College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

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Does anyone know how old this symbol is? The reason I ask is my grandmother had a portrait of something similar, without the number, and color. Her great grandfather was up in the Masons in Indiana.

Thanks for you replies and the Netzach quote was fitting. Yes, I just had this happen today when I tried to share a past life experience and instead of someone getting my meaning, they rather went for the "thanks for keeping it real, Ron."

I don't think Thelema will ever go through its council of Nicea, at least I hope not. Different organizations might attept this.

I feel we've barely scratched the surface of what the Book of the Law means, and to each individual this is intensely personal.

All myths, beliefs, cultural stories shared have value, imo.

I think the whole group dynamic gets caught up in idealology and misses out on the individual a lot of times.

I'll just put it this way:

Which is more important, promulgating thelema or helping an individual find their true will?

I am a big believer in past lives, I also feel someone could choose to cease to exist too, and even undo that at a later time. I think past/present/future and alternative time lines exist simultaenously, and there are still reality tunnels that spring into being anew too.

It would be interesting, like how the Dali Lama is sometimes picked out by the buddhists priests as the reincarnation of a previous Lama, if that would start happening in Thelemic circles. After all Thelema is over 100 years old.

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Ok, this has always bugged me, I am wondering if it is silly to hold onto a dream, and intent that someday most different thelemic groups will be more accepting of each other?

I am not saying that they aren't.

I guess to move this to the next level for myself, I want to know what others feel about this, and maybe I'll get some new insight on how to shift this view myself.

**Well lately I've been seeing Ra Hoor Khuit as the silent self within, in Jungian terms. The part of me that demands expression, but the part that I usually silence to fit into the culture. When you put a lid on something, you know what happens. This is why I think chapter 3 of Liber AL is all about FORCE. In the past, being a peaceful type, I have denied that, thinking subconsciously I couldn't handle it, if I released it. But lately I've been allowing myself to scream, shout, and get all excited when doing ritual. It makes for a powerful cathartic experience.

Once again, I think the Aeons and Equinoxes aren't actually literal, but rather symbollic. As Robert Anton Wilson once said, don't mistake the map for the territory.**

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Wizardiaoan:
More power to you. The more diversity the merrier. Do what thou wilt!

As long as you are inspired, your are the speaker and the teacher. Establish what you will. I am sure it will be as imaginative and as deep as you and your writing are.**

**And we are blessed that Marilyn Manson rose to the occassion.

Interesting, how the word current is used during a Piscean age. I wonder if we will use a new word during the age of Aquarius.

Alot of this Jung also went into in his writings on Acausal Principle (a rather dry read) but basically introduced his ideas on synchronicity.

Of course, to me, Aleister Crowley was the Great Beast 666 and the world can rest assured that he has fulfilled his purpose and true will.**

Magick is the intent and choice to transform one's life, by affecting change.

Update:

Tonight we had our first snow of the season in Westminster. It is beautiful.

My first initial response upon looking outside an hour ago was: "Now this is magick!"

@Aum418 said

"From your description it seems like you dont understand what Objectivism is (of Ayn Rand) nor do you seem to get the importance between objective and subjective. Yes, two people will give two different reports but the fact that they are reporting on the same thing, both experienced something, etc. shows there was something objective. If one person gives a report and another says: Nothing happened, someone waved their arms & shouted words in some strange language, but that was it - that woudl mean the phenomenon is subjective.

IAO131"

I am reading Atlas Shrugged right now, after seeing the Ayn Rand movie recently on Showtime. Maybe I will come to understand it more that way.

What do you know of her philosophy that would help me come to understand it more?

@RifRaf said

"When you perform Magick (this is in the Magick sub-forum, if it was about anything else I would place it in General) do you believe the "results" are triggered within you, or that you deal with forces foreign to you? If you are one who thinks that both of these things occur, then you (in my opinion) take the objective stance because you are still saying that there is something outside of you (not at all of you) which is involved in the process, even if the "real change" occures within you."

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Well put that way, yes I do believe that the change, brain change or energy change, whatever, occurs within me. So I guess that makes me siding with the subjective answer.

I am interested in numerology. I am wondering, have any others of you here taken a crack at coming up with your own English numerology, or other numerology based on your insights with Liber AL?

@Ra-Imhotep said

"93,

Hey guys, my name is Shariyf Clark. I live in South Amboy, NJ right now but I'm originally from Queens, NY. I've always been attracted to magick and the occult. As a kid, I loved Jean Grae from the X-Men comics and found myself attempting to send telepathic messages to people when I was like 6 years old. I've also had a tremendous fascination with the ancient Egyptian culture since a child. I started pursuing a magical path at the end of my junior year in college with a book called 'Egyptian Magic" by Cassandra Eason. I eventually ran into someone who put me onto the Chakra system, auras, the Tarot and "The Celstine Prophecy" which really got me searching. I then looked into Wicca, which was cool but wasn't really for me so I kept searching. Eventually I came across Richard Metzger's "Book of Lies: The Disinformation Guide to the Occult" which warped my fragile little mind. This is was my first encounter with Crowley, Thelema and Liber AL. I remember thinking to myself "Damn...this Crowley dude is effed up." I dabbled in some Chaos magick, but needed something more concrete and systematic, which led me to Dion Fortune's "The Mystical Qabalah", which was another blow to my mind. I became so intrigued with her work that I took up a heavy interest in the Golden Dawn and enrolled in the Sanctuary of Ma'at self-initiation course but quickly realized that I may not be ready for such intense solitary work. One day I left my backpack on a subway train which had my Rider Waite deck in it, so I went out and got the Thoth deck and became interested in Thelema (I ended up getting my bag back, which is nuts, because if you lose something in NYC you're pretty much SOL.) I eventually ran into the Aiwass study group which peaked my interest in the TOT. It was here that I met Anael and Metzareph, who warmly embraced me, helped me with my magick studies, and became my good friends. At this point I knew that I had found my path and here I am now, writing a novel for you guys.
93 93/93"

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Ra-Imhotep:
Yes, I also loved the Celestine Prophecy books, by James Redfield. And I definitely ate up Richard Metzger's "Book of Lies: The Disinformation Guide to the Occult." Dion Fortunes work has been wonderful to read too, as well as Frater Achad's Liber 31 and his Revised Egyptian Kaballah stuff. Nice to meet ya!

Hi, everyone. I joined November 15th after hearing what a great group this was. I've been a Thelemite since 1984, after my first read of The Book of the Law. I swear when I joined I couldn't find this introduction thread, but obviously, here it is. Better 8 days later than never.

I am an independent spirit, and have attended one Gnostic Mass. I belong to the online cyber group Horus Maat Lodge. I also use to belong to the Greater Thelema group before it went under (ground).

My true will is to inquire and discover, my mom recorded in my baby book at one of my first words was "Why?".

I am a writer and a professional psychic. I am also in various Yahoo egroups, myspace and tribe, also facebook and twitter.

I enjoy exploring and sharing with people.

A lot of my work has been in self-initiation and group work online.

Its nice to be here with other thelemites exploring and learning together.

Some of my favorite things, after reading everything Crowley I could get my hands on has been John L. Crow's numerology book "The New Aeon English Qabalah Dictionary, Gerald del Campo's books too, as well as Nema's "Maat Magick", and of course Lon Milo DuQuettes work.

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@Frater Sabaechi said
"Why should I just treat the phrase True Will as exceptional just because Crowley said so?"

No reason at all... unless you identify yourself as a Thelemite and/or want to discuss Thelemic matters in a group setting such as this.

"Why should the Book of the Law be considered exceptional say just as much or more than the Tao Te Ching?"

No reason at all... unless you identify yourself as a Thelemite. (The Book of the Law and its message really is kind of what the whole Thelemic thing is about, eh?)"

Yes, I do consider myself a Thelemite and have been since 1984. I am seeing Thelema as something more than just a dogma and just something to follow.

I mean even though Frater Achad questioned the Great Beast, doesn't mean that he didn't go on to do his part to expand the New Aeon.

I believe Thelema is an organic attempt to look at the world and universe in a fresh, expanded way, maybe kinda like Quantum Physics (which has developed since 1904 too). But yes, I do get your point and I am not implying that this is not a thelemic group, just asking questions in this thread to extrapolate on my ideas.

If there is no sin, then what wrong do people really do to one another? I rather see it as each of us grappling and exploring to find our place in the universe, aka our true will and true love.

I came over here and joined because of being told what a great group this was. It seems that you've done a good job, even with the cult of personalities and the threater of the absurd in our world today.

Well for me personally the whole concept of Gods is man-made. They are just our attempt to describe the ineffable. I mean the choice of Egyptian Gods and Goddesses is effective, just as effective would be the use of Mayan and Aztec gods and goddesses (since all archetypes of Gods and Goddesses cultural relate to one another in some form or fashion).

In ritual I usually like to mix things up between Hindu, Egyptian, Viking, American Indian and other Godforms that I take on.

As humans evolve I think we will stop seperating ourselves from the Cosmos. We are each fractals of the whole, we are the Gods, Aliens and Demons of our past.

And then there's the whole other Objectivism school of thought talked about by Ayn Rand in her classic work.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand

"Objectivism derives its name from its conception of knowledge and values as objective: neither intrinsic nor subjective. According to Rand, concepts and values are not intrinsic to external reality, nor are they merely subjective (by which Rand means "arbitrary" or "created by [one's] feelings, desires, 'intuitions,' or whims"; like wishful thinking). Rather, valid concepts and values are, as she wrote, "determined by the nature of reality, but to be discovered by man's mind.""

How I feel this relates to the discussion, is that any two people can witness the same event, and because of their vantage points and own personal feelings, when interviewed seperately both stories will usually be completely different, with maybe some similarities. Take the various stories gathered in UFO reports, where multiple people at one sighting see very different things.

@Aum418 said

"
@Frater Sabaechi said
"One question I might ask, if the phrase True Love appears as a semantic ambiguity, why doesn't True Will? Or does it?"

Maybe becuase the phrase 'True Love' is used often in many contexts and you just threw it out there while True Will has its many explanations by Crowley in multiple places...

This thread indeed seems to be an irrelevant rambling like the Crystal skulls thread, but thats just my opinion.

"And perhaps this relates to what I was getting at with this thread's original premise about Sin No More. Maybe we don't have a word for such a state? Bliss? Enlightenment? Well then, maybe we don't have a Western word for what it means to live with No Sin. Perfection just doesnt' come close as it implies more ambiguity."

Maybe its just called normality? Viewing the world as plagued by sin should become the exception, not the norm, I think.

IAO131"

Well with all due respect I didn't just throw it out there. And I don't believe this world is normal just because religions and politics think humans are flawed.

Why should I just treat the phrase True Will as exceptional just because Crowley said so? Why should the Book of the Law be considered exceptional say just as much or more than the Tao Te Ching?

To just accept something because some authority type says its true is still blind faith, which to me is part of the old Aeonic stuff.

Since I was offering FiliusBeastia some links to track down to get more information on the Crystal Skull, I see no reason in you lumping this thread and that thread together as irrelevant. Its ok for me if it isn't relevant to you. Do people really get anywhere in their discoveries and personal inquiries just based merely on agreement? I doubt it.

@Aum418 said

"
"Does Nietzche's Will to Power fit in here anywhere?"

Sure - one can see Thelema as a Will-to-Love instead of Nietzsche's Will-to-power and Schopenhauer's Will-to-LifeIAO131"

Aum 418
Thanks for that, it helps.

@Aum418 said

"
@Frater Sabaechi said
"
I think it relates to Thelema in the sense of a higher intelligence obviously behind the creation of these skulls."

How is this related to Thelema again?

Ever seen this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_skulls#Research_into_crystal_skull_origins

"In theory there are suppose to be 13, but I think that is symbollic instead of literal. Aleister Crowley did visit Mexico and his favorite drug was liquid peyote, although he never discovered a Mayan temple or a crystal skull. Doesn't mean he didn't catch the vibe though. In my years of study and research, I find this an excellent branch of study in ritual magick."

His favorite drug was liquid peyote? Where'd you get that?

IAO131"

Well there are various theories about the Crystal Skulls and yes, I've heard about the antiquities dealer Eugène Boban. But there is really something different about reading that and actually holding a crystal skull in one's hands, for me, at least.

As for the liquid peyote, Anhalonium Lewinii, I heard this from Richard Kaczynski book Perdurabo: The Life of Aleister Crowley.

Lophophora williamsii aka Anhalonium Lewinii, liquid peyote, mescaline.

@fraterlvf said

"
@Frater Sabaechi said
"Maybe True Love is just a cliche, like finding one's true love. Maybe there is a deeper aspect of true love that is an archeptypal energy. You may or may not see where I am going with this, but I think its worth exploring people's impressions."

Nope, I really don't. I am going to retire from this thread, as I believe that it is something of a ramble."

Well I see your point and respect your retiring from this thread. I understand that it might appear a ramble for you, but for me I approach it in a spirit of inquiry.

One question I might ask, if the phrase True Love appears as a semantic ambiguity, why doesn't True Will? Or does it?

And perhaps this relates to what I was getting at with this thread's original premise about Sin No More. Maybe we don't have a word for such a state? Bliss? Enlightenment? Well then, maybe we don't have a Western word for what it means to live with No Sin. Perfection just doesnt' come close as it implies more ambiguity.

Anyone else?

Since the Book of the Law only mentions Will, Ill Will, and Pure Will where did Crowley get the term True Will?

I, for one, would see Ill Will just as important as Pure Will, if it where not premeditated, but actually a direct experience. I am not judging ill will here, in this sense, such as righteous anger, etc.

Does Nietzche's Will to Power fit in here anywhere?

Is Pure Will more like a verb, instead of a noun?

Just some of my ponderings over the years.

Can a plant or animal have True Will?

I do feel True Will to be something of a primal energy, more archetypal.