How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?
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It was during my marriage. I was married at age 32. A few years after that I started meditating after a few years of what I now know or understand as the middle pillar exercise the life changing event of KCHGA occurred , so I would say it was around 34 to 35 or sso I'm 46 now.
Also during that time I didn't know anything about no grades or anything Thelema.93
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@Barrackubus said
"It was during my marriage. I was married at age 32. A few years after that I started meditating after a few years of what I now know or understand as the middle pillar exercise the life changing event of KCHGA occurred , so I would say it was around 34 to 35 or sso I'm 46 now.
Also during that time I didn't know anything about no grades or anything Thelema.93
211"What was it? Knowledge of course but"conversation" a la Jean D'Arc?
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@gerry456 said
"The knowledge and conversation of the HGA is said to be the end result of arduous enflamed prayer to that end usually 6 months of practically dropping out from society?
How do you know did it right?"
It may and probably does require oodles of alone time. But it may be better also seen as what it is or what is being done during those times or that one is alone. But in fairness the length of time to attain may be different for all. It also maybe more significant to some in it maybe more beneficial towards attainment in consideration of the length of time one may need to reconcile all the polarities within the aspects of our individual lives up to the moment we are now at in order to seek attainment. And this is the process that to myself might take the length of time needed. While going through this gate one might subject to reconsider things forgotten, remembered or believed for what ever reasons that they themselves may have thought to be right or correct only to find it not to be as thought was.
Undoing all that mental, environmental and any kind of "programming" can be a long and grueling process my strongest and most intimate advice to be honest and fair with every aspect and perception you may encounter within the grasps of yourself.93
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Meditation.
"People who say the most, know the least" has always served me well. But if you do like to talk, misleading people either intentionally or unintentionally can usually be a learning experience for both parties.I was 25 when my head met the guillotine.
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As was said at the opening of the second chapter, the Single Supreme Ritual is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. It is the raising of the complete man in a vertical straight line...Any other operation is black magic...If the magician needs to perform any other operation than this, it is only lawful in so far as it is a necessary preliminary to That One Work.
@gerry456 said
"Also if I may ask the folk who attained. How is your knowledge and conversation of the HGA experience different to a new ager who ask his entities for practical solutions to his problems?"
Sorry but the Crowley quote kind of pasted in the wrong spot. But case in point what makes us different from any other is the vitalness of the knowledge in being exclusive. There is no other doctrine similiar, the Angel isnt just some conjured energy.
i remember it was soon after my first visit. And the first thing said. Im not sure if it was more understood realized or just autonomely just understood. The impacted me so much i wrote just three words down and taped them to the mirror. Although completely understood both mathematically and scientifically. I spent days meditating on those words mingling them with liberal love and just remembering the warmth and intimacy of how it just made all of me come alive, it was as if i had been infused internally.
But these words were key to all and i assimulated them over and over again.
Cause and effect.
Three simple words but they sent forth a cataclysmic internal combustion change that started to understand every motion, word and thought from henceforth on. Speak on the things i want to bring about always. Never go backwards always forward. Seeing cause and effect from that perception even just as glimpse was equally intimate.Crowley said that we would have an affinity with other groups there wjll be some things that we would have in common with them, i think one example was nature. But tje coraltion of magick in relation to magick and is severly comjoined. It may that be thosr others i see may not adhere to such doctrine are black magicians.
but one may ask doesnt doctrine require dogma? Are we guilty of such a thing as dogma. But it is as if maybe we may see something others may not. In knowing we have a history full of witnesses to the same through out recorded history, testimony of this Angelic being.To understand the Angel is might to try to understand who He was and is to others.
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@gerry456 said
"Surely you need a hellova lot of experience in angelic communication and euphoric invocation of angels and gods before you hope to invoke your ultimate god, your HGA?
I mean I just don't think it's happened to me."
Maybe not so, the HGA has been the only Person that I have relationship with, and have ever had.
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According to Dr Shoemaker it doesn't look likely unless you have extensive pranayama asana experience. Crowley devised the system, well, you've all seen Liber E and Liber O, I presume. You've seen the way the grade exercises work, jugorum, astral rising on the planes, bhakti exercises, mastery of dharana and only then.....HGA.
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@gerry456 said
"According to Dr Shoemaker it doesn't look likely unless you have extensive pranayama asana experience. Crowley devised the system, well, you've all seen Liber E and Liber O, I presume. You've seen the way the grade exercises work, jugorum, astral rising on the planes, bhakti exercises, mastery of dharana and only then.....HGA."
Absolutely correct.....i posted earlier about my difficult marriage....it was during that time one of which i am completely thankful for, the spiritual awakening that occured has been similiar to being "born anew." because of the these described activities all by accident and only because it seemed natural. Having extened periods of alone time is vital to the process but the length of time may be different for all. Months is accurate.
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According to Malcolm Gladwell, it takes the average person 10,000 hours of practice to become world-class in a field. Mozart managed that on piano at 7 years old. A man born without hands might not ever manage it, regardless of his level of determination.
Attempting to fit an individual's achievement of K&C into a temporal box, or trying to define it based on the method two men devised to assist people of a certain temperament to achieve it, might not be the most useful of tactics.
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We can also take comfort, and I say this with love. Slow your mind down. A most excellent prescription for all. Every thing from A to Z. Is found in one sentence in Magick.
Crowley wrote. And I believe in capital letters.
MEDITATION IS THE WAY OF ATTAINMENT.Also equally comforting he told us, that there are no precise where by a man obtain the knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel.
But the one thing every one may seem to do or might be able to do is Meditate.