93
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I always thought of the "Thou" referring to the person you are speaking too. As I see it (personally) as it being my Will that others do their Will. Which would tie in with the intimate awareness.
"Love under Will" is alway something I have taken in a literal context. as Will divided by Love is one (Will/Love). Doing Will is Doing Love and vice verse.
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An odd thing about "thou" here is that virtually everywhere else in the book, "thou" and "thee" are used to address the scribe and prophet. Usually, the rest of us are lumped together with the plural "ye" and "you". (I'm not sure what this is significant of, but this looked like the place to mention it.)
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@Uni_Verse said
"I always thought of the "Thou" referring to the person you are speaking too. As I see it (personally) as it being my Will that others do their Will. Which would tie in with the intimate awareness.
"Love under Will" is alway something I have taken in a literal context. as Will divided by Love is one (Will/Love). Doing Will is Doing Love and vice verse."
Thou is a formal 2nd-person pronoun used in the nominative case (as the subject, not the object which is usually 'thee')
Under does not equal division by ANY means. The part of the pyramid under the capstone is not its division, it is - if anything - its support and foundation.
My interpretation? Since Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law and Love is the law... they can't both be the law unless they are coterminous, and they are. Love is simply a name for the Will, its mode of action (uniting one thing to another, i.e. each experience). "Love under will" is one concept like the Will-to-Love (adapted from Nietzsche's Will-to-Power which doesnt treat power and will as separate but two sides of the same coin). "Will" is one's true and pure Motion which can only be fully realized when one's restrictions are destroyed, the most nefarious of which is our dualism. Once we break the self/not-self barrier, understanding our true Self/Angel to beyond these opposites, the Will may flow even more freely and truly. Then the 'thou' becomes the 'Thou' ('Ateh' in the Qabalistic Cross, and 'Thou-Child' in Book of Lies). Also, Do what thou wilt being the whole of the Law is a clean sweep across all morality - there is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
@gmugmble said
"An odd thing about "thou" here is that virtually everywhere else in the book, "thou" and "thee" are used to address the scribe and prophet. Usually, the rest of us are lumped together with the plural "ye" and "you". (I'm not sure what this is significant of, but this looked like the place to mention it.)"
Really? All 67 times the word 'thou' is used? the 25 times 'thee' is used (sometimes even referring to Nuit)?
Your statement is not even remotely based in fact - why assert it?
IAO131
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@Aum418 said
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@gmugmble said
"An odd thing about "thou" here is that virtually everywhere else in the book, "thou" and "thee" are used to address the scribe and prophet. Usually, the rest of us are lumped together with the plural "ye" and "you". (I'm not sure what this is significant of, but this looked like the place to mention it.)"Really? All 67 times the word 'thou' is used? the 25 times 'thee' is used (sometimes even referring to Nuit)?
Your statement is not even remotely based in fact - why assert it?"
Well, I confess I hadn't actually counted and made a rigorous study; it was subjective judgement from having read the book countless times. Still, I don't think I'm that remote from the truth. (But I don't think it's worth fighting over.)
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Sure been a lot of grumpy people around, lately.
chrys333 -
93 Parzival,
"Quote Parzival:
Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law Love is the Law, Love under Will"
What is your interpretation of these words?"I have always interpreted: Love is the Law love under will, as protection, from our lower animal nature, the Yesodic levels of our being.
Love is the law love under will. I have said this statement many times to cleanse myself from selfishness, resentment, critical emotions toward other and of course, to clean up my own automatic responses to life. I personally believe that *Love is the Law *is a very high level statement.
A statement that could be related to Chesed on the Tree of life
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This is my take on things:
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the lawThis of course is liberating, it seems like a law that truly secures freedom (not chaos). It appears to me like a cure for the hysterical dogmas that have plagued mankind. It also compells us to do what makes us useful in the greater sense.
Love is the Law, Love under Will
"There is no bond that can unite the divided but love." - Liber AL vel Legis I. 41.
If love is an act of unity, can we say that unity is then the Law? Unity under will? But who's will does that refer to? Mine or "god"? Or are they the same thing?
To me this deals with the inevitable return of all things from whence they came, and the guidance of this process by the will.But these are just my thoughts
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@Ankh said
"93 Parzival,
"Quote Parzival:
Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law Love is the Law, Love under Will"
What is your interpretation of these words?"I have always interpreted: Love is the Law love under will, as protection, from our lower animal nature, the Yesodic levels of our being.
Love is the law love under will. I have said this statement many times to cleanse myself from selfishness, resentment, critical emotions toward other and of course, to clean up my own automatic responses to life. I personally believe that *Love is the Law *is a very high level statement.
A statement that could be related to Chesed on the Tree of life"Why would we need to be protected from our 'lower' nature?
"32. For Perfection abideth not in the Pinnacles, or in the Foundations, but in the ordered Harmony of one with all." - Liber Causae
"40. My adepts stand upright; their head above the heavens, their feet below the hells." (and the whole talk of 'Companions' before this line) - Liber Tzaddi
etc. etc.
@Parzival said
"
This of course is liberating, it seems like a law that truly secures freedom (not chaos)."Chaos is not the opposite of freedom. If you aren't free to be chaotic, are you free?
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If love is an act of unity, can we say that unity is then the Law? Unity under will?"No because multiplicity and division is for love's sake as well. If you refer to that Unity which contains both unity (None) & multiplicity (Two) I might start to agree...
IAO131
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To revive this thread briefly and become a centre of pestillence:
Why the "SHALL" be the whole of the Law? Why not "IS" the whole of the Law? I think I read that this is to stress the attainment of the K&C of the HGA first, then the above holds true.
Interesting then that Love IS the Law, not Love SHALL be the Law.
I would take that to imply that DWTW is the enlightened stage, and, until then, you can at least state categorically that Love under Will is the Law.
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@Escarabaj said
"Why the "SHALL" be the whole of the Law? Why not "IS" the whole of the Law?"
"Shall" in English is not principally a future tense (though a lot of grammar texts say so). It derives from the Old English verb "sceolen" which means "to be bound or obligated". Throughout the history of English, and in the Book of the Law, it has the force of a command, an assurance, a prophecy, a promise, etc. "Thou shalt" and "thou shalt not" in the biblical 10 commandments are, well, commandments. "We shall overcome" expresses commitment or determination. "Shall" in "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" gives the statement a tone of ineluctable authority.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
The true interpretation to me, it seems, is deeply personal. To truly understand this, each aspirant needs to come to terms with what each word means, and why that word and no other. Of course, I suspect that this is the functional purpose of this particular topic, so I'll offer my spin on things, and see what I stir up.
I'll agree with other posts in saying that "Do" refers to positive action.
"What" expresses this action, much as the passive egg manifests the active force of the seed which fertilizes it. Transliterated into Hebrew, Vav He Aleph Teth, it equals 21, the number of the final Tarot Trump.
"Thou", as a formal pronoun, suggests a higher aspect of self. It is not an injunction to indulge the mindless desires of the Nephesch, but rather to first discover the higher nature of one's own consciousness, and thereby learn the Will thereof, and then act thereupon. (This, I admit, abstracts in the meaning of "Wilt" as well.)
"Shall", I will disagree with a prior post and assume that it uses the more modern, future tense sense of the word. It follows then, by my interpretation, that this means that "Do What Thou Wilt" becomes the "whole of the Law" by a process, by changes in consciousness. In theory, we could be born in a state of such awareness, but by the time that most of us become truly aware and interactive with the world, numerous psychological imprints from peers, family, TV, and miscellaneous advertizing that we barely resemble our true selves.
I'll, for the moment, be lazy, and take on "the whole of the law" as a group phrase. To be brief, it suggests that, after completing the transformative process (i.e. initiation), this Will becomes the whole means by which to guide and regulate life.
And, for those who want to be anal about this, which is totally valid in reference to a Qabalistic text, for the moment I'll count "be" as the link necessary in grammar to join "shall" and the final portion of the statement.
I'll call that enough for now, and maybe address "Love is the law, love under will." some other time.
As I said, I take this to be entirely personal, and I'll defer to A.C. on the idea that all issues of the Law are to be decided by each for themselves, so I'll be damned if anybody takes my statements as being meant with even the slightest pretense of authority. I have authority in this regarding only myself and no other, and I'm not so delusional as to think otherwise. I only post this in hopes that somebody may find inspiration even in disagreeing with me.
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Hmm, hadn't seen this thread before - but what is all this monism here? Uniting by love does not create one, it creates none, that is a fundamental change in understanding that is central to Liber Al Chapter One. Crowley struggled with this and eventually came up with a mathematical "solution" (-1 plus +1 = 0) but I think there is more to it.
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@sethur said
"Hmm, hadn't seen this thread before - but what is all this monism here? Uniting by love does not create one, it creates none, that is a fundamental change in understanding that is central to Liber Al Chapter One. Crowley struggled with this and eventually came up with a mathematical "solution" (-1 plus +1 = 0) but I think there is more to it."
"None" is a more accurate name for "One."
"By Light shall ye look upon yourselves, and behold All Things that are in Truth One Thing only, whose name hath been called No Thing for a cause which later shall be declared unto you... And this Love is the force that uniteth things diverse, for the contemplation in Light of their Oneness... This Light or Nothing is then the Resultant or Totality thereof in pure Perfection; and all other states, positive or negative, are imperfect, since they omit their opposites... Now Love is the enkindling in ecstacy of Two that will to become One. It is thus an Universal formula of High Magick. (etc)" - De Lege Libellum
"Love breedeth All and None in One." - Book of Lies
"But do thou meditate strictly upon these Things, distinguishing the right Property, Order, and Use of the Other and the other in the Relative, even as thou makest them All-One, that is None, in the Absolute." - Liber Aleph
"by Initiation I was made All-One." - Liber Aleph
etc...
IAO131
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Well, Crowley never rid himself of monism so I will take Liber Aleph as his personal view.
And as for "shall" rather than "is", ever considered that this is not a command but a prophecy?