College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

Lots of people I know or have talked to apply some sort of revelatory capability to hallucinogens. Personally, I have a bit of a hard time taking this sort of thing at face value - unless said person has been able to use some other means (like sober meditation) to verify the experience.

I had a conversation-with-myself experience once not unlike the nature of that the OP had, though it wasn't a positive one. It was more of a paranoid, multiple personalities situation where I was discussing with myself having to "hide it" (your guess as to what "it" was is as good as mine) from my my friend whose bed I was rolling around on going nuts while he was watching Princess Mononoke. During the whole escapade I was talking to myself and was able to "see" from both my point of view (as the person who was talking to myself, "seeing" from both selves points of view) while also seeing from a bird's eye view, so to speak. Certainly eye-opening as far as perspective is concerned, but I'm still skeptical as to the revelatory nature of such experiences.

Part of the reason I find such experiences to be positive and growth-oriented is because of the opportunity to reevaluate and redefine our perspective on pretty much anything.

Another, very positive experience I had involved - amongst other things - myself simply thinking about the fact I was thinking. This created a sort of infinite loop, if you will, in which I was thinking, then viewing myself (from behind my eyes, if you take my meaning) thinking, then viewing myself viewing myself thinking ad infinitum (lasted for a bit, but not sure how long for obvious reasons).

This second experience I was able to "verify" with meditation while using a mantra (over a year later, my system was completely clean). In the overall best meditative experience I've ever had I was able to slip into a state I had and have since glimpsed quite a bit - a sort of compression of perspective and time. During this meditation, which was basically just a good, relaxed time at first, I had a few moments of seeing my life as a single picture - metaphorically speaking - without the limits of time and my personal perspective.

In conclusion (hoping this post has been at least somewhat useful), I personally just worry about the possibility for random gunk that hallucinogens (with or without meditation at the time) bring about - no doubt anyone who has used them has experienced some "crazy shit" of some sort, though it sounds like the white/black differentiation in your experience is an excellent realization and I'm glad you shared it.

Looks to me like it's a fancy way of saying "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything," and depending on the preacher it may have been used like that by early Christians (i.e., as a corny saying nuns tell to Catholic school kids or some such thing).

As for Jim's initial response - hot or cold?...in the latter case something must be terribly wrong, lol.

It seems that produced Tarot decks, if you will, are all "good for this, but..." Is it common in the world of ceremonial magick for people to draw their own decks from scratch based on written instructions (e.g., Regardie's book)?

Based on what I'm hearing here I think I'm going to go for the BOTA deck for now (though I think I'll skip coloring them myself - I'm not very good at coloring inside the lines, lol). Thanks for all the advice guys.

Yeah, Kraig's specific recommendation against the Thoth Deck unless you're used to it (he says it's an amazing deck but definitely not for beginners) was the only reason I didn't mention it, I wanted to stick to the ones he suggested for use with the study system in his book for newbies like myself - I can worry about picking from amongst everything available to me once I'm a little better informed.

The only worries I have at the moment are what Kraig points out as supposed blinds or right-out errors in the different decks. Personally, I really like the Rider-Waite (probably because a friend of mine in high school's mother gave readings with it) but Kraig claims Waite didn't correctly match up the symbolism in the deck to keep from breaking his Golden Dawn vows. He said the Golden Dawn deck by Wang was the best as far as everything "being right," so to speak, but said it still wasn't spot-on due to errors on Wang's part. Apparently Regardie's book on the Golden Dawn gives enough information to "fix" perceptions of these decks given proper study - once again according to Kraig. How much of all that is true?

Thanks for all the help, guys.

1. What do people who are familiar with the following three Tarot decks think of them?

The Hermetic Tarot
The Golden Dawn Tarot
The B.O.T.A. Tarot

2. As an afterthought, I'd also appreciate any tips about any sort of ceremonial magick groups/community in Virginia (especially in the eastern portion of the state).

I'm from Eastern Virginia - near the Atlantic. I graduated recently (nine months ago) from college with a BA in philosophy and am trying to figure out how to spend the rest of my life (from a professional standpoint). Given the unavailability of "real" jobs I'm working a job that allows me lots of free time and I'm trying to put this to use as well as I may.

I've always been interested in religion(s) and have spent time learning about many, spending much time looking at Buddhism/Hinduism and at Catholic/Orthodox mystic spirituality.

I've always had an interest in the occult, though I've remained thoroughly in my armchair and have just recently decided to actually get up and brush the dust off my ass. I've done a bit of lurking here and the forum seems to be a great, fun place.

Oh, and anyone from Virginia or who has suggestions as far as groups and such things for someone getting into ceremonial magick in Virginia can feel free to help me with that at their leisure, lol.

After spending the past few years as an amateur armchair occultist I just recently got hold of a copy of Daniel Kraig's Modern Magick after hearing many good things about it. It suggests I get a Tarot deck and advises I choose from the Golden Dawn Tarot, the Hermetic Tarot, and the BOTA Tarot (It says you can get a few others, including the Rider-Waite, which I actually used to have a copy of, but I have never seen any of the three decks he suggests in person.

I've looked at reviews and pictures of the three decks and have determined my personal, uneducated preference, but was hoping for some possible insight from people who actually know what they're doing, lol.

Any assistance or insight would be greatly appreciated.