College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

Hi Redd Fezz!

Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law

@Redd Fezz said

"... I was just reading about the Buddhist "emptiness" and was thinking to myself: "harmonious balance of bliss = 'nothing,' it seems to me." ... The whole "doing nothing, going nowhere" concept seems escapist, unless that is only half of the idea;"

Since the concept of Buddhist enlightenment can only be experienced and cannot adequately be described in words the use of existing English words to describe Buddhist technical ideas can be very misleading. (How does one verbally describe something beyond the concepts of subject / object when our whole language has a basis of subject / object?) Buddhist dialectics take on two forms. The earliest form was to describe the experience of enlightenment in negative terms. The use of English terms such as "nothingness" is an example of the words selected when the experience of enlightenment is described in negative terms. As Buddhism started to spread into China around 500 C.E. the Chinese Buddhist philosophers started using positive terms to describe enlightenment. Descriptions of various states of consciousness as the different heavens, etc... is a good example of this change.

Perhaps a better description of the condition of Buddhist enlightenment is one of no preconceptions, open to all possibilities, no thoughts of things being good or bad. In other words, total potentiality, no preconception or conceptualization of this or that, subject / object, me / you, living in the moment. You can sort of see if you always lived in this manner you would never be disappointed, because you don't have any preconceived concepts about something being good or bad for you. As a matter of fact the concept of 'you' goes away if truly living in the moment. There is also a transcendent experience that is to go hand-in-hand with the experience of enlightenment that carries with it attainment of becoming omniscient, omnipotent, etc... If you are interested in studying the Buddhist philosophical system that attempts to describe the experience of enlightenment look for books written about Madhyamika philosophy. The Buddhist "Saint" who is credited for developing this form of argument is Nagarjuna. Any of his works with commentaries will get you in real deep real fast. Reading his works will set your mind on end.

Love is the law, love under will.

Nick

93! Redd Fezz,

@Redd Fezz said

"I am currently in BOTA which is very goal-oriented whle remaining focused on the Great Work. I would never have joined BOTA if my goal was not the Great Work because I've never really been interested in magick for any other reason. Some ideas I've picked up since joining BOTA have changed my attitude somewhat. I agree with the idea that one should enjoy inexaustable riches in this life, not obsessed by possessions, but merely enjoying the natural abundance life has to offer, working for these things to enjoy without trampling on others. These ideas don't seem that compatible with Buddhism to me if, as you say, anything not directed to the Great Work is seen as Black Magick. I've been seeing things in the way Duquette describes: "I need a car to get to work and I need to make a decent living so that I can live comfortably enough to dedicate my attentions to the Great Work." Makes sense. What you've now said reminds me of the ideas I got from Buddhism and which have, perhaps unfortuately, stuck with me: I don't really care about material things. Perhaps if I did, I would have more. What I learned since is that material things aren't necessarily going to be fulfilling, but that doesn't mean you should do without if you don't have to."

Sounds like you've encountered the same incongruities that I did when trying to balance Buddhist practices against Western society. Because Buddhism is primarily centered around a monastic tradition it's basis for spiritual development does go counter to our living conditions in the West. There are very few examples of historical Buddhist practitioners that also engaged equally in the day-to-day mundane world.

It's my opinion that although Buddhist communities are trying to change in order to accommodate a Western culture, they are still monastic based. And there is a definite stratification of the order due to this separation between monastics and lay practioners. This categorization of practioners between monastics and lay causes problems with the integration of the philosophy and belief into our culture. This separation, which creates an elitist type environment, in addition to some other issues I had with access to esoteric material in English, and the difficulty of deeply understanding a tradition that is based upon a culture that is so different from my own is why I started my investigation into the Western mystery traditions. I find the Western approach more compatible with my life style - although not 100%. From some initial personal experience there is still a lot of work and life rearranging that takes place, but I'm willing to make these changes. I wasn't ready to give it all up and live in a temple or monestary in order to be considered worthy to be taught. I get to stay engaged with life while I work on my spiritual development. They (daily life and spiritual life) seem to be symbiotic in the Western tradition. Where as in the Eastern sense one must give up the daily life and fully immerse oneself in the spiritual.

@Redd Fezz said

"Now, you've got me curious if the Phurpa dagger and Buddhist ideas I want to work with are incompatible with goal-oriented practices."

I really have no experience with the subject of mixing ritual implements from various traditions. BTW I believe your description of using magick to assist in daily activities to ensure you have the resources to work your spiritual development is in line with what most would call the Great Work. It's all based upon the individual's intent. If the intent is truly for the advancement of your spiritual life, then all is good. But the very same practices can be used for personal (ego) agrandizment.

From what I understand there can be a very fine line here as the ego tries to trick / convince that part of you that has good intentions to use magickal practices for personal gain. This is similar to the abuse of Buddhist tantric practices as one says they are doing the practices to gain enlightenment, but in reality they have a problem with spiritual materialism - performing works in the name of spiritual development, but is really just a guise for the ego. You'll see this in people that use their spiritual leadership positions for personal advancement. Usually their organizations crumble at some point when their ego is no longer able to support what has been created.

@Redd Fezz said

"Are you familiar with Tara? She has many forms and is a very popular deity of Vajrayana Buddhist practice. As Kurukulla or Red Tara, in her wrathful form, she sort of "magnetizes" people and events in the worshippers' favor, a sort of goddess of love and wealth. As White or Green Tara, in her benevolent forms, she provides health and happiness. Surely, in some way, these qualities could be seen as Black Magick. Then again, I recently read somewhere that deep in the heart of Tibet, these magical monks are not really opposed to black magick so long as it suits their purposes and that this is just something the Dali Lama is smart enough not to ever discuss openly. I have no idea of the validity of that statement, but it does seem to correspond with my understanding of the Tao Teh Ching or the Geeta, for instance."

I am generally familiar with Tara within the Tibetian Vajrayana tradition. However, I don't have a lot of extensive knowledge and zero practice experience with the deity. I was initiated into a Japanese Vajrayana tradition which used Fudo Myoo (Acala) as the central deity.

Regarding Tibetan monks using tantric practices for the wrong purpose, once again I believe it's the intent of the practitioner that determines whether practices are black or not. It wouldn't surprise me that there are monks who have the wrong intent and use the practices for the wrong purpose. I have personal knowledge of Japanese monks and priests who have done so. You'll find people like this in every tradition.

@Edward Mason said

"...As far as his mundane biography goes, Crowley is either known from the books about him (none, that I know of, by anyone very deep into a mystical or magical path, except for Regardie)..."

What about [www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561841706/qid=1152590886/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7806164-3301666?s=books&v=glance&n=283155:3srbpb7j]](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561841706/qid=1152590886/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7806164-3301666?s=books&v=glance&n=283155:3srbpb7j) by Dr. Richard Kaczynski

@Redd Fezz said

"... I started to become disenchanted with it [Buddhism] once I discovered they had a concept of "hells" and that they had magic and superstitions just like every other religion... but I figured I might just as well stick more with the "western" since I rather prefer the idea of a magical path than the escapist mystical mentality that seems hell-bent on never reincarnating in this world of sorrow and many concepts seem to confuse self-denial and poverty with holiness."

Hi Redd Fezz,

The study of magic and superstitions within Buddhism is an interesting one. India, Tibet, China and Japan have all merged local folk beliefs, shamanic magic and great magical systems such as tantra into particular flavors of Buddhism for each of their respective cultures. This was done to help the cultures better understand Buddhist philosophy when being exposed for the first time. And over the centuries these systems have developed very powerful magickal constructs. Hence the reason why one probably gets such a strong reaction from using Buddhist implements within their rituals. As a side note to the incorporation of "magick" into Buddhism, in my experience the Buddhist esoteric teachers I've met will tell you any "magickal operations" (using a Western term for familiarity) done not for the purpose of gaining enlightenment (i.e. Great Work) is considered what we would call black magick.

Yes Buddhism has concepts of hells and heavens, but they are not the same as the Western mental constructs. Buddhism states the hells and the heavens are created by the individual mind that is occluded by all its greed, ignorance and hatred causing it not to see the true way of things. The heavens and hells are all fabrications of the unenlightened mind, and are used in the Buddhist scriptures (primarily the Mahayana Sutras) as tools to help others towards enlightement with easily grasped mental constructs that seem to prevail in every culture.

The concept of Buddhist rebirth (not reincarnation, which is something totally different) is caused by an unenlightened conscious stream constantly grasping at things it likes and rejecting things it doesn't to build up its concept of self (i.e. ego). Breaking the cycle of rebirth is liberation - realizing what a trap the oscillating need to want things or hate things truly is. Because of this a true Buddha or Bodhisattva apear to live an ascetic life of abject poverty. Where in reality there motive for doing what they do is totally different; they no longer have a need for any stuff including their body. So why do they bother to stay alive? Because the Bodhisattva vows to aid others in realizing the same liberation they have experienced.

My personal opinion is the Buddhist concepts of Sunyata and how things manifest out of that is very similar to the concepts of Ayin and from that the Tree of Life. I would recommend for those that enjoy studing the philosophy that attempts to capture the experience of enlightenment to read some of the Madhyamika philosophy written by Nagarjuna. Those that also study Kabbalah will find striking similarities in the attempts of sages both East & West to verbalize experiences of these rarified states of consciousness (or lack there of ).

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law!

Redd Fezz, I totally forgot about the promise to post a reference to the original tree of life figure(s) you posted at the beginning of this thread. A friend of mine returned a loaned book tonight which in turn reminded me that I still needed to post a response.

Z'ev ben Shimon Halevi has written a goodly number of books on traditional Jewish Kabbalah. His teachings come from the Toledano Tradition out of medieval Spain. His Kabbalah Society web site is cardinalpublishing.com/newks/index.html. All his published books are listed on the site.

A comment regarding the books I've read of his. There is a tremendous amount of repetition. Of those books I've read I would estimate 30% to 40% of each book is repeated in other volumes. However, they are still worth the read.

Love is the law, love under will

Nick

93! Redd Fezz

The diagram in your original post is from a specific Jewish Kabbalistic school. I'm out of town at the moment and don't have access to my library. When I return this weekend I'll post some books by a Jewish Kabbalist who has been initiated into this school and has written some excellent books using this particular model.

Love is the law, love under will!

Nick

@Edward Mason said

"Wouldn't that be true of all the systems? One day, we find we're just not in Kansas anymore. This would be standard in all schools of Buddhism, I'd have thought, to cite just one example. Are the Chaos people just reinventing the chakra? Or maybe failing to do so?"

Yes, I would agree that the purpose of many esoteric formulae is to have the practitioner come to experience things as they really are. Most of these systems are focused on a spiritual persuit. As I have been lead to understand chaos magick it doesn't have one particular focus such as accomplishing the Great Work. Rather the focus is to make the practitioner more efficient at reaching his or her personal goals. At least this is the view of those that I have spoken to regarding chaos magick. I've only spoken to a few, and don't have first hand knowledge so I may be very wrong in my understanding of chaos magick's intent. I believe there are individuals on this list that do have some first hand experience and they might be able to 'enlighten' us a bit more.

A few insights I've learned from people practicing chaos magick is that it is a very advanced system for psyche deconstruction. Obviously this is coming from those that truly use the system for its intended purpose and not the 'kids' that think it's cool to have the moniker of chaos magicians.

As I understand it by using a number of magickal formula, or systems, as one's personal practice over time one learns that the systems themselves are a means to an end and not the end in and of itself. This leads to an understanding that all our beliefs are anchored on shifting sands, that nothing is really as it seems. The only way to really understand this is from an experiential / transcendent point of view, which is developed as one constructs and deconstructs various belief systems. This in turn leads to a trancendent understanding / experience of how the metaphysical mechanics of the universe work which in turn gives the chaos magician insight into how he / she can shape reality to his / her personal will.

One of my friends who has practiced chaos magick said it is the most effective and direct magick for influencing and shaping your reality to your will. Notice that there is no mention of the Great Work involved. Some of those practicing chaos magic are using it to further the Great Work, but many involved are using it for the purpose of sorcery - use of magick to further their own personal goals - and have no desire to realize their HGA.

@DavidH said

"Can anyone think of a religion, system, or what have you that teaches similar ideas?"

Chaos Magick uses sensory extremes as part of their system.

@Jim Eshelman said

"But I think there's an excellent change that Crowley was correctly seeing his own ideas and words quoted in Hitler's private conversations, and I'm more inclined than not (say, certainty of 7 on a 10 scale) that Hitler had significant exposure to Liber L. and to Crowley's writings during key periods, at the hands of someone he valued as a teacher."

Point taken Jim and by association your responses as well Redd Fezz. Based upon what you’ve read from Crowley’s personal writing we can only assume he was exposed. However, I stand by my original statement that Hitler's concept of a National Socialist Germany developed long before his exposure to Liber Al. Perhaps he found Liber Al sympathetic to some of his existing political agenda?

At the same time I don't know how one justifies genocide in light of Liber Al's main thesis, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". I doubt very much that Crowley was aware in any detail of the death camps within Nazi Germany when he made the notes in "Hitler Speaks". Yes, I know there were public reports about some of the atrocities taking place such as Krystalnacht in the early ‘30s. I can't explain why people at the time chose to turn a blind eye to these reports. Why did Britain decide not to honor its defense treaty with Poland after Germany invaded? It’s complicated no doubt.

Getting back to what started all this reference to Crowley and Hitler… My point being Crowley should not be thought of as sympathetic to the Nazi political cause, and by association with the atrocities of Nazi Germany, just because Hitler had exposure to a Thelemic teacher and Liber Al. Could it be that Crowley was 'rooting' for Hitler for the sole reason that it appeared Hitler was interested in the Thelemic current? And potentially because Crowley may have had hopes that Hitler (who was thought of as a dynamic leader by other world leaders prior to WWII because he pulled Germany out of a serious economic depression in less than a decade) may adopted Thelema? And not because Crowley necessarily agreed with National Socialism?

It would have been interesting to see what Crowley thought of Hitler during that same time period if Crowley had known about the death camps and the other savage acts that the Nazi's committed in the name of their cause. I just don't see how Crowley could have accepted what the Nazi's did to others and at the same time espouse the teaching that each individual has the right to pursue their true will. Similarities can be found between any two complex structures – even opposing ones. But that doesn't make them sympathetic to eachother. If there ever were two opposed agendas Nazism and Thelema are certainly good examples.

OK... I've probably belabored this point more than was necessary. I'll get off my soapbox now.

@Jim Eshelman said

"You're not saying there was a German "Aryan" before Hitler coined the term, are you?"

Heavens no! My point was that the concept of a German Aryan has nothing to do with the true anthropological term "Aryan" which defines a culture in the Russian steppes that invaded northern India.

Is it thought that Crowley selected the swastika because it was from an "Aryan" tradition, confusing the true Aryan with that made up by the Nazis? Or was it just coincidence that the symbology he selected just happened to be from the real "Aryan" peoples?

@Redd Fezz said

"I think Jim also mentioned that he believes Hitler did find validation in Liber Al based on his research and that the above quote attributed to Crowley appears to him to be "representative." "

Jim I don't mean to put words in your mouth, so please correct me if I'm wrong here...

I believe what was said is that Crowley made a number of notes in a book entitled "Hitler Speaks" where he (Crowley) found, in his (Crowley’s) opinion, corollaries between Hitler’s speeches and Thelemic teachings. I don't know of any evidence where Hitler indicated in writings or any speeches that he was using Thelemic (i.e. Crowley's) material for formulating the National Socialist society. If you know of any material that points this out I'd really like to see it.

@Redd Fezz said

"
@Nick Rusch said
"
93 All!
Let's look at some historical facts before saying Hitler used Liber Al as a basis for his creation of the Third Reich. Hitler's ideas for a nationalistic Germany started early in his life. "

We know that, but that doesn't mean he didn't find cosmic validation in Liber Al. "

So based upon historical fact and lacking any historical evidence to the contrary that Hitler said or wrote anything about using Thelemic material for creating a national socialist state, I would say we have no known evidence that Hitler used Liber Al to find cosmic validation. I would be surprised if he did. Hitler was never one to seek validation from others...

@Redd Fezz said

"Hitler used the Kabballah, too, despite being antisemitic and he was antisemitic despite being Jewish himself. So, I wouldn't base much on the fact that Nazi Aryan is a totally bogus concept."

I'd like to know where it has been documented that Hitler was a student of the Kabbalah. I know of no such reference. Hitler had an interest in astrology. Himmler with his SS tried to create an occult society using Nordic ritual and tradition that was made up as they went. It leveraged Germanic and Nordic folklore and traditions. Many of the blank areas of knowledge were filled in with National Socialist propaganda. This should not be confused with the Kabbalah as taught by Jewish or Christian mystical traditions.

93 All!

Let's look at some historical facts before saying Hitler used Liber Al as a basis for his creation of the Third Reich. Hitler's ideas for a nationalistic Germany started early in his life. Following WWI Hitler had a brief stint with the Freidcorps (paramilitary forces made up of primarily out of work WWI soldiers who fought the Communist movement). The Freidcorps were funded by the industrial giants within Germany who had the most to loose if the Communists took power. It's my personal belief that the economic humiliation suffered by the Germans after WWI (due to the Allied armistice conditions) created an atmosphere of 'Germany against the world' for the German people. I believe this feeling of economic isolation experienced by the Germans while fighting gangs of Communist thugs attempting to overthrow the existing Government went a long way in paving the way for a nationalistic political movement in Germany during the early 30's.

Regarding Hitler's anti-Semitic beliefs some believe that he began to foment anti-Semitic behavior prior to WWI when he didn't make it as an architect. It's been a very long time since I've read a biography on Hitler, but I believe there were Jewish scholastics and business owners that he thought stymied his professional advancement. Many Western European Jews held very prestigious professional positions at the turn of the century. At the end of WWI as a social-cultural group they were one of the better positioned to recover from the war in Germany because of their pan-national society. This made a convenient economic scapegoat for Hitler. As someone noted earlier anti-Semitism was not confined to Germany, but pervaded the entire European continent at the turn of the century and the decade that followed. So Hitler's sentiments were not unique. His action based upon his sentiments were.

As we can see Hitler's ideas of a nationalistic Germany started early. He joined the National Socialist Party in the very early 20's. He along with others in the Nazi Party attempted to overthrow the local Bavarian Government in Germany on 9 Nov 1923, the Munich Putsch. He was arrested, tried and placed in prison for his participation in the attempted Putsch. While in jail he wrote Mein Kampf during late 1924. If you read Mein Kampf you'll see that his entire nationalistic political agenda was already formulated. This being the case one can assume that Hitler’s agenda was fairly well formulated in his head before he wrote Mein Kampf.

It would be interesting to see any evidence on when Hitler met this Ms. Kuntzel. Dr. Kaczynski only gives an approximate time of the 1920s per the earlier quote in this thread. Considering Liber Al was written in 1920, and Crowley had lost the document for a number of years after it was written I highly doubt Hitler was influenced by Liber Al during the years he formulated his nationalistic political ideas. What might be said is that there are many coincidental similarities between the ideas stated in Liber Al and in the societal organization of the Third Reich. (I say this based upon comments made by others in this thread, not my own studies.) As Jim mentioned in his earlier post there is no direct evidence that Crowley ever hand any first hand contact with Hitler by written correspondence or otherwise.

Regarding the use of the swastika it should be noted that the Aryans of the Nazi Party and the Aryans of India are two very different cultural groups. Archeology and anthropology studies show that the Aryans which invaded India came from the steppes of what is now south central Russia. They were a nomadic people who worshiped an early form of Agni, the fire god of Hindu belief. The Nazi Aryans were the Germanic tribes that came out of Eastern Europe and the Ukraine. They were an agrarian society who had a polytheistic belief system. Now at some point in the ancient past they probably came from the same stock of people since they do share an Indo-European language root, but that would be like saying the French and the Spanish are the exact same cultures.

"Malaclypse wrote:
According to an unconfirmed source Kaczynski also practises magick so there's no meaningless scepticism in it."

Dr. Kaczynski is a Thelemite. If you are interested in hearing some interviews of Dr. Kaczynski checkout -
Thelema Coast to Coast #03: May 7, 2005,
Thelema Coast to Coast #19, January 22, 2006, and
Thelema Coast to Coast #23: April 5, 2006

The V symbol was used by Winston Churchill, the British Prime Minister during WWII. It stood for victory. I've never heard any occult reference to the use of this symbol during WWII.

Nick

Jim, thank you for the study guidance. As part of Dr. Case's excellent work True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order I read both manifestoes earlier this year. My intent was to do some extensive follow-up study of the manifestoes as well as Dr. Case's esoteric analysis of these documents. This was going to take some effort as there is a tremendous amount of material covered in Dr. Case's book. Opportunities, and hence other higher priorities have pushed that study to a backburner for the near future. But this is definately something I will take up when the opportunity arises again along with the suggestions you've made in your post.

Your description of the association and inter relatedness of personal and collective freedoms, governmental structure and spiritual advancement could be a life time study in itself. One corollary that struck me immediately was the fact that republics and democractic systems of government was a Greek development. In your opinion, would you link the Greek's development of a democratic form of government to the workings of the Inner School as well? (The democratic ideal for that period of time dominated by totalitarian states seemed to be a fairly radical government type.) Or do you believe the evolution of a democratic government in Greece was independent of the Inner School? If the answer is yes, the Inner School was involved, then is there any aspect of positive collective human development and evolution not guided by the Inner School?

@Jim Eshelman said

" ...the United States has been explicitly crafted by the Inner School for centuries to serve a specific role in the evolution of Earth, as the specific place of development of those things necessary for humanity's social and cultural evolution."

I find this fact fascinating and would like to study it in more depth. I know there has been books written on this topic; recently more than ever. I might be showing my ignorance and lack of familiarity with key occult texts, but I sure would appreciate anyone who is able to point out some good open source publications that elaborate on the topic of the U.S. being 'crafted' for a specific role.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I only have a passing knowledge of asana yoga. However I've studied zazen in two different Japanese Buddhist traditions. I wouldn't necessarily say that a zazen posture is a relaxing position. If zazen is done correctly - at least as taught by a traditional Japanese schools - the posture has just enough musculature tension that if the practitioner isn't vigilant the position will slip. This is one of the tools used by zazen to ensure the mind is focused - in this case on posture - and not wandering all over the place.

Within zazen identifying the fact that the mind wanders if not vigilantly managed and understanding the nature of the wandering mind is the first realization / accomplishment of zazen. Most people are able to acknowledge their inability to control their mind after they sit zazen the first time.

The next accomplishment is the ability to control the mind from wandering and stay focused on a selected focal point (chakra within the body, an external image, etc.) for a length of time. This is much harder than it seems. Most people after some diligent zazen practice over a few weeks can keep focus for 30 seconds to a few minutes before the vigilance is lost and the effort starts again. There will be a bunch of other stuff that happens to a practitioner during this portion of development - the sense of weightlessness, floating or falling for instance, which is an experience of the formless realm within Buddhist parlance. Some people experience uncontrollable emotions for no reason such as crying.

The third accomplishment, and this is a major one, is ability to enter this focused state at will and maintain it for as long as one desires. This is very difficult and takes some time to master - at least within my experience and those people I'm familiar with who also practice zazen.

The state of being able to hold the minds focus at will is called samatha in Sanskrit (pronounced shamatta). In Chinese it is referred to as chi and Japanese as shi. In English it's been translated by Thomas Cleary (prolific translator of many Asian Buddhist texts) as Stopping [the mind] - which has been misunderstood, many taking the stopping to mean stopping the mind from thinking, one hasn't stopped the mind, just stopped it from wandering. Those that have translated Tibetan Buddhist texts into English have translated samatha as the calm abiding. This is probably the best English translation as that gives a good account of what it feels like when one gets very adept at this practice.

The calm abiding, or samatha is the entry into numerous other practices. Of interest here it is the entry into the practice of samadhi. There are other skills that need to be developed to gain a full samadhi experience, such as vipasina meditations.

Where does this all fit into Western esoteric studies? We'll I'm a beginner myself, but I definitely see correlations between the ability to control and focus the mind within the zazen practice and having the skill to control and focus the mind for magickal operations. Buddhist Tantric meditations share a very close affinity to the skills needed for visualizations conducting while one executes a magickal ritual.