Cosmology and AA purpose question.

Jim Eshelman

"Do the elementals acquire a HGA...?"

There is always help ;upstream' in the hierarchy. I can't say I can speak exactly of elementals' experience, but I can say with certainty that humans - especially trained humans in the Work - routinely serve in the same relationship to elementals that the HGA serves to us. The potential for this is encoded in primary symbols from the earliest steps of training, though not everyone consciously takes up that responsibility.

"If the HGA is already perfect, why does it need to evolve energies?"

I don't k now what this question means.

"If it is our higher self If it knows the lessons why does the Briatic consciousness need to learn lessons?"

I guess I don't know what this question means either, because I don't know where it's coming from. It looks like you have certain preconceptions that are leading you to certain conclusions which you are then not fully understanding nd are questioning... or something like that?

"In short, what the bugger is going on? Is the universe being raised in consciousness in the four worlds through the influence of Atziloot ? "

The universe isn't going anywere at all. The universe already fully exists in all four worlds.

I wonder if you mean your universe, i.e., your awareness of different aspects???

And finally - by signing the Oath and dedicating your energies to the AA , will the forgone conclusion be that one will have to reincarnate to serve humanity? Or is that choice made MUCH further down the line and it is a choice in actuality?
Thanks for your time.
93/93"

Anchorite

93
Thanks for the reply. Sorry for my confusion.
I wondered, so to speak, what the end game was.

I may indeed get the terms muddled so I'll try without as much as possible. This is my apprehension.
From a personal viewpoint. I'm a guy , this other being , the HGA who is intimately connected with me , who I am unaware of, will eventually , through many incarnations or through magickal work make contact and tell me that he's raising me to the consciousness of God.
A consciousness that I already have but am unaware of the existence of.
So I attain to K&C, then after a while he disappears, I become a babe of the abyss and become aware of the true consciousness of God.
I think The HGA reappears as something 'else'? at that point.
Now at death of the physical body - if the above is taken as has occurred.
My perfected consciousness (Yechida) is free to incarnate as it 's will .
My Ruach disperses if I am not a master , and does not disperse as much if I am . Especially if I take a vow to consistently reincarnate.
My Briatic aspect - I'm drawing a blank as to what happens to at that point of reincarnation.
My personal HGA - I'm not sure either - I may have misread a quote. I think I read that it separates from the Yechida and go back into space/time to train up another part of consciousness? (OrI guess it's all happening /already has happened , from the highest point of view.)

So the question I guess is.,
Is the end game to elevate all elements of the universe so they can see the perfection of themselves as the One or is there an evolutionary goal of the One consciousness beyond this?

I mean, all these HGA"s clearing the veils so we can see what we are.
A silly thought but really I can't grasp the 'why ' of all the learning and forgetting , attainment and falling game that each angel has to go through watching each one of us screw up in different lives (possibly simulatenously) and what we go through, just to forget each incarnation and start over.

It seems ... Baffling for my Ruach since the above is, sadly, the limit of both my knowledge and utter confusion of the purpose of creation in Thelemic thought.
I know. It's woeful.
93/93

Danica

There's a passage in Liber 65, Chapter 2 addressing this question of purpose (to which the mind is naturally drawn to):

"*17. Also the Holy One came upon me, and I beheld a white swan floating in the blue.

Between its wings I sate, and the aeons fled away.
Then the swan flew and dived and soared, yet no whither we went.
A little crazy boy that rode with me spake unto the swan, and said:
Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many aeons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan,and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?
And the swan was ever silent. Ah! but we floated in the infinite Abyss. Joy! Joy! White swan, bear thou ever me up between thy wings!* "

Anchorite

@danica said

"There's a passage in Liber 65, Chapter 2 addressing this question of purpose (to which the mind is naturally drawn to):

"*17. Also the Holy One came upon me, and I beheld a white swan floating in the blue.

Between its wings I sate, and the aeons fled away.
Then the swan flew and dived and soared, yet no whither we went.
A little crazy boy that rode with me spake unto the swan, and said:
Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many aeons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan,and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?
And the swan was ever silent. Ah! but we floated in the infinite Abyss. Joy! Joy! White swan, bear thou ever me up between thy wings!* "
"

93
Thanks for responding.

'No whence, No whither' reminds me of the Zen Koan of 'where did the geese come from?' 'There are no geese,' roll on Zenstick
I know. I know. I'm the crazy rational ruach , to quote the Waterboys 'trying to make sense of something that I just don't see'. It's just , well there seems to be a purpose due to the aeons changing (from our point of view) conciousness evolving ( I guess again from our present POV) and the actual role of beings such as the Angel .
Why beings such as this are used in the evolution of conciousness if from the highest levels there is truly nowhere to go and nothing to do anyway.? It makes my mind stall like a car missing a gear change.

Or I guess I could see it as more of a Brahamanic idea. God is veiling Himself from Himself and the 'joy of dissolution' at finding Him in all levels at all times - and agents such as the Angels are there to make sure you eventually get home .

Avshalom Binyamin

"It makes my mind stall like a car missing a gear change."

Now you're getting somewhere.

Avshalom Binyamin

In all seriousness, we as humans can't help but go around trying to define the meaning of things. We want a neat, tidy rational explanation for a big, irrational universe. And that's not really possible--not for the centuries of philosophers that have tried, and not for us in a little internet forum thread. But it's ok to struggle and reason with it until we go silly in the head.

The question I heard was: Why does the HGA bother trying to "raise our consciousness" if it's already perfect? I don't know. Maybe the HGA can't help themselves. Maybe the underlying question is: How can an ever-changing universe be perfect?

Or maybe the question is: what does it meant to be perfect? If it means to have all the required elements, well we have all the raw ingredients here now. If it means to be as good as it can possibly be, well that's true of every moment (Yes, it can always be better--in the future). If it means to be done and over, well then that's something no subject gets to witness.

Anchorite

93

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"
"It makes my mind stall like a car missing a gear change."

Now you're getting somewhere."

The breaks. The breaks.

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"

Or maybe the question is: what does it meant to be perfect? If it means to have all the required elements, well we have all the raw ingredients here now. If it means to be as good as it can possibly be, well that's true of every moment (Yes, it can always be better--in the future). If it means to be done and over, well then that's something no subject gets to witness."

Yes I think that was exactly the question when everything else was cut away. Cheers.

I had this , experience meditating on some high high grade LSD over , oh god, 25 years ago now, and there was an experience where everything was utterly utterly perfect.
Then it got better. Accelerating into more ever evolving perfects. Each moment twice as joyous a hallelujah as the moment before.
If that's what it all is after all, I'm signed up.
Thanks for the reply.
93/93

Gnosomai Emauton

@Anchorite said

"I had this , experience meditating on some high high grade LSD over , oh god, 25 years ago now, and there was an experience where everything was utterly utterly perfect.
Then it got better. Accelerating into more ever evolving perfects. Each moment twice as joyous a hallelujah as the moment before.
If that's what it all is after all, I'm signed up. "

For me it was LSD meditation and Beethoven's Ninth. Sign me up, indeed!

Anchorite

@Gnosomai Emauton said

"
@Anchorite said
"I had this , experience meditating on some high high grade LSD over , oh god, 25 years ago now, and there was an experience where everything was utterly utterly perfect.
Then it got better. Accelerating into more ever evolving perfects. Each moment twice as joyous a hallelujah as the moment before.
If that's what it all is after all, I'm signed up. "

For me it was LSD meditation and Beethoven's Ninth. Sign me up, indeed! "

You know when I heard, or actively listented to the Ninth for the first time it was after my experience. It was the wonderful Scene from Immortal Beloved with Oldman and he's floating in the pool of stars - and my response was a heavily emotional 'That's it, that was it!'
Both at once? You git

Takamba

By Jove, I think you've got it.
HALLELUJAH