College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

Ah, that's more like what I was looking for. Thanks.

I appreciated:

"The reason for New and Full Moon versions is to acknowledge its cycle of change, just as the Dawn, Noon, Sunset, and Midnight Resh adorations follow the cycle of relational change with the sun."

I don't mean to over-intellectualize, but I myself find that if I don't structure my Magickal theory I'm apt to get silly ideas or go off on a useless tangent.

I accept your theory. I wonder if a more Dionysian/'Artemisian' bent to lunar work might also be appropriate however.

Ugh, I'm not dissing the moon, and I never even mentioned the earth. I could write an essay on the linkages between sun/earth if you'd like but it's irrelevant.

Sorry for trying to bring up points of theory. I see that this group is more concerned with "I feel" than "I think" in any case.

Nevermind.

I never said i didn't like lunar work. I do, I do it plenty. I think that one of the goals of Magick is to attempt to experience all aspects.

I just wonder if making a Resh-like ritual is really good lunar work. I guess my questions weren't clear in my last post:

Why do a Resh-like invocation for the moon?

Do you think the structure here would really help you understand/experience lunar energies?

Under what theory?

What i have qualms about is taking rituals which are formulated and structured for a specific purpose and changing them around to fit something you "like" or to make them more personally interesting without any reason why that would be appropriate.

Do lunar rituals all you like--but why base them on a solar ritual when that is not what they are? I think lunar work is different enough to iply an entirely different ritual style.

Back to the subject of the moon...

"i feel that the moon should be according just as much respect and can do just as much good or progress as the sun in personal work"

It strikes me as interesting that the first two words of this statement are "I feel" and not "I think" or "I believe".

The moon does have this watery nad potentially stagnating aspect which seems to be more associated with Witchcraft than High Magick. There is no reason to privilege the moon over the Sun. Or to even see it as equal. The sun is our lord the giver of light and life. The moon may be an aide to our limited understanding of such a concept. Liber Resh fortifies one with solar energy, enhancing and balancing, along with other solar work, so that one can use this (along with energies cultivated through yoga)--especially while attempting more Lunar, Infernal, or Saturnian Magick.

At best Lunar Magick can be an exploration of aspiration, an opening of the senses, the mind, a freeing of the spirit. At worst it is enervating, misleading, and unstable.

I do Solar rituals in preparation for lunar etc. "I feel" that if I started doing Resh-like rituals for the Moon, Saturn, Mars, Venus, it might be an interesting experiement--but what would the timing really be like? Would I do a "Saturnian Resh" every four months? Once a week? This concept seems somehow confused.

As a path through which to begin to explore various potentials, and through which to begin to see the possibilities of Magick I can very much endorse "lunar" rites. I don't necessarily see the point of doing a Lunar Ritual modeled after Liber Resh. I am not even theorietcially certain that this would help align one with Lunar energies (or I can at least think of more theoretically and well-tested ways of doing this).

I'm also a bit confused by the tendency to want to Wiccanize Thelema. As a Magician you are certainly capable of engaging in any type or tradition of Magcik you like--but this seems like a confusion of formulae to me. Maybe I'm confused or too rigid, but I'm not sure I get the point.

p.s.

call me a stick in the mud but Kenneth Grant makes me nauseous.

I think Magicians can be naturally testy and strong-minded and sometimes get in each other's way. That said, rather than "wishing for unity" I wish people would stop being so petty about personal or pseud-political disputes that they cannot put larger goals before their own egos. I think much division comes from much insecurity along the lines of "i didn't get picked for your team first so I'm leaving". Maybe just my perception. But shouldn't strong-willed individuals be able to put aside (even rather large) differences if the success or failure of Thelema as a movement is at stake? I certainly hope so--and I'm a bitch.

I'm still considering your reply--I don't like to make mine too quick, and I appreciated your sincerity in answering my points. (Still mulling over Baphomet/Abraxas...)

"Gosh, maybe because it's self-evident through the whole body of his work (including parts of this particular ritual) that Crowley, though progressive on sexual equality for his day, was vastly behind where our understanding has moved a mere hundred years later. "

I pretty much agree with this. But I'd also like to argue that Crowley's rituals have particular value in part because of his own Magickal perspective (which happened to be a male-centric one). I think we could do a lot with more female-based rituals/mysticism/philosophy. I have no problems with current Magicians of both genders taking on this task, and I think it is especially necessarry for female Magicians to explore previously overlooked or un-questioned roles they may play especially in sex Magick. There are new formulae to be revealed and tested.

I'm not convinced that doing away with elements of a well-constructed ritual which seems to have a specific (or several specific) purposes in mind is the way to do that. (I could be convinced otherwise, but first things first).

So here's another question: would you argue that this revised mass achieves the same Maickal end(s) as Crowley's Mass as written? If so or if not, should it?

Finally, I'd like to hear a little more about why the "OTO" clap-trap stuff that's in the GM is or isn't irrelevant to the function of the Mass (if that's not too big of a question)?

93

I find myself a little disturbed by some of these substitutions actually. I haven't posted much on this forum because I haven't felt the need to speak up on much but I read this thread last night and it's still bugging me so maybe I should say something.

I'll start with the "worst" one in my opinion: "Baphomet for Abraxas". While it is obvious thatv "the serpent and the lion" is an allusion to ABRAXAS, I think that the allusion was the important thing. Just coming out and saying ABRAXAS destroys the connection Crowley may have been trying to make.

1. This is an old-aeonic symbol for an important alchemical process.

2. Perhaps Crowley was attempting to show the link between this symbol and the gynander as the the Beast oft he New AEon. I think there is an important link here witht he "mystery of the mass" (which I think is also being somewhat confused by this so called "balancing" of the genders).

(This is only one of the examples I'm seeing but it seemed like a blatant one--brushing aside potentially important allusions for the sake of superficial structure. e.g. I don't know the significance your tradition places on AOM, but the differential use of AUMN and AUMGN in this and other of Crowley's writings is very significant and imho should not be done away with as it is an important point of instruction. The loss of such points to time and whim would be a loss indeed).

Why assume that Crowley was just being backward about the place of women instead of revealing important formulae within the Mass which require the specific roles to which the Priest and Priestess are assigned? I honestly don't want to say too much about my theories and experiences on this here.

It just seems like this is an attempt to make an important ritual which carries a great deal of precise and relevant Magickal instruction more "pc', palatable, and "user-friendly" none of which seem like appropriate goals for a Mystery School.

I'm sorry if I'm being to blunt here--please feel free to tear my concern apart, I can take the criticism. Cheers.

93 93/93

Incarnation leads inevitably to Death. Suicide is premature. "Death is only the beginning". Suicide is like a self-abortion, discarding, disrupting. There are more profound sorts of destruction--and if you willed to incarnate, then you willed your death in advance. Suicide I believe is involuntary.

I experimented with this sort of thing with poor instructions and ill-preparation. Not a good time. In fact it took quite a while to recover and I'm still not entirely clear on what happened. So I guess, just saying--this could be a powerful experience and I see the potential for awesome growth, but watch out, and don't mess.

A teacher attracts students and a ready student attracts teachers.

It's true that when you are doing your Will everything seems to fall into place more easily than one could imagine.

Love Under Will!

M

^ That's a pretty good idea.

I ahve a similar problem in that i currently have my only space for rituals in the room with books, a computer (not ideal) and a small reptile who is constantly disturbed by my magickings. The space really does make a difference in the psychological effect and the actual results I think--having worked in a much better space previously I can see the difference. I have been thinking about trying some things outdoors--in the mountains, in a nearby park where I'm not likely to be disturbed. Maybe you could find an outdoor area. To me it might be just a touch better than mucking about in a cluttered space.

Thank you so much. I know that if nothing else I can count on this place for some good opinions and experience. I will check out those books asap!

Love Under Will,
M

not entirely on topic--but try lining up the tarot with the malkuth of each suit representing the tiphareth of the suit "above" it (so, making the tree of life with each suit but with the malkuth of one being lined up next to the tiphareth of the next). it all starts to make a lot of sense (new visual represetntaions of the four worlds).

Anarchy in the US forever--both of them be damned.

So far this has been the most difficult topic to start to unravel. Much like the writings of Crowley himself, the topic of Alchemy is composed of so many varied and complex texts each of which require a knowledge of others in order to start to unravel the puzzle. i don't object to this. It's a nice challenge, and things do indeed become more clear the more I read (e.g. if I read through something once, I have no idea whats going on, but as I gain more background I come to understand more). This has been my experience with Thelema and Magick in general.

Still I'm wondering who some of you started reading first in this area. Dee and Meyer have been suggested to me for starters. Just kind of wanting opinions on this though--is there a good "starter text" out there? Should I shut up and continue to muddle through (probably)?

93/93
MSL

I don't think money should be an issue for anyone who is any kind of Magician at all. Where there is a Will there is a way. Really. I was confused as to how to get the ball rolling on my studies a while back--I think the secret is to start doing something (anything!) and things will start to fall into place.

I also haven't been confronted with any unreasonable fees by anyone I respect.

I think there is fear you can ignore, and then there is common sense you shouldn't. Sometimes the test is to trust yourself and your "instincts" or knowledge. Fear can be a hindrance. So can blind faith. I recently made a mistake by deluding myself and "believeing" or having trust where i shouldn't. MY fear or sense would have served me better.

finally getting the chance to join a body. Maybe in a few months. Very excited.

Also I'm a psychology student.

We create the world around us. doctors and Psychologists aknowledge this as much as mystics. If they are a part of the brain are they any less external? If they are not, are they any less a part of the psyke?

Thanks for the suggestion.

Incidentally the universe provides. I might have a solution soon.

--M