College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

93,

@Dar said

"There is a tendancy for spiritual tourists in our western cultures to get off on the aesthetics in order to feel they are getting somewhere, as well as the tendancy of teachers to cater to them.

For instance... rolling the word 'Pranayama' around your mouth - it feels nice and foreign and impresses your mind much more than saying 'extended breathing' or 'energy work with extended breathing'. But how useful is this to your practise?
"

I think that's some great advice!

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AL H-ShMATh

93,

Wow Vlad, that's a beautiful post! What you describe as "brilliance" seems pretty synonymous with my understanding of "Will." Was that intentional? Seems like it was, but that might be my perspective coloring it

@Vlad said

"Often we hide our own brilliance behind the veils of religion and dogma, thinking only about the words, names and figures, and forgetting the content. It is the words and names that make the wars, not the content. We consider ourselves Buddhists or Christians or Moslems, and forget about the application of love. We consider ourselves black, white, yellow, and forget that we're human beings. We consider ourselves man and woman, and forget to hold each others' hands. We consider ourselves Finnish, German, American, Indian, Chinese, Mongolian, and forget that we're all living under the same sky and we're all feeling the same kinds of joys and sorrows."

Your post also puts me in mind of the fact that there seems a tendency for us Thelemites to fall into the same trap of dogmatic perspectives and attachment to words... Very thought provoking. Thanks!

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AL H-ShMATh

93,

Nice! (Choppy on the cpu I'm on now, but looks really great!)

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AL H-ShMATh

93,

@Dar said

"Other folks will point to the power of suggestion and point to the fact that people can be induced to see pink elephants as evidence for this belief."

I feel inclined to suspend disbelief for long enough to actually buy into the idea that there is an external reality, so why not exercise the same suspension of disbelief for the purposes of experimenting with other aspects of mental perception?

It's always good to dig up whatever info you can on different theories, but it's of course always important to balance theory against your personal practice and experience. Whenever I teach music theory, I always remind students that it's called "theory" for a reason!

93 93/93.

AL H-ShMATh

I can only speak to my own experience (as if that weren't painfully obvious!), and I'll readily admit I'm no expert, but for my two cents:

I found when initially practicing any Magick or what-have-you that required visualizations, that my ability to visualize seemed weak and unfocused. It was very frustrating. Practicing Resh four-times-a-day over a couple of years has massively improved the situation, and if there were no other benefit to Resh I would continue practicing it for that reason. My visualizations, though they still stand to benefit from continued practice, have at least reached a point where I am able to sense how visualizations affect the Astral Light. And this has gotten me a sense of the Astral Light itself, which is a thrilling validation that I'm not just fooling myself into make-believe.

So for me, practicing Resh has been a bit like doing regular exercises on the guitar: it keeps the faculty of visualization in shape; but if the visualizations & mental focus are allowed to evolve (like changing up the exercises on guitar, keeping them challenging or at least engaging), progress is continually made a well. (You may not know initially why you need to learn scales on an instrument, but it becomes clearer in time and practice.)

All that being said, posting in this thread is causing me to realize that lately I might be getting a touch complacent with my Resh practice! Time for me to rejuvenate the experience!

@RobertAllen said

"
On a non-philosophical note I'm curious what the cumulative effect of assuming these god forms over a significant period of time has on the body of light. Is this something that can be noted and does anyone have any related insights?"

I'd love to hear input on your question from someone more experienced as well!

danica beat me to the punch here, and is right on! Allow your understanding and philosophies to evolve over time and practice. It's helpful to explore what archetypes YOU'RE struck with, on a deeper-than-intellectual level when meditating on the gods of Resh; also, identifying yourself with the Sun is helpful, keeping in mind that morning, noon, evening & midnight are only "illusions" (so to speak) created by our perspective on the Earth as it turns -- the Sun is unaffected by any of them. (At least that's the approach I use -- take it or leave it!)

I've been doing Resh regularly for a couple of years now, and the visualizations and mental focuses continue to evolve

I don't think your insights were painfully obvious at all! "Foundational" is a much better way of putting it -- and that's in no way meant to seem a trifle of a thing. No matter how "advanced" you get, it's always important to practice your fundamentals!!! I think it's great to reassess things from time to time, and it's especially nice to be able to find out how others see things. Particularly with such a vague thing as gematria, which nobody seems to teach clearly (if someone even could!) it's easy for things to get convoluted, and even fall into the realm of OCD. So clarifying once in a while what the goals are, what the purpose is, is very helpful.

To build on this, I'll share my perspective on gematria, since often I'm baffled by the approaches of others, and hopefully if we share ideas I can get a better grasp of the perspectives of others... [If this should be another thread, let me know or feel free to copy/paste over to a new thread....]

So I've got an analogy in mind for my perspective on gematria, though it may or may not be perfect. Gematric data strike me as being like little shards of glass: pretty much worthless units in themselves, but capable of reflecting the light of insight. When one stumbles upon two shards that reflect the same thing, it can fire off an insight or break down a mental barrier.

The danger, as I perceive it, would be in getting too hung up on the shards of glass themselves -- the old Chinese saying comes to mind: "It's like a finger pointing to the moon; don't stare at the finger, or you'll miss the moon."

But this is my standpoint, and I'm interested in getting the perspectives of others! I'm not so self-assured as to think I've got it "right."

Sorry, realized I was moving off topic to "dream interpretation there...

93,

@horustheantichris said

"To better make sense of Liber Resh I researched the four Gods. My interpretation of the meaning of each of each of these Gods as they relate to the various positions of the sun is below. Have others noticed this esoteric meaning? Am I reaching?

RA > His vital daily task was to guide the sunboat through the skies > Today is going to be a good day.
HATHOR > Goddess of pleasure > Today is a good day.
TUM > "he who completes or perfects" > Today was a good day.
KHEPRA > carries the sun it safely through the underworld every night > Today was a good day."

I don't know if this contradicts, elaborates on, or adjusts your approach, but for myself, I approach Resh as a means of regular mindfulness, mentally saturating myself with the archetypal symbolism which the four gods represent. It also serves as a constant reminder that the appearance of morning, noon, dusk and night are illusions of perspective -- as are birth, life, death and afterlife -- but that the Sun is in fact unchanged by these things ("there is that which remains.").

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AL H-ShMATh

93,

@Foolster said

"But that's the nature of language right? Even in english there is disagreement regarding segments of Legis, so will it be in other tongues. Even if there is misunderstanding ...."In the beginning doth the Magus speak Truth, and send forth Illusion and Falsehood to enslave the soul.Yet therein is the Mystery of Redemption.""

Right on! "There must ever be division in the word." An analogy I have in my head is that the language of Liber AL is like a prism. Translating it into another language is like holding up another prism in front of it: inevitably you're only going to get a portion of the light from the original English version. (You might argue that a prism that caught all the light could be possible; certainly, but it would have to cover tightly the whole face of the BOTL "prism," and therefore would itself be the exact same language!) So this is argument for "always with the original in the English."

But by holding other "prisms" up to it (translating into different tongues, or even numerous translations into a given tongue) various insights may be obtained.

I think it would be great for dedicated Thelemites to, at some point in their "career," be able to both copy out the English BOTL from memory and to translate it into another tongue. It seems reasonable that the process of translation for an individual would be partly intellectual, but largely also intuitive. In this case, the emphasis is no longer on a translation that numerous people could gain insight into on par with the English; instead the emphasis is on individual, personal revlation.

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AL H-ShMATh

93,

RobertAllen, just thought I'd play devil's advocate: I seem to remember reading a post about a month or two back wherein you mentioned (I believe; memory's not clear) you were reading one chapter of The Vision & the Voice each night aloud... If that's correct, would it make sense if the dream was images bubbling up from that? Anyway, the fact that the "between four and seven thousand" was money seems highly significant, in that it colors whatever "wisdom" you might have been asked to hide.

Also, did you feel any pang of guilt in posting the dream info here, as if doing so made you no longer "eligible" for the reward money? I ask these questions because I've been finding with my own dreams it's good to approach interpretation from both avenues of thought -- that "there is deeper meaning," and that "there are mundane explanations" -- simultaneously, since it provides some degree of "triangulation." Your dream sounds very interesting on this note.

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AL H-ShMATh

93,

I found that through learning the guitar and music, practicing for up to 8hrs or more per day, I was practicing core elements of Magick and Yoga, learning both concentration and how to essentially become a "conduit" for the creative force. Magick/Mysticism practices and musical practices definitely play off of one another -- and inform one another -- in my experience.

I'm blanking at the moment, but I know A.C. had made a point somewhere (probably "One Star in Sight") that every Aspirant should have a strong grasp of at least one of the arts, as well as a couple of the sciences. Mainly I find that my self-development through Magick/Mysticism is aiding my creativity by teaching me to "get out of my own way" creatively; but it also gives invaluable practical insights.

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AL H-ShMATh

93,

I've been interested to find out if a Latin translation has ever been made. I'm thinking down the road when I get my Latin strong enough it'd make for a great exercise to make one myself, but I'm kinda surprised no one I've spoken to so far knows of one. Much of the Book makes me think a Latin translation might reveal a lot for meditation.

93 93/93.

AL H-ShMATh

"You'll shoot your eye out!" Sorry, couldn't resist

I see what you mean. Food for thought, though... I'll let it percolate and if any ideas pop up I'll get back again.

Maybe another option would be making the audio available online. Obviously you'd have to offset the cost of the recording... If you wanted to make the online audio available only to people who'd purchased the book, I'm sure that's doable, either in using the barcode or by some other means that doesn't immediately leap into my head. Or, of course, you could make it available for purchase online, via iTunes or any other means, and just have links to it printed in the book.

As to what I would want to include on it, I suppose that would of course take some planning out... The first thing that comes to mind would be a language-course-style guide to the pronunciations. It might also be a good idea to include general words that are commonly mispronounced in esoteric circles. (Just to list a few that cause people trouble: "Thoth"; "Goetia"; "Crowley = crow-lee, not crau-lee"; those are just a few that jump quickest to mind.) But the idea of coming up with an audio file, now that I'm getting the noodle working, seems like an exciting idea. I'm sure with a little thought several things would come to mind that would be useful to include and explore -- but then of course you would likely need to keep it fairly brief and not go overboard

93,

I don't mean to distract from MMe's last question, but I'm just curious to know, Jim, had you put any consideration into putting together a CD of pronunciations, etc. to be included with a book like 776 1/2? I'd heard of Regardie's (I believe it was) CD for that purpose, but haven't heard it.

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AL H-ShMATh

Fra. ALLAShALLA, 93
This is not meant to be patronizing or "teaching", but is on point with your last post, and I happened to reread it recently...
From Chapter 28 "Need to Define "God" & "Self", in Magick Without Tears:

""As you travel inward, you become able to perceive all the layers which surround the "Self" from within, thus enlarging the scope of your vision of the Universe. It is like moving from a skirmishing patrol to G.H.Q.; and the object of so doing is obviously to exercise constantly increasing control over the whole Army. Every step in rank enables you both to see more and to do more; but one's attention is inevitably directed outward.""

hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_28.html

Please take this as a friendly gesture, that I think reading this chapter might give perspective. Again, not "teaching," it just struck a chord and thought this might ring true for you as well

AL H-ShMATh

93,

@Takamba said

"I think the main lesson in all this is that it is possibly interesting for some to look at other people's babies - but they usually aren't as cute as the parents think they are. When it comes to these revelations, isn't it more in line with Nu Aeon directions to teach how one comes to such revelations? So when looking at books, and outer orders, etc... that's what we expect and what we find, not other men's babies but other men's methods of making babies. Don't throw the bath water out with the babies on that one.
"

That's a pretty great way of summing up the conclusions of this thread, from my humble POV! At the same time, ALLAShALLA's initial post in this thread was also the spark from which some important thought and discussion was put forth. I'm realizing that's the great thing about these forums -- often they seem to function similarly to an individual's thought-process: There's a spark of inspiration, followed by various arguments for or against it as it is analyzed by various thoughtstreams, from different angles. Eventually through the process there is occasionally a resolution, though not always the resolution at first anticipated or implied. (Sorry if this sounds too convoluted )

93 93/93.

AL H-ShMATh

93,

I can speak from an insider's perspective the OTO is NOT a teaching order (as my initiator reminded me at my very first interview). The TOT IS a teaching order. The OTO's purpose has been described as "the gradual revelation of the secret of the ninth degree" -- aside from this somewhat limited description, it is also a great means of meeting others in the Thelemic community.

@HWNH said

"I am certain that being a part of a formal order is a very salient tool, especially for someone like me who thrives off of a formal curriculum more so than a self-directed one. "

I would say, based on your quote, that the TOT is closer to fulfilling what you're looking for in terms of a formal curriculum. In the OTO you will find yourself still "self-directed."

93 93/93.

AL H-ShMATh