I'll share it with you all.
Now, I have a tremendous sexual appetite. I think I even have most men beat. When I mean sex, though it's not the primal penis/vagina porn kinda stuff. Everything on this plane ,at least to me, can be reduced to sex. I have been pretty focused on only allowing myself to get sexually aroused physically by certain specific qualifications of a potential mate. You know, sort of like a fetish, but my brush was just really broad, like it had to be a man, with a job, and a car....just simple things...
Over my years though, these stringint qualities that I self imposed upon my ability to get aroused or feel in love changed. When I was a very you g girl, I was very turned on by guys with black hair for example. But over time, motivator as I became exposed to more and more types of people, I started to like brown hair, and blondes. Ect ect.
I have always been extremely orgasmic, probably due to my sex drive and nervous system wiring. This feeling of love that I choose is similar to an orgasm, but more like you are right on the plateau....almost there. Now some may say, oh you shouldn't stay in that state long....but well everyone hAs there own coping skills, and if mine is thinking how some thing is an aspect of the Divine, and how much I love the Divine and get all trembling and have a great day, and work hard and serve the greater good like I want to. Then Do What Thou Wilt right.
So what has happened to me over the years, is that those self imposed restrictions of my bliss. Of being open to seeing the Divine in everything, in everyone....and wanting to give them my love (which is the really fun part;) ) has been stripped away. I had a dream, which is so personal and counter culture that I haven't even shared it here, but in this dream I believe one of my last restrictions to bliss was stripped away, and ever since then.....don't take this wrong way, guys Espicially, because y'all know I absolutely worship your differences from me, but ever since that dream I do not need any physical stimulation to get off, so to speak. I want the physical, but I can bring about the exact same thing, in my own being. (or at least it sure feels like it).
Since this last stripping away, I had something strange happen to me, guys are really gonna love this....
But well, this is strange to say, but.....I'll just spit it out....I could and would easily have sex with a women now. Never, ever would I have thought about doing that before, because well the world is filled with yummy guys I would love to shagg, but this feeling that I have now, this deeper stronger trembling of love, which came about by me slowly stripping away my own restrictions on what I found attractive, by slowly accepting everyone as Divine and worthy of Love, deserving of Love....liberates me to see Love is the Law in a completely different level.The strangest thing about this shift, which was just like waking up one day, and saying I think Ill be bisexual from now on, Was that I had several married men come on to me, very strongly in a short period of time. To each one I told that I would love to screw them, but I would never hurt a Sister by doing anything behind her back, and that he was looking, she probably needs a good shagging too, so I would have sex with them both. Well, they turned tale and ran away.
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@Angel of Death said
"The strangest thing about this shift, which was just like waking up one day, and saying I think Ill be bisexual from now on, Was that I had several married men come on to me, very strongly in a short period of time. To each one I told that I would love to screw them, but I would never hurt a Sister by doing anything behind her back, and that he was looking, she probably needs a good shagging too, so I would have sex with them both. Well, they turned tale and ran away."
This is why I love you, Veronica, or Angel of Death, whathaveyou.It all sounds so very Binah to me, y'know, this whole "casting off restrictions" business
I share your perspective on everything being sex, though, in one way or another. Everything. Really.
Concerning the OT, I too have experienced great trembling. A sort of "too real" sensation. That is when I breathe and establish the Middle Pillar. Shoot right out the top, as it goes!
Sublimate, sublimate, sublimate.
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Whathaveyou?
You have changed your name more then me!I love you too
I wanted to clarify one thing,
I am not insinuating sexual preferences are a choice.
Implying for example that gays choose to be gay.
I am meaning for me, now
I am capable of giving and receiving love from anyone I choose.
I consciously chose to not see women as sexual partners.
But, it's hard enough for me to find people who can and will have sex with me,
So that behavior (restriction) doesn't serve me anymore. -
[fans self down] [adjusts collar]
Hey... Great post...
I'm joking of course
It's funny though, the way you characterize it as a much looser thing, something that came to you as a result of your Work, not because of... well, whatever agency is usually responsible for sexuality. I wonder if other people have experienced a change in sexuality on the Path? I used to identify as bisexual, and I am still attracted to men, but I'd find it hard to be with a man I think. No offense Mecsen! I identify as lesbian - but of course it's never that simple. On the Kinsey Scale I'm a 4 (Chesed?) I guess. Unlike you I have almost no sexual appetite though, ahaha! I am given much more to romance, I guess.@Mecsen: I get what you mean about the 'too real' sensation. Everything becomes very here and very now. It's the opposite of some epileptic fits or panic attacks I used to get (my brain is a minefield!) where I would get a flash of sudden loss of ego and then an incredible feeling of everything being not real, a terrible nightmarish illusion. The fear, rather than the trembling, perhaps. It was the most horrible thing! It was like, I was not even ready for Yesod, and I was knocked full-body in Kether. These two feelings are total opposites, and it's not until I read your post - 'too real' - it reminded me of the other, 'not real'. I wonder if they're related.
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@Angel of Death said
"Now, I have a tremendous sexual appetite. I think I even have most men beat. When I mean sex, though it's not the primal penis/vagina porn kinda stuff. Everything on this plane ,at least to me, can be reduced to sex. I have been pretty focused on only allowing myself to get sexually aroused physically by certain specific qualifications of a potential mate. You know, sort of like a fetish, but my brush was just really broad, like it had to be a man, with a job, and a car....just simple things..."
Are you familiar with pan-sexuality?
A "pan-sexual" is a person whose notions of sex and sexuality are unrestricted by gender or activity. -
@Laura Marx said
"I wonder if other people have experienced a change in sexuality on the Path?"
That's an interesting question, because since embarking on the path more .. solidly, I guess .. I have nudged a little bit towards bisexuality. I've never been very discriminating really, but it does seem the last of the false inhibitions and mental structures have been blown away. The androgynous nature of the Godhead as a whole certainly appeals to me and it might be that working its magic. That said, I've only felt sexually stirred by women (until now anyway) and it is the feminine that I cherish in that sense. It has that lovely that way of moving me, which is utterly absent from masculinity. The other side certainly has its merits as well (even aesthetically), but they don't really map onto sexual activity for me.
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"Are you familiar with pan-sexuality?
A "pan-sexual" is a person whose notions of sex and sexuality are unrestricted by gender or activity."Yes! One of my girlfriends identifies as pansexual, and I've been with a lot of pansexual girls in the past. (Once, I was becoming intimate with a pansexual girl, and I told my girlfriend about her & that she was pansexual, and she said totally seriously 'Oh! You guys must be having a lot of fun with pots of pans then' [snicker])
But, I don't identify as pansexual. When I called myself bisexual, I would describe it as feeling as though I had two sexualities, one for male and one for female, which I experienced very differently. A non-binary gender person would probably have shaken that up completely, but I never met anybody like that then. (Though, one of my lovers identifies as non-binary, she presents as totally female, so it doesn't quake my comfortable expectations - perhaps in the future).
"The androgynous nature of the Godhead as a whole certainly appeals to me and it might be that working its magic."
Yeah, definitely, I like that. Perhaps you're not necessarily attracted to men, but not only women? And the path has opened you up to other notions of gender? The devotion to an androgynous God could abet the desire of an androgynous person. In Indian art they have a Mood (of Navarasha, a way of composing Indian art) which is said to be 'longing for a God or a Lover', called Karuna - as Ravi Shankar says of it, "Hindus tend to elevate the mortal love into Divine love, so the beloved can be an ordinary human being or often a god such as Krishna or Shiva." (I think there's a similar thing in some African religions, where a person is said to be a 'horse' of a particular Lwa?) Regardless - it's all very interesting!
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My experience with the Lwa is less of a romantic love and more of a deep kinship and paternal love from my head spirit. That is not to say that the feelings are not deep, the thought of being ridden by him excites me in an indescribable way.
The more I work with him the deeper the bond becomes, and the more like him I become.
"I am your horse! I am your horse! Come to me, your son calls you!"
The chant is something like that.
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@Uni_Verse said
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@Angel of Death said
"Now, I have a tremendous sexual appetite. I think I even have most men beat. When I mean sex, though it's not the primal penis/vagina porn kinda stuff. Everything on this plane ,at least to me, can be reduced to sex. I have been pretty focused on only allowing myself to get sexually aroused physically by certain specific qualifications of a potential mate. You know, sort of like a fetish, but my brush was just really broad, like it had to be a man, with a job, and a car....just simple things..."Are you familiar with pan-sexuality?
A "pan-sexual" is a person whose notions of sex and sexuality are unrestricted by gender or activity."Definately, I resonate with that more so then bisexual. I would even say I could kick that label to the curb too, I think I'm a little more unrestricted then that.
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Ah, gosh, I replied to Uni_verse, and they were not asking me
whoops"My experience with the Lwa is less of a romantic love and more of a deep kinship and paternal love from my head spirit. That is not to say that the feelings are not deep, the thought of being ridden by him excites me in an indescribable way.
The more I work with him the deeper the bond becomes, and the more like him I become.
"I am your horse! I am your horse! Come to me, your son calls you!"
The chant is something like that."
Ah! Thank you for commenting, Rocky! Yeah, I didn't think it was quite the same or anything. That sounds really wonderful, though, that feeling. Is there ever a romantic, or even sexual, relationship with a Lwa, in voodoo? I had read somewhere - but of course, as you would attest, reading things about voodoo are seldom accurate - that Marinette is far more sexual in the way she feels. I have heard stories of devoted Marinette worshipers in the south of Haiti who throw themselves full-bodied onto bonfires for her! But I am not sure if I am to believe such things.
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"Ah! Thank you for commenting, Rocky! Yeah, I didn't think it was quite the same or anything. That sounds really wonderful, though, that feeling. Is there ever a romantic, or even sexual, relationship with a Lwa, in voodoo? I had read somewhere - but of course, as you would attest, reading things about voodoo are seldom accurate - that Marinette is far more sexual in the way she feels. I have heard stories of devoted Marinette worshipers in the south of Haiti who throw themselves full-bodied onto bonfires for her! But I am not sure if I am to believe such things."
Actually, there are many levels of relationships people have with the Lwa, from romantic to sexual. The Lwa crave experience be it food, attention, partying, and sex. Marianette is a very sexual Lwa that has darker tastes in her appetite, of which I will not go into any more detail. The level of devotion for the Lwa is tremendous by those who have faith in the religion, they perform true miracles and not just the feats they display during possession. Some people marry certain Lwa for various benefits including but not limited luck and prosperity. Having homes devoted to the spirits and practicing chastity for the spirit's day of devotion is common as well. Houngans and Mambos will not often admit to the depth of the relationships they have with the Lwa because most people would not understand. They are less like spirits and more like human beings in their tastes and manifestations. I'm sorry I can't directly answer your question, but I can tell you that you are not far off base. There are some that will deny such things, but I tell you they exist.