College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

This podcast might interest some in this thread. Click the play button in the left sidebar. There's about 3 minutes or so of blah blah before the main topic of the podcast, which is about a half hour, and is the first of a 3 part series about Satan in Thelema. Enjoy. eechinthesilence.com/program-54-solstice-in-cancer-year-110

^
"hilarious" joke didn't go over too well!

Thanks for your input, everyone. Googled a bit on the dangers and it's interesting. I suppose I shouldn't dive right into it.

I was just curious precisely for the reason that it really works and I was sort of thinking of cutting right to the chase and asking some Enochian angels about some things to see what they'd say. As much as I appreciate my current practices, it is not as if I have conversations with Padmasambhava. But, conversation seems fairly common with Enochian entities.

To quote Dumb & Dumber 2 (which is even dumber than the first): "So you're tellin' me there's a chance!" http://fiveformerfatties.whatwelove.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/0145379_15731_MC_Tx360.jpg

Gotcha. Thanks!

Jim, do you think Enochian is very dangerous for a fellow flying solo with the best of intentions?

Ah, okay, so something about the communication process is not the literal word of the angel Nalvage, but filtered through the skryer's perceptions. This didn't occur to me. I thought they were just writing everything down rather verbatim similar to how Crowley received Liber Al.

Is this website referring to John Dee's diaries?
hermetic.com/browe-archive/enochian.htm

Almost scrolling down to the end of the page is the heading Enochian magick and the apocalypse and I won't quote the whole thing for the sake of brevity, but there is quite a lot of reference to Christ and God, in particularly by the angel Nalvage, I guess.

very cool... this makes me feel much better about Enochian. Have these angels ever given anyone their own name for their language, etc.?

@Sardonyx said

"
"Genesis 5:22Then Enoch walked with God three hundred years after he became the father of MethuSelah, and he had other sons and daughters. 23So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. "

The first account of someone being "taken up" by God in the Hebrew Scriptures...

People like to try to attribute stuff to him for that reason."

I just know there is discussion of Watchers and Watchtowers in the Bible (wiki mentions Daniel) and that these concepts are also in the Book of Enoch... and that it is called "Enochian" Magick. I recalled that Enochian magick was for the purposes of ushering in armageddon, which of course would tie it to the Bible, as well. Not sure where I read that. Perhaps in the work of Donald Tyson. Or maybe it was in the Book of Enoch. Or maybe it was the L. Ron Hubbard story. Apparently, I am the only one here, though, so I'll take your word for it since I have no practical experience in Enochian. (Someone should really change that name!)

Oh, I did not know that! I guess the name "Enochian" stems from someone's original misunderstanding, then. I suppose it was a misunderstanding of John Dee or his partner?

Jim, do you mean that just because people wrote about them in the Bible and the Book of Enoch, doesn't mean what these authors said was accurate?

I suppose if the Bibilcal authors wrote about Green Tara, she would be in the Bible, too, and my idea of her would be tainted. Hmmm...

I don't really have a problem with capital-T "Truth" anymore pertaining to anything relative; just thought it was a given that the Enochians had something to do with the Bible based on the reasons in this Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watcher_(angel)

Thanks for the response! That's really interesting. One of the Amazon reviewers compared it to mantrayana, too. I have been studying and practicing Tibetan buddhist stuff for the past 5 years or so. I'm not sure if you knew that or not. I am not familiar with the bardo ceremonies, though. I mean I don't know the mantras or practices or anything. What you said also reminds me of something I learned in a retreat; namely, that we make friends with fierce protectors because they "have our back," as you said. I recall the teacher also said there were all kinds of beings of enormous power who would "squash you like a bug" so it's better not to draw too much attention to yourself and this is why we start out by making friends with protectors, etc.

Have you read Lon's book? What do you think of the Christian/Bible aspects of Enochian? Is it basically like the real meaning of the Bible is nothing like people think anyway, so it doesn't really matter? I don't think most people use Enochian to bring about armageddon nor do I believe they are usually Christian.

I am rusty on the general thinking, so please forgive me.

If one wants to work with Enochian, but is not Christian, how does one reconcile / deal with the consideration of the Watchtowers, the fact that these are angels mentioned in the Bible and the fact that they're supposed purpose is to bring about armageddon?

Also, is it not so dangerous after all?
I recall people would always warn about Enochian dangers, even misfortune just from buying and reading a book. Now, it seems Lon's latest book has nothing but glowing reviews and suddenly Enochian is a purely positive experience for everyone... well, at least on this reviews page: www.amazon.com/Enochian-Vision-Magick-Introduction-Practical/dp/1578633826/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_

Does Enochian "play well" with other traditions? Are you expected to believe in God? Since Enochian is so powerful, I am tempted to experiment with it just so I can talk to these beings and ask them questions about the Universe, but seeing that I am an atheist who does not believe in armageddon and has a certain disdain for the Bible, I am curious how this would go over.

Thanks!

There's another big book about the tarot that I bought but never got around to reading and sold it already. Meditations on the Tarot by Anonymous (he calls himself "a friend" and I believe it was only published posthumously, as he intended)

It's an interesting book. The way it is written reminds me of certain tantras. It reminds me of Liber Al, too, but not as much.

I did BOTA's Seven Steps for quite a while. Didn't seem to much work for me. I tried this rather seriously for a few years and it was like when someone tells you not to think of a pink elephant. Wandering mind is bad? Alright then, I'll have plenty of that. Make it real and bright and experience it like it is really happening now? Okay, then, here is quite a lot of mental image flickering of the exact OPPOSITE of what you want to happen. If it really does work, then for me I would say this is a very slow method.

why don't we do it in the road?

I was hoping that was the answer. I'm looking forward to getting the new edition of that book, but a bit curious why people describe it like a whole different book. Seems like it would be the same book with more pages. It's weird that the author, who doesn't look much older than me, has written an authoritative account of AC's life. Maybe it's not that he was able to get so much more info than anyone else, but maybe it's just that nobody else bothered to do it right before.

That sounds embarrassing and ridiculous. Where did you read about this?

Just a quick note to end this. I thought perhaps I was being clear, but its becoming more obvious to me what is meant by the necessity of being "introduced" to the natural state and the subtlety of a hair tip. Dar, What I am referring to is not nihilistist (or eternalist), btw. Also, not really supposed to discuss this stuff openly and I have to stop now even though I already f'ed up. Thought I had said enough to know whether or not it jibes with Thelema but so far all I can see is that it's been misunderstood, so unfortunately I'm in the same position except now I may have actually learned to keep samaya... probably not, though. Blabbermouthery is something I consistently succeed at.

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@Orange Fizz said
"So... Jim is yam... made out of spinach?"

See my profile status."