College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

Ordered

@Frater Horus said

"by "human sacrifice" i mean sacrifice of relationships. The great work is hardcore."

Interesting that I come across this topic after some reading I did earlier today. I was reading "The Dangers of Mysticism" by Crowley. Here's a quote from there (Gems from the Equinox p. 865-866) that I think answers this pretty well:

"The Magician is not nearly so liable to fall into this fearful mire of pride as the mystic; he is occupied with things outside himself, and can correct his pride. Indeed, he is constantly being corrected by Nature. ...The mystic is solitary and shut up, lacks some wholesome combat. We are all schoolboys, and the football field is a perfect prophylactic of swelled head."

He goes on to address it directly:

"Hundreds of mystics shut themselves up completely and for ever. Not only is their wealth-producing capacity lost to society, but so is their love and good-will, and worst of all, so is their example and precept."

It seems to me from these passages, that Crowley didn't see isolation/cutting off people as conducive to the Great Work. In other words, the GW isn't supposed to be separate, you're supposed to be in the sh*t.

@Jim Eshelman said

""God" is an ungendered term (unless one is specifically polarizing the genders and needs a separate word). Similarly, waiter, actor, steward, etc. are ungendered and don't need an -ess to make them apply to a female."

That was sort of what I was getting at. In this instance, Nuit didn't feel the need to polarize. Hence, she showed no distinction in the choice of words.

But if we really get down to technicalities of polarization in language, the English language has a lot of dual aspects. For instance, there's no need to polarize subject from verb, and yet, every sentence in the English language requires both (even if the subject is simply understood, it's still implied).

I mentioned Pantheism in particular because of the nature of Nuit/Hadit. Correct me if I'm going off course here, but I understood those two as Infinite Space and the ever-present point. This is to say, the full range of possibilities of what could be and the totality of what is. If Nuit is declaring the two to be "God", then that seemed to fit the definition of Pantheism. Perhaps I'm reading too much into definitions there..

@Jim Eshelman said

"Nuit is credited with saying, "there is no other God than me, and my lord Hadit."

I believe the emphasis should be on the word "and" and the fact that "God" is singular."

Not just the plural/singular play, it's also very interesting that Nuit is referring to herself as a "God" and not a "Goddess." Perhaps because of the interplay involving Hadit?

I also wonder, if this means that a Thelemic worldview would be compatible with something like Pantheism.

I had such a beautiful and wonderful Woden's day yesterday (full moon and all!). I got to start my day off with your response, Jim. Thank you very much for your words. I will spend some time letting them sink in. Of course for the rest, time permitting..

Zalthos and I were talking to each other about this yesterday. We are both really looking forward to the book that you have coming out soon. Hope everything with it is going well! I'll keep an eye on your facebook.

Thanks again

"I just mean you have to get on the court, I guess. It's not so much about lust of result,"

I apologize. I'm not usually one to nit pick. Especially when I recognize how difficult it is to talk about non-dual concepts using a language (English) rooted in duality. I fully understand where you're coming from. Next time I won't give someone a hard time who is trying to be nice to me!

I find it interesting that you haven't read some of the same things I have about incorrect ritual causing bad things to happen. Time permitting, I will run some searches on these forums (and maybe even others) to find some examples of what I've read. Either way, I seem to have a combination of indecisiveness and fear that is keeping me from trying more things in practice. This stems from a combination of those things that I read, my experiences with Resh (which I'd like to re-approach with the attitude you mentioned), and an inner struggle I am currently having (will explain below).

Since I have given my feelings more attention than ever these last few years, I've noticed how "dirty" it feels to work with or even consider working with things that are Hebrew/Christian mythos centered. The most obvious explanation of this feeling would be my past dealings with christians growing up. One of the most appealing things to me about Crowley was how "all inclusive" he was in building his modern movement for Thelema. I like the holistic approach and for nothing to be left out. The use of hebrew letters, angelic names, and other things related to that mythos give me too much of the christian vibe, and all feeling I get from it is the oppression and other aspects that I am still recovering from. Even things like saying will before meals is something that I'm uncomfortable with. For me, when I denied christianity and liberated myself from that ideology, not saying blessing at my meals always gave me a great feeling of satisfaction and freedom. I have always found myself more intuitively/emotionally attracted to runes, but little to no information is available out there regarding their relation to Thelema/Crowley. However, I have so much respect for Crowley and people like Jim, that I see studying the Hebrew letters + gematria as an essential part of practicing the work that Crowley had compiled for his aspirants. I reflected this inner struggle with my new name "Ansuz Aleph."

Speaking of the points in the above paragraph, I have very conflicting feelings about BOTA. I see how highly revered it is after doing some searches on this forum, but when it talks about it's teachings being at "the heart of christianity," I cringed. The real problem here is I'm glad that I was able to liberate myself from that doctrine/mindset/worldview, but I don't want my attitude/feelings become a limiting factor that prevents me from accomplishing the Great Work. I will have to do some more sorting of my feelings before I decide whether not to pursue BOTA.

@EOIW - Thank you very much for your kind words.

EDIT UPDATE: Wanted to update you guys. I registered with BOTA today (I'm sick of my feelings being a limiting factor). I will be following up with some discussions of my journey on these forums. I want to continue my communication. I'm hoping at some point it gets easier.

@David S. I gave serious consideration to pulling around 2k from savings and trying to get Jim to ATL. He said a while ago (think it was in the events forum) that if someone would fund the trip/talk he would come do the lecture. Personally, I'd just like face time with the guy, but after I started putting plans together, I realized that there would be an audience of 2-3 people max. This is mainly because I'm a loner when it comes to my philosophy down here in the bible belt. The Dove and Serpent Oasis is in Atlanta, but I wasn't sure that they'd be interested (also I don't know any of them). Over the course of the next month, I might be having an interview with Google. If that goes well, I have heard that I am required to spend some time on the west coast, and that I can work over there whenever I want. If this happens, I want to get involved in ToT.

@in person interaction. I am currently interning as a Montessori teacher. One of the first things I have learned about is how environment/medium influences learning. Creating the most effective environment for my students is priority #1. There are several things that must be taken into consideration: learning style, subject to be learned, etc. I fully get the principle of "impaction," however, there are uses for each medium of communication. Sure, more information (and unique information) can be transmitted from in-person teaching/mentoring. However, the same could be said about audio/video versus written. Each has it's benefits and downsides. How does the saying go? "A picture is worth 1000 words"? I felt this effect and wished to start a discussion in my thread about medium of communication. With the great strides in communication that we are making as a species, I see no reason why it wouldn't be well worth ToT or any other order's time to take full advantages of the resources available. (Disclaimer I'm not saying that ToT isn't at all, I'm saying that any additional tool: Twitter, Tumblr, Podcasts, Youtube, etc would be extremely effective in reaching more people).

just my two cents

Thanks David,

I must say, you have a wonderful attitude (getting my ass kicked by ritual = adventure ) when it comes to the work described. I never thought of myself as perfectionist (as mentioned by Shadow Self). I've just read an awful lot about the consequences of not performing ritual properly (ie - not closing pentagram in LBRP). This made me more or less nervous to just brazenly attempt ritual without being 100% sure I know what I'm doing. I've tried reading descriptions from writing, but it's difficult to know every detail from written word. I looked up various youtube videos (some from sources I don't fully trust) and in the comments section, there's long drawn out arguments about details of the ritual that was not performed correctly. This is part of the reason I see ToT video for something like LBRP to be so valuable. I didn't seem to have issues with the way I was performing Resh, that just became frustrating because I continually missed the mark for the time it was to be performed, and I would feel so awful when I messed up (how embarrassing is it to miss your Resh time and then have to go write down and record your mistake?). I hear you about "play(ing) to win" but it harkens back to my post, if we're practicing without lust of result, I would have to say: win what? If "There is no practiser, and there is nothing to practise", then what is there to obtain (or win)? Duality always seems to collapse onto itself, but even after it does, and there's nothing left, I still find a pull towards Thelema and Magick. Because as Crowley says, I "can't help" but do the work. Now, I know we've come full circle in conversation, but it's difficult to pinpoint this complex emotion for explanation. I apologize for my rambling. I'm still having difficulty with communication even though I'm pushing myself to type this stuff out. I appreciate you replying to what I've put out there so far. I'm afraid that my long-winded posts are going to limit who all takes the time to read them though..

I was under the impression that BOTA was a west coast thing. I checked their site after your recommendation and saw that they may have some classes on the east coast as well. I need to research some more, but if I can get something in Georgia, that would be an excellent opportunity. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I came across this Youtube channel saying it was affiliated with Temple of Thelema. I messaged Jim on these forums to confirm that it was official. He stated that it was, and there's more content that the NY group has, but they haven't had time to post the rest.

There's one video up currently. It seems to be a very basic introduction to the A.'.A.'.. I'm making this thread because I'd like the members of these board's feedback on medium being used to communicate. For my observation, Jim is able to communicate things from this video that I was never able to get from his posts/writings. No offense meant at all, but I've always felt like his writing can give very textbook-like vibe. But, his speaking communicates more about the message (possibly emotional?) that seems to be lost on a written medium. Video seems to me to do this justice. Just like many things mentioned on here, Jim says that there's only so much he can tell from a forum post, but in person, would be much more effective (looked for some posts to back me up here, but I can find any off hand. I've seen in mentioned before especially in the posts that ask for advice on cleansing or help with ailments of any kind). While written medium seems to be very effective for making sure no amount of detail is left unturned, video/in person presence give emotion and feeling to the message that can't come across otherwise.

I would like to put this out there for discussion about the medium used to propagate the message of Thelema. Does anyone else pick up on much more from this video? Or is it just me?

Also, as an aside, I would like to request from Jim or any other members of Temple of Thelema for proper ritual performance in video. So often I see threads asking details about a ritual or pronunciations that would be answered in a well done and edited video. I think it would be highly effective and very well worth ToT's time/effort.

@Bereshith said

"Then I deleted it. "

I find myself doing this quite a bit. It's part of a big struggle I am having (as you can see from my giant OP). It all seems to be related to communication. I have studied some on the Vishuddha chakra which is the throat chakra. It deals with communication, and I'm trying to find ways to "clear" or "unblock" this.

EDIT: Actually, I need to get a separate thread created about dealing with blockages to expression/communication rather than discussing here.

Thank you all for your kind words. As stated in my post, I'm not new here (at least I wouldn't consider 2010 new). But, I still appreciate everyone's welcomes.

I have changed my name from ANEA to Ansuz Aleph.

In case anyone ever wondered (doubtful, but maybe), ANEA stood for Amor non est aborior. Ansuz Aleph is more appropriate for my personal journey these days.

Dear ToT Forums,

It's been a little while since I first registered on these forums. I had quite a journey finding my way to Thelema. I have always been one to listen more than talk. That translated to these forums as I have been lurking for some time. I realized that part of my silence has been out of fear: that is, fear of rejection by the members of this community and fear that whatever I post might be misunderstood or judged. On more than one occasion, I have typed very large and well-thought out posts. However, before actually posting, I'd change my mind at the last second and delete the whole thing. Even in some of the few past posts I've done, I have put my foot in my mouth and failed utterly at communicating whatever I intended. Recently, I have made the decision to act out against my fears. I have spent too much of my life not letting out whatever was inside. Here's my attempt for these forums, feel free to read or not, it's mostly a post for me:

My childhood atmosphere was filled with bible-thumping southern baptist conservatives. As a child, I learned how to adapt to my environment and coasted on "whatever my parents said" until my early twenties. I have always been a critical thinker, but never really had any issue accepting anything on faith alone. Without getting too specific, certain life circumstances led me to no longer feel this way about faith. I found myself making excuses for my all-powerful-omnipresent deity. Basically the one responsible for creating all the rules to the game I was playing.

I struggled with knowing where to turn, so I turned to my religion and dug deeper. I wanted to know everything there was to know about Christianity: all its principles, the full history, and have the answers to everything I filled with blind faith as a child. This search led me to read about Christian mysticism. Studying that led to reading and studying about alchemy. Reading about alchemy and various forms of mysticism led to me learning about Rosicrucianism. Despite how complex the answers I was finding, they still seemed to point to the same Christian deity and seemed terribly irrelevant. I wondered what type of more modern studies were being done about the Rosicrucians. I inevitably stumbled upon the Golden Dawn and Crowley. The Golden Dawn seemed very fascinating, but still attached to that old feeling that I did not fully connect to even as a child. After reading more about Crowley and the new aeon, I was very intrigued by this fresh approach that seemed to leave nothing out. I read a copy of the Book of the Law and didn't understand one bit of it. The copy I had was digital, to suffice burning, I deleted the copy from my computer. At the time, I didn't even know who Nuit was. I was totally lost at some of the terms used: energy, astral, etc. I did several searches on the internet for some help understanding just what this fellow Crowley was talking about. I figured one of the best ways to understand was to join one of his orders and have someone teach me. I did some research on these orders and their history. I found my way to these forums and read about Jim and some of the books he's written. I went ahead and purchased Mystical & Magical System of A.'.A.'.. I've thoroughly enjoyed the book, but it didn't really seem to help me understand some of the more basic concepts that I was failing to grasp. I did also manage to pick up a copy of Let Your Life Speak on Jim's recommendation. After reading through it, I used it to deeply meditate on my actions and feelings of the past. I have attempted to pay attention to every detail of my "inner" and "outer" circumstances.

I've went back and forth about every order in existence. Depending on what day you caught me on, I'd either be pursuing one thing or another. I still lacked some very basic understanding of everything involved. Since I've been a notoriously cautious person, I was too afraid to practice any sort of ritual without proper understanding of how it was supposed to be conducted. I also have a long ugly history with journal keeping. All throughout my childhood my dad bought me several journals and encouraged me to, "write whatever I want" in it. For some reason, I always preferred to keep some of my most intimate thoughts to myself and not allow them out in any medium. These journals ended up having drawings on the first few pages and being left mostly empty. When I read how much emphasis is placed on keeping a magical record, I was immediately worried/put off by it. To think that my supposed future mentor would be reading my entries and judging me based on them, was enough to discourage me from ever giving it another thought.

Despite these struggles, on November 25, 2011, I began Israel Regardie's One Year Manual. I was so tired of not practicing anything at all that I said damn the consequences: I was going to do the whole thing, Resh, diary, and all. Needless to say, I never made it passed the first few steps and did a nice crash and burn after only a few months of dedicated practice. Resh seemed to be overly difficult, I found myself doing the adorations in bathroom stalls at restaurants, pulling off to the side of the road, in the parking lot of my work, in the back yard of a friend's house, and any other obscure place I found myself. Then I found whatever way I could: paper, phone, ipod, etc. To record the time, place, and any other detail I could. I had all of the times set on my phone so I knew when the best time would be down to the minute. I found on more than one occasion, I'd check the time about 2-3 minutes early, and I would decide to wait til the optimal time. A distraction would arise and I would completely forget until 30+ minutes later. I would feel awful and guilty for every missed Resh and every twitch or scratch during my sitting/breathing exercise. Eventually these f--- ups would start to increase until I became so discouraged that I simply stopped altogether. I never officially ended my dedication to that curriculum, but something seems to be preventing me from going back to it.

Indeed, communication and practice seem to have some sort of blockage within every aspect of my life. Even as I'm typing this post out, I have contemplated more than once, deleting the whole thing and just doing a deep breath. I'm hoping that this doesn't happen, however, I don't want to be caught forever in inaction. My personal philosophy these days doesn't seem to help either. I have leanings very similar to Zen in the sense that there is nothing to be done. Simply day to day living is everything that would ever have to be done. Wei Wu Wei seems to perfectly capture this, "But practiser and practised are one, objectively separated as they are not, as appearance, but noumenally united as they are. There is no practiser, and there is nothing to practise." For me, this statement rings true. Unfortunately, the consequences become, if there's "nothing to practise," then why do any of this magick stuff? When I consulted Crowley's work, this is the answer that I found: "Why should you study and practice Magick? Because you can't help doing it, and you had better do it well than badly." I also find truth in Crowley's words here. No matter what I've studied, I always seem to find my way back to Crowley and Thelema. I just can't seem to help it. This gives me the opportunity to practice without any lust of result, because what is there to obtain if there is nothing to practise? I have wondered to myself if this destruction of duality is my own version of K&C, but who could tell? One of the only things I could ever find about K&C is that it's different for everyone. Sure, people can point to Liber Samekh, but even then, it can't be used as a guide for our own journey to K&C. But even as I have thoughts like that, I say, who is actually obtaining K&C if there's nothing to be obtained?

I have somewhat given up on the idea of joining any order or even seeking a master. Because this is something I have struggled with for so long, I decided to see what Crowley had to say on the matter: "Your work is not anybody else's...". This tells me that I can't look to someone else and rely on them for my journey. Of course, I still believe Crowley saw the use of the master/student relationship (after all, this was his preferred system for the A.'.A.'.), but I don't think that it was meant to be in replacement of the aspirant's journey. I have to be ready and willing to accept whatever my circumstances are. If that means a lifetime of struggling to ever get perform any kind of practice, then so be it. This was another part of the message in Let Your Life Speak: accepting yourself for every part, even the perceived good and bad.

I don't know exactly how to end this message. I'm still fighting deleting it. If anyone out there has read this far, congratulations, you know more about me and my life then my whole family and most of my closest friends.
Guess that means we're sort of close now.

Thanks,

Michael

PS - If anyone out there is from Georgia and would like to meet up for some coffee and good conversation, feel free to send me a PM.

@Jim Eshelman said

"I specifically did not mention standard pranayama, because that can increase anxiety symptoms. (Anything resembling hyperventillating or even hyper-attention to controlling breath ties into the autonomic reactions behind anxiety.)"

Really wish I could have read this post two years ago

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"I would say that you got a ridiculously good deal on your investment of $0 and bad manners."

@ANEA said

"surely you can find something better to do with your time than to post on a online forum being intentionally rude"

As you've so eloquently pointed out, no one here has an issue with you having a different opinion. But, if you'd see the above quotes, it's your approach that won't get you far here. Jim is the admin of these forums, and he has demanded that members engage these topics with respect towards each other.

I told you to cease posting and reading because you clearly said that this was wasting your time. Should you volunteer to waste your time, then so be it, but don't take that out on others here by being rude.

Very sorry to post totally off topic. Just thought I'd like to clarify my earlier post.

@sebastian said

"The student would have a right to ask for a refund, and tell the prof to go **** himself for wasting his time."

While you're entitled to your opinion of others responses, if you find it a waste of time, then please cease engaging in conversation or even reading this forum. If you're already knowledgable of the secret(s) mentioned here, then surely you can find something better to do with your time than to post on a online forum being intentionally rude to someone who is taking time to thoroughly (as well as he is able via obligation) answer your questions.

On the topic:

I say it seems obvious that taking most of Crowley's writings literally would be a huge mistake. Lately, I've been reading through Magick Without Tears, and he says in the note on Qabalah that there is a depth to the Book of the Law that he doesn't even understand and didn't expect to within this incarnation. With this thought coming Crowley himself, doesn't it seem unreasonable to think that one would be able to read a verse of the Book of the Law and just immediately know based on first impression?? Crowley also seems to mock the idea of how some people will read things and take them literally, I see this as perhaps one of the reasons to obscure a passage like this. Making his motives akin to the use of the frog ritual regarding Christianity (if I'm understanding Jim correctly).

"Today, with many portable devices, it is even easier... even a cell phone is likely to have a "notes" app to let you jot a few things."

You still believe it should be hand written in detail later though right? I've heard of some people's journals being fully electronic (due to convenience of space/quick searches). Are you saying that you would support that?

I think even recording that you forgot to or were unable to perform Resh still requires some discipline. For some reason I never considered the idea that I may want to record for other things besides practice. Good call on that.

EDIT:

Nevermind, I found a thread already discussing the questions. For anyone else out there who was curious about the same thing, the thread is HERE

@Jim Eshelman said

"After a decade or so, I stopped recording it except when there was a particular reason to do so."

This very interesting.. A decade seems like such a long time! So how did you accomplish this? Did you carry your journal around with you everywhere? Like to work for when you performed Resh in during the afternoon? Or out with you to functions that lasted late into the night (I can't imagine for 10 years you were at your house every night at midnight)?

Also, sorry I missed what Crowley said about the signs. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction though!

-ANEA

I have a couple of questions regarding Resh. I figured it would be more appropriate to post them in this thread rather than create my own...

1.) In Liber CC, it says "giving the sign of his grade" several times. What is the practitioner to do if they aren't a member of any order? (like in my case)

2.) Is the practice of Resh something that is usually (or traditionally) recorded in the practitioner's Day Book/Journal? If so, is there to be an entry after every practice (four entries a day) or just one entry covering all four?

Thanks in advance,

-ANEA

Greetings,

Let me begin by saying that HOGD, A.'.A.'., and the OTO are all very different organizations with different objectives. HOGD, in particular, operating from an old aeon perspective. I would not consider them Thelemic. Are you? You mentioned magick, but what does the Book of the Law mean to you? If you truly believe that a new aeon has begun after the channeling of the Book of the Law, then I would see no reason to practice with an old aeon-based order. As for the A.'.A.'. and OTO, the only thing they really have in common is their acceptance of the Book of the Law. The beginning of the A.'.A.'. is strictly concerned with preparing the aspirant to obtain K&C with their HGA. The OTO is concerned more with their sublime secret which is central to all of their work. I would make your decision on which order to pursue based on the order's principles they stand for.

Please also keep in mind that this forum is designed specifically for the Temple of Thelema order. While some of ToT's members are also members of other organizations, you may not be able to obtain answers to some of your case-specific questions. You'll most likely be directed to that specific organizations website for inquiry.

As a way-head from here, I would recommend that you run searches for any subjects you may have questions about. You'll find that many things have been addressed on here previously.

Hope this helps,

-ANEA

@Dar said

"It's like.... people in California whinging about a lack of alternative culture in their neck of the woods"

One day I'll find a job out in Cali... One day.

-ANEA