College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

My classifications will not be your classifications, I agree that Saturn is certainly more fitting for controlling behaviour, your issue is not just one issue but stems from several. Working on these issues, these socialisations, and self-created demons are a life-long work and won't be remedied by one ritual. It takes work and you would perform several rituals after doing further work after each one. That is a wordy explanation, I can only tell you what my approach is with this ritual. Jealousy in love stems from Venus for me because of personal work I have experienced regarding Venus, also my love life is different to your love life. I also see it as stemming from Netzach in general. But my qabalah is not your qabalah, the tree of life isn't universal, it is a glyph which you map your own experiences on to over time.

The associations will only work if your mind speaks those associations or has learned its own language. That is the whole reason for correspondences that we have a language the unconscious can speak. Reading a good astrology primer will help you with these correspondences, as will mythology.

I would identify a problem in my life as expressed by an unhealthy behaviour. I analyse this problem and get to the root of that issue, where does it stem from? When can I first remember feeling that way? What memories pop up as associations? After a lengthy time of doing this I can normally identify at least one factor, but more often than not I can identify multiple.

I then see which ones are bigger factors and which ones are factors by association. So if your controlling behavior is really a symptom of your jealous nature (It may not be, I wouldn't know because I don't know your mind). It is, therefore, logical to tackle the jealousy first, then the controlling later. There's no point pulling the leaves of a weed and allowing the root to remain.

If you are a newbie to ritual, perhaps it would be best to first learn more about general techniques first before you start messing with your psyche? Simply by meditating on your issues, keeping a journal, and practicing regular hygiene rituals, you will probably see a difference over time. Meditation is also overlooked, the ability to still your mind and gently push aside intrusive thoughts is so helpful and can be introduced into everyday life over time.

I can't comment on other people's journies, but I will say that I have come to the realisation that a lot of my own issues stemmed from various fears, meditating on this fear and exploring it has helped me a thousand-fold. In fact, I would say once I started taking the Great Work seriously the first 3 years of my work was working through my own stuff. I found the LBRP helped, I found that meditation helped, i found that specifically meditating on fear helped, and Jim's ritual helped. However, the ritual was only useful once I understood what the problem was and put in the work to unravel it. This particular ritual, for me, was simply a way of aligning my own unconscious forces with what my conscious Self perceived as the Will at that time. It is a way of ensuring that part of yourself which you have no control over is aware of what you want and is not working against you out of habit.

Again, just my thoughts, others will disagree.

Above all,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I can't identify your root, it is what a good psychotherapist can do. I am a big believer that our adult relationships are largely defined by the relationships we experience as a child. This could mean your relationship with your own mother or primary caregiver, your perception of your parent's relationship etc.

You have already stated more information which seems truer- originally it was a jealousy problem, now you have admitted it is a trust problem, and further still, you realise this stems from fear. The question now is what are you afraid of? Why have you got a fear of trusting women and why are you afraid your partners will go elsewhere?

Meditating on these issues can be enlightening, I believe Jim offers examples of what should be done as preliminaries in the sample ritual in 776, follow those.

First of all, I would recommend really looking at yourself and trying to identify the root cause of your disturbance, normally anything which causes a persistent problem doesn't have a superficial root, it is normally manifesting as x, but arises from a.

I think you aren't just mentioning one problem or issue but a couple which are all directed towards your relationship. They may share a common root and it is the root you wish to tackle, or they may arise from different roots and you need to tackle them separately.

Personally, I would associate jealousy and obsession as negative traits of Venus, not Mars. If there is anger which is separate from the Jealousy that would be Mars, otherwise the anger is more symptomatic.

Sample Ritual 9 in 776 is a brilliant ritual for your purposes, it even has a Mars example. If you decide Venus is more applicable then you would simply rewrite the Mars parts of the ritual, so The Empress card instead of the tower, you would use appropriate visualizations etc.

You cannot destroy these impulses, it doesn't work like that. If it did, life would be so much easier. It is about identifying these energies, these psychological impulses, extracting them and then reintegrating them into the whole so that they work with you and not against you. Too much jealousy is an issue, just enough can be a driving force to better yourself.

I have heard spangles being used to describe the scales of animals before when they glisten in the sunlight, fish is the prime example which comes to mind. It is not every scale of the fish,but rather just a few. I've not really been around snakes so I can't say whether their scales have a similar effect. But I would say spangles does refer to scales. Either that, or Hadit is wearing a pretty dress.

"It's hard to know the best option... I'm sure many people look at this thread and see desperation, and think "man, be more patient..." but what those people don't know is that before I even started this thread, there had been a three-year period of waiting -- that is, I applied to Jim's A.'.A.'. three years prior to starting this thread, and was waiting in relative silence for that period of time... Then, I thought maybe that type of waiting might not work... Now I'm actively trying to say, "hey, is anyone even running this A.'.A.'. anymore?""

The thing is that A.'.A.'. members are not common in any lineage. There is not an abundance of members and most people can't handle the work and drop out during the early grades. That means there is a shortage of neophytes and an abundance of applications, not everyone can be supervised, it is impossible. The neophytes have their own work to be doing and so can't be too stretched themselves. I am not saying this is definitely the case for the Soror Estai lineage, I have no idea, but I can say that in my own experience of my lineage and another that this seems to be the case.

You have also got to remember that the Soror Estai lineage probably gets a lot of applications, it takes time to sift through these and the people doing the sifting probably have day jobs, they don't have time to get to everyone. I have always found that when you are ready the teacher does appear in one form or another.

I wish you luck in your endeavors, but I must say that if I felt ready and felt like I truly needed someone to help guide me, I would place my eggs in many baskets, not just one.

I have read somewhere, perhaps Visions and Voices by Jim (could be wrong), that Crowley's shew-stone was a topaz set inside a wooden cross.

It is clear that you are getting no response, it may be because they don't have the resources i.e. the neophytes necessary to take you on. You seek admittance to the A.'.A.'. but you are concerned about lineage- lineage does not matter, what matters is the calibre of the adepts within those lineages, it should be clear upon your first contact with an appointed superior whether or not they know what they are talking about- because by the time you have read the student curriculum you are speaking the same language.

Why don't you try elsewhere?

www.astrumargenteum.org/en/link

That is a link which lists many of the public lineages of A.'.A.'. around the world, I cannot comment on any of the lineages, how they operate, or if they are taking on students.

The four winds, the four sons of Horus, you can say the elements themselves, the elemental rulers, the latin names for the elements. You have numerous angels from Dee's system, which I would hardly define as Abrahamic.

What you should be questioning is what those beings mean to you- whether they are alchemic or elemental, or both. Whether they are wardens of the circle, or whether you are invoking their influence into the circle and yourself.

I would personally try to find some link between the system with which you are deriving the godnames and the guardians of the quarter.

Another thing you could do is simply abandon the LBRP, it is not the best thing since sliced bread, is largely misunderstood, and is largely over-rated in my opinion outside of the tradition which it is a part of. 99% of magical systems don't practice regular banishings, it is a great tool to have, but, outside of a system, it is useless in my humble (perhaps misinformed) opinion.

"I prefer theurgy and gnosis, I do believe as I said that any spirit I'm destined to communicate with will be present in my own field when I astral project, because it seems both magicians and common people who also do astral projection report similar results about at least how these entities look and feel, I'm sure the type of knowledge they're supposed to carry will be different to each one.

I just feel like these are Old Aeon methods, which I'm not wholly devaluing, as I appreciate their technical precision, but I choose to take from them what is in conformity with my True Will.
"

You seem to be under the impression that evocation can only take place by commanding spirits into a triangle utilising the God names of the Hebrew God, or any other deity. But that is simply nonsense- there are other methods, both outside of the ceremonial tradition and within it. Some people simply leave offerings and call out to these beings and they come, others ask them to come and make a bargain. Then you have others who want to dominate them and believe them to be inner neuroses and not spirits at all. I agree evocation, as taught in the grimoires, is old aeon, the methods can be seen as harsh and cruel, and even supplicatory for oneself. But if you are a Thelemite complaining about a method but don't want to update it and change into a revolutionary new style for yourself, you're a poor Thelemite!

You will have beings when you astral project, the issue some of these beings will be useless, some will be self-creations, and others will just be pretenders. The sphere of sensation reflects and attracts anything which you think or draw to yourself willingly- it's nice talking to your friends, but learning about your flaws from your enemies is also useful.

"By that I meant (from what I understood), to identify angels from their perspective is to have: a serene presence that will result in effortless healing and comfort for the person in turmoil, something probably similar to the Shekinah concept. They don't manifest physically as having a certain form or sound, only light, and in some cases the aroma of flowers coming out of nowhere."

That has never been my experience of angels, however, if you go in with an expectation it will affect your result. If you are to believe the premise that angels exist objectively but are without form, then you must also posit that the form and some the characteristics you give this energy comes from your own unconscious mind. Some of your own ability to create the forms of these beings out of the astral light is what dictates how they are. If you associate tobacco with Geburah and invoke Kamael, you may smell tobacco- as the association you have learned dictates some sort of characteristic of the angel. You may also not. I personally have not met an angel thus far which has not seemed cold and uncaring to me. Never comforting or healing, but that could just be my experience, many new-ages would disagree with me.

"On the other hand, how could you know if these are angels or devas? From what I know and assume, the gods once had a physical incarnation, thus they can communicate with us through our human means, just like any adept or guru, while angels don't.
"

These are all just labels for spiritual beings, I am not of the opinion that there are angels and demons. Merely beings which have been categorized as such out of superstition and personal experiences. You say you know and assume, I don't know how you both can know and assume. I don't believe Gods had physical incarnations, just stories which state they did. How are they communicating through human means?

"Got it. Free speech for nazis, murder for people who speak up against nazis."

My post was more about the fact that Liber Oz isn't particularly practical within a society which is not wholly Thelemic. It is only practical in a society in which everyone follows their Will, or at least, the majority. Sadly we do not (yet) live in such a world.

I think people who preach hate out of fear and hate of another person's lifestyle which does not directly affect them as being unthelemic. However, if I was to live by Liber Oz I would not be allowed to tell them such. My point is that Liber Oz is not a document which is representative to our society.

Most Thelemites who are actually Thelemites would be of the opinion along the lines of "I really couldn't give a damn what you do behind closed doors." Within a society of Thelemites, such as the OTO, Liber Oz would work beautifully. I think Liber Oz was written for the OTO rather than the world as a whole at this moment in time.

If you are living life according to Liber Oz, then these people have an indefeasible right to preach their hatred, so long as they know that their intolerance is evidence of their own impotence. They have the right to think this way, and they have the right to speak this way- by doing so they are not really impacting on anyone or their Will. At least, not in a direct manner, they may inspire others to impede another person's will through their 'inspiring' hate speeches, but then the fault lies with the sheep, not the shepherd (In my opinion).

However, if the same group then begin to beat other's of a different faith/ethnicity/sexuality etc. and actively want to prevent them from utilizing their indefeasible rights to live freely and as they will, then they deserve to be killed (according to Liber Oz). Similarily, however, according to Liber Oz if you start telling people they are not allowed to say x because it offends you, nor are they allowed to think x, then you deserve to be killed. As the saying goes, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me."

To deny Hitler killed Jews is ludicrous. To deny that he put homosexuals in concentration camps is ridiculous. To deny that he medically experimented on twins and disabled people against their wills is ridiculous. He did, or rather, he ordered that it happened. If you deny these things you might as well also deny evolution, gravity, and slavery. The concrete evidence is there, you can choose to believe otherwise, but you are no better than a Christian who believes in Creationism and spouts that evolution is just a theory.

"What's your opinion?"

I don't have extensive experience with the goetia, I have some good experiences and some bad experiences. My bad experiences came about through my own naivete, disrespect for the system, and my own fear. My good experiences came about when I was more experienced in general and I treated the spirits as spirits- individuals, rather than mere portions of the human mind. (I don't assert they are one or the other, just that for me they seemed to be more receptive when treated as objective individuals.)

In my opinion, any magician who has to scream demands and curses, threaten and enslave any being is a poor magician. Lon DuQuette asserts in his books, like most magicians, that goetia were made to serve and should be forced to do so because that is the natural order of things. A lot of white people believed that about black people too, some still do.

Spirits are good at serving, some of the goetic spirits are keen to serve and will make deals with the magician. I don't see the harm of deals so long as it doesn't hurt or hinder either party. Why would you strive to have a bad business relationship when you can have a beneficial relationship which is mutual?

On the post linked above, Jim likens the goetia to an abused child, I think that can be a good analogy, however, how would you treat an abused child who had behavioural issues. You certainly wouldn't give them slap, threaten to exterminate them, and shout abuse at them. You would be firm, calm, completely in control, but fair.

"If you want to watch television, you will behave and clean your room first, if not, no TV."

"If you gain me the ability to make money, I will leave an offering/tell people about your powers/ carve your sigil into a metal so it is permanant." - They really don't ask for much when they know you are not to be walked all over.

I don't know if you have ever dealt with a naughty child, but they tend to laugh in the faces of adults who scream and shout- because as always "Intolerance is evidence of impotence."

It's one expression of the order, just as there are many lineages of A.'.A.'. there are lineages of the Golden Dawn. I don't like to give my opinion on the work of any particular order, but I wouldn't argue with your opinion.

93,

Thank you for your reply. I believe that makes sense and is similar to my own thoughts on the matter, I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track. I believe the LBRP has more of an equilibrating effect, it is more about balance and harmony than banishing negativity and invoking positivity- as some people like to put it.

I have always thought there is more of an invoking aspect to the ritual than a banishing one, comparing the LBRP with the Star Ruby further makes me feel this way. The ritual can be used to banish, but in daily practice, it feels more like setting aside space for the work rather than banishing all energies in the space, whatever is in the space is then consecrated to the work at hand, which in daily practice would be to carry out my Will.

If I was invoking Venus, I would naturally put away items consecrated to Mercury etc. It was more of an issue for daily work. As long as everything is consecrated in a manner which conforms to my Will all should be fine I suppose. I just wanted to make sure that all the previous work I had done was not a waste of time!

93, 93/93.

93,

For most of my magical career I have largely worked within a more psychological framework when it comes to magic- magic only affects the mind of the magician and therefore all the tools etc. are simply there as aids in focusing the mind. It seems as though now I take an approach which necessarily believes in subtle forces which whilst may interplay with the mind, can also exist outside of it.

My question is the following, everytime I practice the LBRP with objects which have previously been charged, am I banishing the charge from the objects?

For example, I have some powders and oils charged with certain energies which I utilise quite often at the minute, I leave them out because I use them most days in certain rituals which I have devised myself and which do not really run off the Golden Dawn framework. But on top of this I regularly practice the LBRP etc. I am wondering if my LBRP is discharging these objects?

I know once a talisman is charged it is to be wrapped in silk, some state this is for a psychological message to the subconscious- this item is sacred, others state that it preserves the charge and protects it during the LBRP. What I have noticed is that the instruction usually states "Newly charged talisman" does that imply that after a set amount of time the energies and links forged with the talisman cement and remain intact- unmoveable by a simple banishing ritual, or does it mean that if I am actively using a charged object but also want to perform my daily hygiene exercises, I am going to have to have an altar filled with objects wrapped in silk?

I know many people will say that not wrapping a talisman up in silk sends out the wrong message, but it doesn't for me- I don't see it as any more precious, it is already precious to me because I have crafted it and put time into it. My only qualm now is if there is a magical use for the silk, or if wrapping items in silk is purely for psychological reasons.

Any opinions/guidance would be much appreciated.

93, 93/93.

Mark.

Those around Hitler did not say nay, mostly because they feared him and his regime, most of the western world did say nay and brought him down. Perhaps if he had been following his true will he would have been a better leader.

Not to mention imprisoning innocent people is inhibiting their true wills, which is inherently against Thelema. There is nothing magical about the way Hitler influenced people, politicians today use the same tactics. Influencing the fear of a people and providing a scapegoat to blame everything on. There's a reason the tories are in power over here in the UK and Donald Trump is in power in the US. They play on "immingrants could be terrorists, terrorists are evil, we will all die if the other guy gets inpower and lets more immigration occur!."

Fear is a powerful tool, and majority is always afraid of minorities, it is a simple fact which has been shown all the way through history. Hitler was not the first to use it and he wasn't the last. If it was his true will to commit genocide, perhaps it was the allies true will to stop it.

You only have to look at classic social psychology experiments to understand how Hitler rose up to gain power and why so many followed his rule. Just look at Milgram's study on obedience which sought to understand why nazis would happliy slaughter people.

You simply can't state that the West does not understand what happened, the West certainly does, the bulk of the war took place in the West. There are numerous records and historical evidence about what occurred in concentration camps. In fact, Karl Germer was in a concentration camp himself.

I won't pretend to be a politician, I am not. But what I do know as a Thelemite is that there is no justification for killing innocent people on nothing more than what they want to believe, how they want to live, or who they want to sleep with. In fact, there is no justification for fearing or hating them either, so long as they abide by the same principles also.

I very much doubt you will find Nazi sympathisers within Thelema, if you do, I doubt they have read much of Crowley. I also doubt they understand the core principles of Thelema. I think the two ideologies conflict right at the core.

As for Hitler being a black brother, I won't comment on that. I dislike using A.'.A.'. terminology and applying it to an individual who was not in the A.'.A.'.. I leave that for someone more familiar with the system than me.

"What do you think? "

Sounds like utter nonsense.

Let's forget karma for a second and just focus on Thelema. It is inherently clear that Hitler was not a Thelemite, the fact that he committed mass genocide with a focus on religious beliefs, colour, sexuality, and disability clearly goes against the premise of three of the main teachings derived from the book of the Law:

"Every man and every woman is a star."
"The Law is for all."
"Love is the law, love under will".

Now from my own researches of Crowley's life I believe he was interested in Hitler, who wouldn't be? If someone is threatening the entire world's way of life, you will want to know something about him. As far as I am aware, Crowley thought him an idiot, or someone who certainly had a twisted mind. I cannot recall the exact words used, but Crowley wrote marginalia in Hitler's "Mein Kampf" which clearly was not in support of Hitler.

Furthermore, a disciple in Germany knew Hitler, her name was Martha something or other I believe, she passed on Liber Legis to Hitler apparently, against Crowley's wishes. It was in correspondence to her he shared further disagreements about Hitler in terms of the law of Thelema.

As for the Secret Chiefs, their motives are never clear. What they are isn't even clear. If they exist at all is debatable. But, I would imagine given Crowley's clear belief in them and the fact that he always heeded their advice (for the most part) that if the secret chiefs wanted Crowley to side with Hitler, he would have done.

Now in my opinion Crowley lived to a great age considering the life he lead and the drugs he ingested on a regular basis. 72 is not a bad age and as far as I am aware he had all of his mental capacities intact and was even still taking scarlet women until the age of 70! He had health problems way before Hitler came on the scene and I think it was a miracle he lasted as long as he did. I have known people live their lives making far healthier choices and die younger. I know very little about Dion Fortune's life, so cannot say anything about her.

So in my opinion not karma from doing the right thing and standing against Hitler in his own way, but merely old age and life catching up with him.

I sometimes have Liber AL present, personally that is often more coincidental than intentional- I don't personally feel like I need it for evocation.

I like to be clean and calm. Meditation for a few minutes before the working seems to really boost effects on my concentration and on my ability to receive subtler impressions.

I personally do not use every attribution listed in 777, but if I happen to have the appropriate scent, candle colours etc. I will use them. I have not found any benefit in using them personally, because I attune to the spirit through the sigil. If the spirit is of a particular nature e.g. of Saturn, fire etc. I will perform the appropriate invocation rituals to attune the ritual space to the nature of the spirit.

Recently I have started utilising and invocation of the Angel before evocation, this seems to aid in the working. I believe it is more down to the shift in consciousness the particular ritual gives me and perhaps a boost in confidence: I believe that is key in this type of working.

The triangle and circle are things I do use. I have performed evocations without both. Without the triangle I feel like the focal point for 'manifestation' is effected. This may have been a one time thing, but it seemed to have an effect on my ability to concentrate, everything seemed to be topsy turvy and I couldn't get any real answers. Without the circle I felt 'exposed'. I feel like something which most texts do not tell you is that it helps to trace the perimeter of the circle astrally, or rather, visualise a bright light where you place the perimeter of the circle (I personally use rope, no writing).

Other than the above, I do not really do much else. I personally do not utilise the curses, the long Hebrew invocations, or command anything by the name of any God. I have never really had the need, especially when I invoke the Angel beforehand. This again, may be a personal result. I do write my own individual call for the spirit, but I don't rely on the power of any deity to cause it to manifest.

I have stripped down the traditional instructions to suit my own needs, I cannot afford most of what the grimoires ask for, and I personally move around quite a bit and therefore don't always have every tool I need at hand. Other people may disagree and some wouldn't approve of my methods, but oh well!

93,

I can only give you my personal opinion. The further along the path you walk you will notice you are drawn to certain god-forms, cultures, and ideologies moreso than other ones. You will begin to realise that a certain pantheon seems to work better for you than another and seems to inspire the passion needed than another. For Crowley, this was the Egyptian pantheon. Hence mysteries of Khem replacing that of Israel.

If you were more inclined to the Greek pantheon you could rewrite liber samekh to conform to your own preferred mythos and the mysteries of (ancient Greece) or 'Olympus'. If you happen to prefer the Jewish school of thought you would use Israel. Perhaps you are more inclined to Sumerian mythology and Sumer.

How does one find one's magical race? I believe it finds you! Others would equate past life experiences and personal karma to one's inclinations in the current life- that matters little. In my experience it is a natural shift which occurs over time or simply happens. Astral work usually gives hints about this, if you are scrying the path of Peh and are confronted by Aries instead of Horus, perhaps you are more inclined to the Greek pantheon. If you are confronted by Kamael (despite not calling for him) perhaps it is the Hebrew one. Mostly there is just a feeling of rightness, or synchronicity to the matter. When you know, you know!

(I don't speak from a place of authority, nor am I voicing the opinion of any order.).

93, 93/93.