Ch. 2 "The Execution" (9/8 – 9/14)
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The primitive idea that somebody who commits a murder or an outstanding crime is really not himself but performs something which only a god could do expresses the situation very well.
Does it, though? Humanity stands astride the animal kingdom and the spiritual kingdom. Gods can murder, but not only gods: there's no animal like a chimpanzee when it comes to cold blooded killing.
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Von Franz writes of the archetypal tree as the life and development of a person, something which grows regardless of the ego’s machinations. “The Self is the tree—that which is greater than the ego in man.” I dig it, but she also says that “it is the urge toward individuation which unfolds and continues, independent of our consciousness.” Perhaps this is just sloppy writing: she must mean ego-consciousness or self-awareness which is a component part of the entirety of our consciousness, which itself is a component part of the universal consciousness?
Aside from that, I think this is a really important point for magicians to get their head around: that the Self develops independent of the ego. It is vastly more powerful than the ego, and so is the actual agency in causing change to occur in conformity with Will. We are not seeking to impose the desires of the ego on the universe; we are seeking to awaken the channel between Self and ego so that ego can be in on the adventure.
the conscious man constantly pulls away, trying to free himself and to act freely and consciously, and he is then painfully pulled back to the inner process.
Painfully pulled back every single time. The conscious man in question is not terribly conscious. He wants to do his own thing, regardless of the deeper impulses of his being that characterize his True Will. He can only try to free himself and act freely; Yoda’s lessons are put to the test when somebody sets out to achieve the actually impossible. Lifting an X-Wing out of a swamp is child’s play in comparison.
If the Self is the tree, perhaps the ego is the fruit. [^1] The seed it bears is a symbol of Light in Extension, as shown for example in BOTA’s Death card. It is the ego’s role – the short-lived aspect of us that we call “myself” – to extend Light. It is a tool of the Self for purposes of creation in one of the more dense regions of spirit. Super special, but not in the way most people think.
Freedom comes when we let go and receive guidance from the depths. The conscious man has trouble letting go; he wants to control everything. If we are to act freely, the ego has to get out of the way. It has to become transparent like the Magus. The Hanged Man which Von Franz discusses in this chapter is the most watery of atus. It is a picture of the ego after it has surrendered to “that which is greater” than itself, placing itself in a position where it may receive, through the agency of Life, the pure white rays of the One.
[^1]: We may have here a model of reincarnation.
@zeph I absolutely love that image! The tree makes me think of A'ayin, like in Liber 370:
- Fear not when I fall in the fury of the storm; for mine acorns are blown afar by the wind; and verily I shall rise again, and my children about me, so that we shall uplift our forest in Eternity.
The tree itself is universal, and each personality is a fruit wherein contains seeds, each containing the whole of the tree itself. So in the hanged man's case, it is the personality which is executed on the tree? I agree, this analogy could perhaps use some updating, I appreciate Crowley/Harris' depiction of a man within the waters with a serpent ready to spring.
Though in Von Franz's case, the execution is a particular shadow-motif that perhaps occurs in fairy-tales, dreams, and so on... I know Crowley had issue with this card, likening it to Osirian resurrection? The sense that we must die to be reborn being misaligned in the New Aeon, yet death is a part of the natural development of the ego in relation to the Self. So, within the system of initiation based on the Tree, the process of death and rebirth is still applicable.
Which I believe could perhaps be applied here, an execution is a powerful emotional event usually at the hands of justice, which is fitting given the path leading between Geburah and Hod. Yet, we know justice to be simply the natural unfolding of will, which is oftentimes vast and mysterious. One last quote, this makes me think of Liber 90:
- With courage conquering fear shall ye approach me: ye shall lay down your heads upon mine altar, expecting the sweep of the sword.
- But the first kiss of love shall be radiant on your lips; and all my darkness and terror shall turn to light and joy."
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The primitive idea that somebody who commits a murder or an outstanding crime is really not himself but performs something which only a god could do expresses the situation very well.
Does it, though? Humanity stands astride the animal kingdom and the spiritual kingdom. Gods can murder, but not only gods: there's no animal like a chimpanzee when it comes to cold blooded killing.
@zeph for real!!
This part of the book rubbed me the wrong way too. There is a certain god-like element to choosing to end a life, and humans are unique in that they are able to kill consciously... but, killing is definitely more akin to apes.
Personally, I think a mother's love for all creation is more god-like.
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The primitive idea that somebody who commits a murder or an outstanding crime is really not himself but performs something which only a god could do expresses the situation very well.
Does it, though? Humanity stands astride the animal kingdom and the spiritual kingdom. Gods can murder, but not only gods: there's no animal like a chimpanzee when it comes to cold blooded killing.
@zeph I'm with you all. I read this section and was like, "What?"
Like von Franz stated in the first chapter, it is all too easy to hypothesize and force a text to fit the hypothesis. I felt like she probably read the "The Golden Bough" and decided to run with it haha
I think the biggest weakness of that section is simply a lack of anthropological evidence for her argument to hold any weight. -
How does Von Franz's history of hanging by tree and the execution of gods relate to the tarot trump "The Hanged Man"? (pgs. 40-46)
In the text, von Franz asserts that we hang criminals to reenact the myth of Wotan hanging from the Tree. I disagree with this assertion, and I feel as if she’s forcing meaning onto history that may not actually be there. I will have to do my own research to discover if there is any truth to her assertions in this regard. Since the chapter hinged on this hypothesis (ironically, doing exactly what she decried in the first chapter), it was a little difficult to engage with this chapter.
It is interesting to note that most criminals are hanged by the neck, whereas the Hanged Man tarot Trump is hanging by the ankle. The Hanged Man illustrates that everyone is dependent on the life force, whereas the execution of the criminal is to take away the life force.
However, as I’ve been thinking about this over the past week, I am still struggling to come up with a response. Perhaps this also shows my own lack of knowledge in this area.
What are some potential shadows for Thelemic values? (pg. 47)
Some potential shadows are narcissism, being overly assertive, and solipsism. Narcissism is a pretty common thing amongst the masses and perhaps less specific to Thelema. However, one may be so emboldened by the Book of the Law that they are overly assertive, and thereby missing the point that the True Will brings Light into the Universe.
There is also the possibility that an individual might become so relativistic that they fall into solipsism. This is perhaps more pronounced in the New Aeon since now we are actively trying to discover our own unique path as a star.
Also, I thought I'd add a more personal one, how does the symbol of the execution (as described in this chapter) show up in your life?**
I think I often experience this symbol when I am aware that a change is occurring in my life but I have not become aware of the outcome. Knowing that a change is happening can sometimes come with stagnation as I wait for the moment when the outcome manifests. This is an execution of sorts, since I am waiting for the current expression of ego to die and make room for the one that comes with the change.
I’m sorry if my responses lack the depth of previous responses. I found it difficult to engage this chapter and at a certain point felt I needed to just get over it and write a response haha
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System unpinned this topic
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How does Von Franz's history of hanging by tree and the execution of gods relate to the tarot trump "The Hanged Man"? (pgs. 40-46)
In the text, von Franz asserts that we hang criminals to reenact the myth of Wotan hanging from the Tree. I disagree with this assertion, and I feel as if she’s forcing meaning onto history that may not actually be there. I will have to do my own research to discover if there is any truth to her assertions in this regard. Since the chapter hinged on this hypothesis (ironically, doing exactly what she decried in the first chapter), it was a little difficult to engage with this chapter.
It is interesting to note that most criminals are hanged by the neck, whereas the Hanged Man tarot Trump is hanging by the ankle. The Hanged Man illustrates that everyone is dependent on the life force, whereas the execution of the criminal is to take away the life force.
However, as I’ve been thinking about this over the past week, I am still struggling to come up with a response. Perhaps this also shows my own lack of knowledge in this area.
What are some potential shadows for Thelemic values? (pg. 47)
Some potential shadows are narcissism, being overly assertive, and solipsism. Narcissism is a pretty common thing amongst the masses and perhaps less specific to Thelema. However, one may be so emboldened by the Book of the Law that they are overly assertive, and thereby missing the point that the True Will brings Light into the Universe.
There is also the possibility that an individual might become so relativistic that they fall into solipsism. This is perhaps more pronounced in the New Aeon since now we are actively trying to discover our own unique path as a star.
Also, I thought I'd add a more personal one, how does the symbol of the execution (as described in this chapter) show up in your life?**
I think I often experience this symbol when I am aware that a change is occurring in my life but I have not become aware of the outcome. Knowing that a change is happening can sometimes come with stagnation as I wait for the moment when the outcome manifests. This is an execution of sorts, since I am waiting for the current expression of ego to die and make room for the one that comes with the change.
I’m sorry if my responses lack the depth of previous responses. I found it difficult to engage this chapter and at a certain point felt I needed to just get over it and write a response haha
@jjones I was unsure about shadows for Thelema being qualities Thelema represses (conformity, for example) or might increase in an unbalanced personality (like narcissism, self-centeredness). I totally agree that Thelema has a tendency to stoke self-centeredness in those who do not understand what "Do what thou wilt" means. Your reference to solipsism is incredibly fascinating, I didn't know about that term.
Perhaps one could find shadows for each chapter of Liber L? I feel like people's favorite chapter says a lot about their disposition.
I feel like her argument would be more convincing if she provided some example of the execution motif in fairy tales. It did seem like she went off on a tangent... I wonder how one might interpret execution in their dream?
For example, I unfortunately have violent dreams often, which I blame on watching too many horror films very young. I was trying to remember if I had a dream of an execution, plenty of murders, but executions feel different. There is a sense of judicial punishment that is different from revenge killing or murder in cold-blood. Executions seem to imply some institutional structure... perhaps, drawing from the I-Ching, one could equate the psyche to an institution and an execution of some aberrant thought-form as a kind of execution. In that sense, I believe it relates to what you mention above, that execution shows up when there is stagnation and some part of you needs to die to move forward and create something new?
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@jjones I was unsure about shadows for Thelema being qualities Thelema represses (conformity, for example) or might increase in an unbalanced personality (like narcissism, self-centeredness). I totally agree that Thelema has a tendency to stoke self-centeredness in those who do not understand what "Do what thou wilt" means. Your reference to solipsism is incredibly fascinating, I didn't know about that term.
Perhaps one could find shadows for each chapter of Liber L? I feel like people's favorite chapter says a lot about their disposition.
I feel like her argument would be more convincing if she provided some example of the execution motif in fairy tales. It did seem like she went off on a tangent... I wonder how one might interpret execution in their dream?
For example, I unfortunately have violent dreams often, which I blame on watching too many horror films very young. I was trying to remember if I had a dream of an execution, plenty of murders, but executions feel different. There is a sense of judicial punishment that is different from revenge killing or murder in cold-blood. Executions seem to imply some institutional structure... perhaps, drawing from the I-Ching, one could equate the psyche to an institution and an execution of some aberrant thought-form as a kind of execution. In that sense, I believe it relates to what you mention above, that execution shows up when there is stagnation and some part of you needs to die to move forward and create something new?
@Hannah conformity is a good one! I hadn’t considered that.
I like that you specifically addressed the question as “What is Thelema repressing?” It draws attention to the fact that no religious and/or philosophical system is perfect. It also reminded me that it’s all too easy to put Thelema on a pedestal simply because we choose it over other systems.
Interestingly, I also had very violent dreams when I was a child too, specifically that I was either getting killed by some kind of “Other” (usually an Alien from the movie Alien) or that a particular family member of mine was going to kill me. Whether it was the Other or it was a family member, both dreams culminated in my violent and gruesome death, and both would’ve given a Jungian a field day if they interpreted them. I had not watched a lot of horror movies when I was a child, but the ones I did see at that age left a huge impact on me.
The dreams I had about this particular family member were much more in the style of an execution than the dreams about the Other. I would often experience the dream as if I had done something just inherently wrong that made this family member snap. Without divulging too much personal information, this dream with the family member felt like an execution not because I had done anything wrong, but rather that my existence in the world felt inherently wrong.
In many ways, this related to the Shadow side of the Hanged Man card. I felt stagnant and incapable of growing (which had biological manifestations as a result of these feelings). Rather than stagnating to collect knowledge (as the conscious side of the Hanged Man archetype points to), it was an execution to put things back in their right order.
In that regard, the only aspect of those dreams that related to the Hanged Man was simply the idea that I was not progressing and that my subconscious told me by not progressing, I am dying. The resolution of the dream seemed more tied to Libra and the Adjustment card. Perhaps that’s why I felt so strongly against von Franz’s interpretation. Her argument would’ve been in better service of the Adjustment card, since her reading of the Execution motif is that of putting things in their right place (as evidenced by her argument that a criminal must be returned to the realm of the gods). I think I also got upset at her interpretation because I do not like the idea of criminals being related to gods
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@Hannah conformity is a good one! I hadn’t considered that.
I like that you specifically addressed the question as “What is Thelema repressing?” It draws attention to the fact that no religious and/or philosophical system is perfect. It also reminded me that it’s all too easy to put Thelema on a pedestal simply because we choose it over other systems.
Interestingly, I also had very violent dreams when I was a child too, specifically that I was either getting killed by some kind of “Other” (usually an Alien from the movie Alien) or that a particular family member of mine was going to kill me. Whether it was the Other or it was a family member, both dreams culminated in my violent and gruesome death, and both would’ve given a Jungian a field day if they interpreted them. I had not watched a lot of horror movies when I was a child, but the ones I did see at that age left a huge impact on me.
The dreams I had about this particular family member were much more in the style of an execution than the dreams about the Other. I would often experience the dream as if I had done something just inherently wrong that made this family member snap. Without divulging too much personal information, this dream with the family member felt like an execution not because I had done anything wrong, but rather that my existence in the world felt inherently wrong.
In many ways, this related to the Shadow side of the Hanged Man card. I felt stagnant and incapable of growing (which had biological manifestations as a result of these feelings). Rather than stagnating to collect knowledge (as the conscious side of the Hanged Man archetype points to), it was an execution to put things back in their right order.
In that regard, the only aspect of those dreams that related to the Hanged Man was simply the idea that I was not progressing and that my subconscious told me by not progressing, I am dying. The resolution of the dream seemed more tied to Libra and the Adjustment card. Perhaps that’s why I felt so strongly against von Franz’s interpretation. Her argument would’ve been in better service of the Adjustment card, since her reading of the Execution motif is that of putting things in their right place (as evidenced by her argument that a criminal must be returned to the realm of the gods). I think I also got upset at her interpretation because I do not like the idea of criminals being related to gods
I totally agree that each individual’s favorite chapter reveals something about the person. It would definitely make a fantastic essay to analyze the Shadow for each chapter. It may even help people to become aware of how they might misuse verses by showing how certain verses can act in service to the Shadow.
(Tried to add this to my previous response but it only lets me edit within the first 60 seconds of posting 🥲)
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@Hannah conformity is a good one! I hadn’t considered that.
I like that you specifically addressed the question as “What is Thelema repressing?” It draws attention to the fact that no religious and/or philosophical system is perfect. It also reminded me that it’s all too easy to put Thelema on a pedestal simply because we choose it over other systems.
Interestingly, I also had very violent dreams when I was a child too, specifically that I was either getting killed by some kind of “Other” (usually an Alien from the movie Alien) or that a particular family member of mine was going to kill me. Whether it was the Other or it was a family member, both dreams culminated in my violent and gruesome death, and both would’ve given a Jungian a field day if they interpreted them. I had not watched a lot of horror movies when I was a child, but the ones I did see at that age left a huge impact on me.
The dreams I had about this particular family member were much more in the style of an execution than the dreams about the Other. I would often experience the dream as if I had done something just inherently wrong that made this family member snap. Without divulging too much personal information, this dream with the family member felt like an execution not because I had done anything wrong, but rather that my existence in the world felt inherently wrong.
In many ways, this related to the Shadow side of the Hanged Man card. I felt stagnant and incapable of growing (which had biological manifestations as a result of these feelings). Rather than stagnating to collect knowledge (as the conscious side of the Hanged Man archetype points to), it was an execution to put things back in their right order.
In that regard, the only aspect of those dreams that related to the Hanged Man was simply the idea that I was not progressing and that my subconscious told me by not progressing, I am dying. The resolution of the dream seemed more tied to Libra and the Adjustment card. Perhaps that’s why I felt so strongly against von Franz’s interpretation. Her argument would’ve been in better service of the Adjustment card, since her reading of the Execution motif is that of putting things in their right place (as evidenced by her argument that a criminal must be returned to the realm of the gods). I think I also got upset at her interpretation because I do not like the idea of criminals being related to gods
@jjones In Jungian system dreams about any individuals is seen as aspect of self represented by that individual. Parents in particular would represent animus and anima - one way to see it would be anima (light aspect: feminine, intuitive, compassionate; dark aspect: cruel, smothering, controlling, delusional) and animus (light aspect: rational, intellelctual, logical; dark aspect: cold, reductionistic, disconnected, domineering, opinionated). So whichever parent is killing you can be seen as its representative animus/a quality of onseself - and depending on the dream, killing might be necessary and justified (done in service to the Self) or it could be one polarity of self undermining the other, thus jeopardizing one's balance.
According to Jungian dream interpretation - dreams are always forward looking, meaning they are announcing what's coming up - and usually are seen as attempting to give one a message, to remedy or prevent issue within a psyche. So that's one way to interpret those kinds of dreams. -
Potential Shadows of Thelemic values:
As von Franz describes, in Christian circles being sweet, kind and polite are top priority values, and those qualities are assumed to conceal one's hidden feelings, which are their direct opposite—like jealousy, frustration, and so on. In Thelemic circles it's about being "free, loud and adulterous" or very intellectually sophisticated - and those things are used to cover up one's feelings of inadequacy and lack of freedom (freedom from compulsions and various types of mental anguish—insecurities, and so on).
One way to extract Shadow material is by understanding the hidden aspect of ourselves that is attracted to some of the Thelemic principles.
For instance, sexual liberation aspect which seems to be the initial and fundamental attraction element for so many people, esp. those looking to rid themselves from controlling and conservative upbringing. It is good to remember that external things we are running away from are often embedded in our unconscious, so they go wherever we go, and they will haunt us until we root them out ourselves; once truly integrated we no longer need to seek remedy outside of ourselves.
So relative to this aspect, typically women overidentify with Babalon who is wild and sexual, and men see themselves as the Beast. Jim said it well when he emphasized these are offices we can temporarily assume, rather than something we overidentify with full time. So the Shadow aspect in people who want to be seen as the "Beast" would be addiction to sex and sense pleasures, promiscuity and validation that can arise from promiscuity - feeling oneself to be alpha ("wining" biologically in the animal kingdom is related to having many female partners); so here it's not about liberation but about indulging one's addictive tendencies and gaining validation while being free from (at least conscious) guilt and shame, which normally accompany such behavior in mainstream society.
For women who want to be perceived as "Babalon", it's a quick way to get attention in the easiest way possible (flashing our goods) and the audience of hungry "beasts" is there to elevate it to the spotlight and assign the label "Goddess" to what is otherwise, more often than not, a person acting out from the place of need or hunger, rather than realization. So here, wish for sexual liberation is hijacked by neurosis of low self-esteem, sense of inadequacy, fear of abandonment, cry for attention, loneliness, feeling that “I am not good enough”, or “I am not enough”, :I am not valuable”; also feeling of inner void/hunger that seeks fulfillment from without—rather than finding that well within (which actually automatically happens if we truly embody Babalon/Beast which can only happen when we put ego/personality’s fixations aside).
As Jung pointed out—psyche has compensatory nature - whatever we try to impress upon others - such as "I am confident", "I am beautiful", etc. indicates that deep inside, or in our unconscious, we feel we lack those things. Attempts to behave a certain way to control how others see us - to inspire them to see what we wish to embody (as opposed to just being/acting naturally without agendas) is an example of a contrived, compensatory behavior. Hence, ego is always looking for an audience - someone else to reflect for me what I wish to be or believe about myself. Yet no amount of praise helps us arrive at that fulfillment. We can get 100 praises and 1 piece of bad feedback or criticism and if we are not integrated, we are fixated on that one negative voice and it ruins our whole day.
However, we have to start somewhere - we act out for a while and then as we do the work, eventually and hopefully, we start to see these impulses for what they are—and then we can begin to transform them.
Of course, we are not solely responding to things from the Shadow side; there is always the higher Self that plays a major role in what we are drawn to. In fact, the Self will put us in situations where our Shadow gets exposed so that we can have an opportunity to integrate it.
