Grace
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"There is no grace: there is no guilt:
This is the Law: DO WHAT THOU WILT!"-LIBER XLIV
THE MASS OF THE PHOENIXHow does this idea of grace fit into the new aeon (does it have a qabbalistic correspondence) , is there a new idea of grace in the new aeon? Or is it a part of the old aeon and part of a useless belief system? Or is this only meant to be a part of this ritual meaning to avoid either extreme,grace being one and guilt being the other?
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Sometimes stuff happen to me without conscience effort to cause it. Maybe it can be called grace, or luck.
More on the mystical side, I do not know if there can be said that the SAG has a particular volition to act on me without I somehow allowing it. In practice it seems that it is not only possible but part of the natural communication between me and my Angel. That can be rightly called Grace. -
Some stuff seems to be particularly intended to undo a particular form of God-programming (read: super-ego programming).
I've bent my head around it a few times, and I know what I consider grace, what feels like grace to me. Nuit's entire chapter comes to mind for grace. The dire judgements of RHK for guilt. But there's also a form of theological enslavement that needs to be overcome in people's minds - if they are to take the next step.
In practice, it invokes a particular kind of relationship with the ..um... All. I guess I'm trying to say there's probably more than a few of us able to think the opposite thought as well, yet this is the given method of deprogramming, imho.
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I always find it fascinating that people take passages from The Book of Lies - which outright presents itself as (at best) not using words and language in their normal, rational fashion - and tries to discuss them as if they were reasoned content.
The first thing to get about anything in Liber 333 is that it is either untrue (in any conventional sense), or has components not logically connected in the usual way, or (at the very least) is a sincere effort by Crowley to completely fuck with his own head and thus with yours. The Book of Lies isn't a text book, it's an exercise in attempting to train himself in trans-Abyss "thinking."
And one certainly shouldn't assume that any statement in it is necessarily true or, for that matter, that it isn't.
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hmm yeah I totally think the standard Christian idea of vicarious atonement type of grace is false . But I am open to a idea of grace like being maybe you get some insight from your HGA without conscious effort or something similar... I like to relate things to the tree of life now . So this kind of grace i mentioned, would it be in Tiphareth?
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The Qabbalistic idea of grace is as follows: The Hebrew word "grace" is spelled ChN. This is exactly backwards from Noah, NCh, who "found grace." It is what Noah found.
And ChN is the notariqon (abbreviation) of the Hebrew phrase meaning, "The Secret Wisdom," i.e., that which is received through the deep practice of Qabbalah.
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This very question has been in my mind for some time. I thank you for posting it? Isn't tolerance developed because of grace? And because of this liberal application of this type of acceptance also arise from such practice? How also can the rest of humanity can also benefit from the application of this same type tolerance and grace?
But then on another writer could it also have been applied when it was said the only sin is restrction. To cease restrictions takes a measure of that tolerant grace... -
When I hear the word "grace" I immediately connect it, as an idea, to Chesed.
In any case, if you want to go deeper into the essential concept of any word, look into its etymology.
And bear in mind that the particular meaning of a word depends largely on the context. -
"Quote Raven27: How does this idea of grace fit into the new aeon (does it have a qabalistic correspondence) , is there a new idea of grace in the new aeon? Or is it a part of the old aeon and part of a useless belief system? Or is this only meant to be a part of this ritual meaning to avoid either extreme, grace being one and guilt being the other?"
I thought it was worth mentioning that as a double letter, Peh (The Tower Atu-16) is attributed to Grace & Sin, "because the issues of life, directed by human speech, result in one or the other. Sin, or 'missing the mark,' results in maladjustment and ugliness. Hitting the mark in right action results in the manifestation of beauty." Also, it is interesting that Grace and Sin are attributed to the Mars force through The Tower Atu-16. Its function is attributed to the stage of spiritual unfoldment called Awakening
"Quote JAE: The Qabbalistic idea of grace is as follows: The Hebrew word "grace" is spelled ChN. This is exactly backwards from Noah, NCh, who "found grace." It is what Noah found.
And ChN is the notariqon (abbreviation) of the Hebrew phrase meaning, "The Secret Wisdom," i.e., that which is received through the deep practice of Qabbalah."Jim may I ask which phrase you are mentioning?
BTW, thanks for Col {1508} in 776 ½
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@Ankh said
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"Quote JAE: The Qabbalistic idea of grace is as follows: The Hebrew word "grace" is spelled ChN. This is exactly backwards from Noah, NCh, who "found grace." It is what Noah found.
And ChN is the notariqon (abbreviation) of the Hebrew phrase meaning, "The Secret Wisdom," i.e., that which is received through the deep practice of Qabbalah."Jim may I ask which phrase you are mentioning?"
Chokmah Nistarah.
"BTW, thanks for Col {1508} in 776 ½
""Psychological Attributions." You're welcome
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In examining this concept, it might be best examined outside any religious context. Not in that we must pay or sacrifice a part of humaness, as an atonement for sins, or i have to do something in order to get something...
When we examine the sins found in such books as the scriptures i understand them to be acts arising from the ego? Maybe not all but some.
Ego is mankinds greatest challenge, i often can see this being the base of these 'sins' that the alledged holy book says mankind need atonement for. -
@Barrackubus said
"In examining this concept, it might be best examined outside any religious context. Not in that we must pay or sacrifice a part of humaness, as an atonement for sins, or i have to do something in order to get something...
When we examine the sins found in such books as the scriptures i understand them to be acts arising from the ego? Maybe not all but some.
Ego is mankinds greatest challenge, i often can see this being the base of these 'sins' that the alledged holy book says mankind need atonement for."Okay, I'm going to interject here. I feel some of you are over complicating the statement.
First, "Grace" in the Christian context means "gift of forgiveness." Other than believe in it, one is not required to "do" a thing at all. Repentance would be nice, but alas it is claimed that no one is expected to be perfect.
Second, "guilt" is simply put. We all know what guilt is. We don't need to dissect the word at all.
In Thelema "there is no Grace" because "there is no guilt."
All there is is "Do what thou Wilt."So, if you Wilt and appear by outward standards to "make a mistake," it is the outer examiners who are wrong, because alas you are learning and growing and ever increasing the wealth of your Wisdom and Knowledge.
"There is no grace: there is no guilt:
This is the Law: DO WHAT THOU WILT!" -
@Jim Eshelman said
"I always find it fascinating that people take passages from The Book of Lies - which outright presents itself as (at best) not using words and language in their normal, rational fashion - and tries to discuss them as if they were reasoned content.
The first thing to get about anything in Liber 333 is that it is either untrue (in any conventional sense), or has components not logically connected in the usual way, or (at the very least) is a sincere effort by Crowley to completely {****} with his own head and thus with yours. The Book of Lies isn't a text book, it's an exercise in attempting to train himself in trans-Abyss "thinking."
And one certainly shouldn't assume that any statement in it is necessarily true or, for that matter, that it isn't."
That's helpful.
"No grace, no sin" across the Abyss, disconnected from the world of form.
But in the world of form, relationships are subjective and variable.