Male Thelemites; Are we meant to be alpha males?
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Exactly. We're meant to be what we are, each inherently.
Some are Alphas, some are Betas, and some are Omegas.
Presuming a world where 100% of people are Thelemites, everybody can't be alpha. Nor would everyone want to be.
Thelema calls on us to be what we inherently are - localized in her current incarnation and as our immortal selves.
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I was thinking that no one is inherently an "alpha" or "beta" male. Different situations and circumstances may make any man assume that animal role. Humans cannot be human if they play animal-pack games. Pack leader and follower, ultimately is for the lesser animals.
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I think the concept of "alpha" is nonsense.
It comes from nonsense science (claiming that there are alpha wolves that lead wolf packs, when in reality most wolf-packs are families, and the "alpha male" is just the dad wolf trying to make sure all the kids have a fair share of the food) and is used to mean different things in different contexts (sometimes it means an aggressive guy, sometimes a calm guy, sometimes a guy who has sex with conventionally attractive women, sometimes a guy who makes a lot of money, sometimes the guy who can bench-press the most--basically it morphs depending on the context).
So, I'd have to wonder what you meant by "alpha".
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@Avshalom Binyamin said
"I think the concept of "alpha" is nonsense.
It comes from nonsense science (claiming that there are alpha wolves that lead wolf packs, when in reality most wolf-packs are families, and the "alpha male" is just the dad wolf trying to make sure all the kids have a fair share of the food) and is used to mean different things in different contexts (sometimes it means an aggressive guy, sometimes a calm guy, sometimes a guy who has sex with conventionally attractive women, sometimes a guy who makes a lot of money, sometimes the guy who can bench-press the most--basically it morphs depending on the context).
So, I'd have to wonder what you meant by "alpha"."
What the common cultural usage is, that's what I meant.
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But as a fluid idea, not a real thing, like calling someone "cool"--it has internal contradictions, and no real human could ever match up to it 100% of the time.
So without a more specific example, my answer would be: I'm sure there are circumstances where it would be appropriate for a Thelemite to engage in behaviors that some would call "alpha".
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I don't think any Thelemite is 'meant' to be anything other than what they naturally are so long as what they naturally are truly is their true nature and not merely the outcome of the perpetuation of bad habits which restrict the True Will.
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Well, it's relative to a group.
Theoretically, there's no such thing as two alpha males in any group - defeats the whole concept.
I mean, I'm not attached to this. I just keep getting stuck on the conflation between a particular group and its one alpha versus a list of qualities that are associated with "alpha-ness." The qualities depend entirely on the particular group and it's goals.
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@Hermitas said
"Well, it's relative to a group.
Theoretically, there's no such thing as two alpha males in any group - defeats the whole concept.
."On the contrary, "the group" (of betas) define the alpha by being beta. So the belief goes anyway. This is glaringly obvious in canines and primates........ but that's canines and primates. Am beginning to think this is semantic and circular.
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@gerry456 said
"The Horus Child appears to be conterminous with breaking up and destroying the post-Isisian Dominator society ( a la Terence McKenna's philosophy) but as male Thelemites are we meant to be alpha males? Is this a contradiction?"
Being an alpha isn't all it's cracked up to be
Plus also: comparative advantage.
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I think its bio chemical and others recognize a change in biochemistry and react accordingly. Maybe its a question of testosterone which, is enhanced naturally by the root, ginger and also by Liber E yoga. Low testosterone males feel like sh1t, are aggressive. This is all totally in line with Liber Al.
If science could produce a testosterone-boosting chemical and every man took it then every man would be an alpha male. It's as if a higher level testosterone entity is dictating Liber Al.
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@gerry456 said
"I think its bio chemical and others recognize a change in biochemistry and react accordingly. Maybe its a question of testosterone which, is enhanced naturally by the root, ginger and also by Liber E yoga. Low testosterone males feel like sh1t, are aggressive. This is all totally in line with Liber Al.
If science could produce a testosterone-boosting chemical and every man took it then every man would be an alpha male. It's as if a higher level testosterone entity is dictating Liber Al."
Agree with what you're saying about symptoms of low testosterone.
As a matter of interest, most things called "steroids" are actually just testosterone.
The problem with "Test" as it's called is that when you take it into the body via the liver, the body thinks "oh, lots of testosterone, don't need to produce any", with the paradoxical result that the amount of oestrogen (the quintessential female hormone) it normally produces (all males produce some) looms larger in proportion, and that's why bodybuilders get man-boobs, shrinking dick, etc. (I might be mis-remembering a bit, but the process is something like this.)
It's curious that it results in a sort of androgyne body. The body and psyche still have intensely masculine features as a result of all that test flooding the system, and of course it's a silly myth that bodybuilders aren't strong - they're immensely strong, they're just not quite as strong as dedicated sport weightlifters or "strongmen". It's just curious that there are also strongly marked female features present too.
I think we'll probably need a lot more scientific knowledge before we can alter our bodies and even sex at will like the characters in John Varley's s-f novels. The body is such a complex thing with so many layers and interwoven systems, that messing about with it in a direct mechanistic way usually causes some kind of problem. It's like the old black and white comedy sketch of closing a drawer in a chest of drawers, and the lower drawer pops out, then you close that one and another one pops out.
Eventually we will be protean to some extent, able to assume any shape or form at will or at need. Superheroes, in effect (this one strong enough to lift anything, this one invulnerable to most forms of harm, this one with the capability of projecting rays of various kinds, this one capable of living unaided in outer space, etc., etc.). One curiosity is that if it's going to be possible to create a beautiful body at the drop of a hat, deliberate ugliness will occasionally be fashionable.
Excuse me, I'm drifting away from the topic
I don't think we're "meant" to be alpha males according to Liber AL, and I really don't think there's any particular value in the alpha over the beta or the omega, they all have functions in the economy of a human society, with their particular burdens and particular privileges. And the quality and creative power of the mind and spirit (barring some imbalance as you say) isn't really relevant to that purely social aspect of life. You can have geniuses in all three forms.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
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Let's say for argument that Liber Al was dictated by a human male, particularly chapters 2 and 3. These are not the words of a man with low (LOW just to stress the point) testosterone. In fact there are sections which explicitly shun such males; "we are not for the weak and unfit", "the outcast" "despise all cowards , professional soldiers who will not fight", "stamp down the wretched and the weak" "fear nothing, not men not etc" and there's a lot of talk of strength and vigour and courage. Crowley was an admirer of Islam due to it's culture of manly vigour and pain endurance. It's strange (and I know from first hand experience) but most Muslim males have a macho attitude, not mysoginist or cruel but just a down to earth aversion for any wussy or weak or effeminate behaviour in a male and this goes across all classes. In the west this is sort of tolerated and effeminancy is even a virtue in some quarters.
I'm not arguing for massive testosterone production just a balance so the testosterone is functioning properly. As we know from the TOL, any excess or scarcity is "evil" QLPthc.
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@gerry456 said
"Crowley was an admirer of Islam due to it's culture of manly vigour and pain endurance."
- Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!
- With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.
52. I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him. - With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din.
- Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds.
"Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no sharp correction as "Jesus." It is his face = his outward semblance - that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty." - Crowley, The Law is For All. (italics my own)
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Again, I don't think there's that much of a connection between the alpha/beta/omega categorization and testoterone/courage, etc., etc., as such. They're connected tangentially but not correlated.
Testosterone is to do with gender specific traits, the alpha/beta/omega categorization is to do with social instincts and social heirarchy.
Certainly someone with low test couldn't be an alpha, but that doesn't mean good test level is a sign of alpha-ness, nor does it mean that low test is a sign of beta-ness. (For instance, a military commander whose troops were low test wouldn't get very far in war. And any of his soldiers who are beta in relation to him could be alpha in relation to others in other circumstances.)
If anything, the mark of a true alpha is charisma, leadership quality, inspiration. Test is only needed if and when there is a challenge.
Language has some potentially misleading looseness here.