College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

"It's quality will determine the quality of the results."

I would like to understand this, as it sounds interesting, but I feel the bulk of this post sailed over my head. And that picture didn't help much at all

861 7:7

If a mod sees this, thread can be locked.

Thank you for your response. I do think you might have missed something in my post though: The email associated with Jim's A.'.A.'. doesn't work. So it's not an issue of an abundance of applications -- unless they just received so many that they just decided to not fix the server. Moreover, I don't think it was intentional: on the site, it stills says aspirants can apply by emailing the Cancellarius, except when anyone goes to email him/her, the email gets bounced back to the sender. This is the case with the Praemonstrator email address either.

So my issue isn't just that I'm not getting a response -- it's that the entire A.'.A.'. application process is currently broken, and has been for at least 6-8 months.

What do you mean by this? Are you implying I should just keep pursuing entry into Jim's A.'.A.'.?

It's hard to know the best option... I'm sure many people look at this thread and see desperation, and think "man, be more patient..." but what those people don't know is that before I even started this thread, there had been a three-year period of waiting -- that is, I applied to Jim's A.'.A.'. three years prior to starting this thread, and was waiting in relative silence for that period of time... Then, I thought maybe that type of waiting might not work... Now I'm actively trying to say, "hey, is anyone even running this A.'.A.'. anymore?"

Honestly, what is going on here. On Wikipedia, it says that Seckler appointed Jim to bear her legacy... But yet all the A.'.A.'. emails have been bouncing-back for 6+ months. I don't understand why Jim wouldn't at least fix the email address or remove it -- there is no indication of if his A.'.A.'. is still going or not!

In this thread, it was said that students are still taken on occasionally, if they know Jim in person... But what's the future of this organization?? If just a few people get let in here and there, and the email addresses aren't working, then has Jim simply stopped caring about being the legacy-bearer of Seckler with regards to A.'.A.'.? He doesn't even post here on Heruraha any more, which is the Temple of Thelema's website: the organization that is supposed to continue on Seckler's legacy, too! Is all this A.'.A.'. stuff just being put on the back-burner?

I also know that Seckler authorized David Shoemaker to take on students of the A.'.A.'.. I'm not sure if that means that David is ALSO appointed to carry on Seckler's legacy. If he is, then has Jim just resigned to letting David be in charge of Seckler's branch of A.'.A.'.?

You all have to admit: having all the A.'.A.'. email addresses bouncing back emails for a period of at least 6 months doesn't look good for the future of Jim's A.'.A.'. Is Jim allowing his branch to sink into obscurity, or is he just busy and will pull the reigns out to revitalize everything?

I completely agree with you. It's not that I feel this particular lineage must be the only correct one... Let me explain my stance briefly.

When I read Crowley, I'm amazed at his intellectual acumen, his poetic style, but beyond this, I get this clear feeling that "this man has what I want." But it's deeper than that: it's this hard-to-describe intuition that this person is an Adept. I get this feeling strongest with Crowley, but I also get this feeling with people like Dion Fortune, and certain members of the Golden Dawn.

When I read the work of the leaders of the other A.'.A.'. groups, I get the feeling that they are intelligent, and that they are strong teachers. But I haven't gotten that unshakable confidence that they are true Adepts. I'm NOT at all saying they aren't Adepts! I'm just saying I haven't received that unshakable confidence... But when I read the works of Eshelman, and even when I just read through his hundreds/thousands of forum posts answering people's questions, I get this feeling that "this man has what I want" -- this hard-to-describe intuition that this person is an Adept.

I have tried to find this with members of the other A.'.A.'. organizations... I wanted to find this with the other organizations, because the other two large ones not only have email addresses that actually work, but that they actually respond to! But I just haven't gotten that indescribable prompting to go forward with those lineages like I have with Jim's.

A few years ago, it became clear to me that the A.'.A.'. is exactly what I've been searching for for many years. Even though at the time, I was within the bounds of fundamental Christianity, the A.'.A.'. was always what I was searching for -- a system of initiation and training into God, into my True Will, into Meaning, into true sanctification.

Ever since then, I knew I wanted to dedicate my life to the A.'.A.'.. Some people might disagree with that, but I don't mean in the way that my true dedication should be finding God, or finding my true self (although the reason I'm dedicated to the A.'.A.'. is precisely because of those things). I mean it in a more mundane way, perhaps: that when I did, if I had accomplished nothing outside of the Attainment of the A.'.A.'., I would die fulfilled, whereas I could have every earthly pleasure and die having never joined the A.'.A.'. and die unfulfilled. Of course, I don't know what I'll think once I'm at the end, but I guess I'm just explaining the importance that the A.'.A.'. has for me. I just have this unshakable feeling that this is the right path for me.

So, if you read the above, you can imagine the significance that the A.'.A.'. has for me. Maybe I'm even repeating myself as to what I wrote many months ago in this thread... But suffice it to say that because this is the one thing I am certain of when it comes to my ultimate life goals, I want to do this right.

Having the unshakable confidence in one lineage, versus not having that confidence with the others, as well as getting that internal "go ahead" with one lineage, versus not having that with the others, is what keeps me replying to this same damn thread, and sending emails every few weeks to the Cancellarius that inevitably bounce-back. And it's also what keeps me from going forward with the other A.'.A.'. lineages...

Finally, as you may or may not know, it is the policy of Jim's A.'.A.'. that if someone has reached the Probationer degree in another A.'.A.'. lineage, they are not eligible for admission into his A.'.A.'. group in this incarnation. Meaning if I did just go ahead on faith with a different A.'.A.'. and never ended up getting that "this is an Adept" intuition, it would be too late to turn around and continue trying with Jim's lineage. So, as you can see from all of this... it's a pretty serious decision for me.

Jim...

You're saying by trusting Takamba, you were able to see the magic eye?

Well, I don't trust him and I can still see the magic eye

But, still not sure about what my eyes should be doing while scrying... If anyone has an answer, I'd love to hear it. Should my eyes be crossed? Should I be seeing "double" when I'm staring into a black mirror?

There is only "one" hidden image. Unless you count the stars and colors and designs as an image... Anything you're seeing beyond that is coming from YOU, not the magic eye, which means why stop at two? You could scry it and get something different each time. But that's not at all the same as the one image that's been encoded into the picture.

Again, there's nothing magical about magic eyes.

Right, I don't deny that all of that is important... But I'm kind of looking for a more physical response. If I asked "how do I change my oil?" it would be quite strange to tell me I need to make sure I have love in my heart first.

Are you saying Takamba helped you see the planet? Because the vast majority of people can see the planet. People who hate everyone can see the planet. Serial killers could see the planet. It's a wholly physical process. There's nothing magic about magic eyes!

I'm not asking about the "inner truth" of scrying, or how to get meaningful information whilst scrying (although those things are certainly important!). I'm looking for help with the wholly physical and physiological aspects of the practice... And I must say, as important as love is, I can see the magic eye without it, heh.

Thanks for the reply.

So, not sure if you answered this or not, but what I'm asking is this: is the same "eye focus style" that you do to see the magic eye (unfocused, slightly doubled-vision, etc.) the same eye focus style you use when scrying?

I'm not using a magic eye as a metaphor for scrying. I'm asking if the PHYSICAL process is similar (for open-eyed scrying, like staring into a black mirror).

For example, when I've stared into a black mirror, I've never known if I was supposed to let my reflection double, or stare and not let my eyes lose focus, etc.

I can see the magic eye without a problem, but it does take me 30 seconds to a minute sometimes. I want to know if the "aha" moment of a magic eye is similar to that of scrying, because with a magic eye, I know when I have it... So I'm hoping to "train my eyes" to focus in that certain way, and then do that same thing whilst scrying, if that makes sense.

I've never been able to deduce the correct way to scry; that is, what exactly your eyes should be behaving.

Do you hold your eyes steady, intently staring at your chosen surface?

Or do you let your eyes lose focus, like with a magic eye.

I struggle with this greatly, so I was thinking of using magic eyes to "train" myself on the correct way to control my eyes whilst scrying. Would this be an effective training method?

Here is a magic eye, in case you know how to scry but don't remember what it's like to do a magic eye. If you fall into this category, could you please do this magic eye and let me know if it's the same eye-movement as with scrying?

http://www.magiceye.com/saturn.jpg

Eshelman, are you out there...

Eshelman, can you hear me...

Thanks for the information; I really appreciate it.

Wow, what a huge letdown! I'm Canadian, so ToT is simply not an option for me (wouldn't be able to stay in the country except for 6 months out of every year, and couldn't be working at all while in the US). And if ToT is the only on-ramp to this A.'.A.'., then I'm screwed.

But what you say definitely matches up to the email situation... That email address is still down, so I guess it's down for good.

Although I can't imagine how hard it is to progress if it's that hard to become a student! I mean, even if I became a Probationer by some miracle, I can't imagine there are many Neophytes, or many Zelators, etc. all the way up! Moreover, if the only on-ramp is ToT, it stands to reason that the vast majority of members would be in the LA area! sigh.

Would you mind if I PMed you to discuss more about your experiences with Shoemaker's lineage? Or are you really hush-hush about everything?

Thanks for your response.

I've been interested in being received into the A.'.A.'. for years now... I've made contact with both Shoemaker's and Gunther's lineages in the past, and while I feel the former is a better option (for me, anyway) than the latter, I nevertheless feel this inexplicable drawing toward the A.'.A.'. that Jim leads.

Of course, if Jim's lineage is defunct and/or not receiving any new students, then my intuition must be off and I best re-calibrate.

Nevertheless, I'm hoping for confirmation that Jim's A.'.A.'. is defunct/inactive (at least where new students are concerned). Then at least I'd know I'm barking up the wrong tree. Jim (or anyone else in the know about this particular A.'.A.'.), can you confirm (or deny)?

Cancellarius email is still down (still getting a bounce-back). Jim, are you around?

I wish to get into contact with the A.'.A.'.

My first line of attack was to send you a PM, Jim, that I really hope you are able to read, though I know you don't love PMs and don't check them very often...

My second line of attack was to again email the Cancellarius. However, I received a bounce-back, so I think that email is down!

My third line of attack is to post publicly on the forums. So here I am! I guess my reasons for posting here are twofold: I'm hoping to draw your (Jim's) attention to your PMs, but I also just want to let you know that the Cancellarius email is down in case you were unaware of a technical issue. Feel free to delete this topic as I don't really have anything to discuss

EDIT: I know you are on a two-week imbibing tour/bender, so no rush

I'd love for this to run this year.