College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

@Frater LR said

"
Fear. Modesty. Prudence. There are many reasons. Why don't you let us finish getting to know your mind first?."

Because even I don't know it yet Maybe i can gain better understanding of myself by trying to understand the minds of others, beginning first with the most interesting of minds that of an occultist's.

It seems as if the world completely ignores the occultists. the media acknowledges nothing of occultism except for its symbolism. Either their in on it or they fear occultism spreading. I mean you probably dont want everyone thinking your like this guy: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeJVUbpF8Mg
do you?

@Froclown said

"Prophetic dreams generally are a case of you find what you are looking for, like the infamous law of fives and the 23 enigma.

which combined with the fact that dreams are often abstract and vague, and they don't hold well in memory such that the way we remember dream content tends to change more than our memories of waking life events. Thus, there is kind of a give and take, where dreamed material effects how we experience waking events in the future and the waking events changes how we remember the dream. Changing the memory is subjectively like changing a past event to make it look like a prophesy of the present of future happening. Since the brain activity is plastic and malleable on both sides, of this equation, their is no way for you as the subjective observer to know if your dreams are actually prophetic or not. It's just not possible to discern from the inside. You have to have an external record in a medium that does not change, like write down your dream soon after it happens. And you need an unbiased third party observer who is not tempted to interpret the future events in terms of the dream. Thus a blind observer situation would be optimal in this case. Which is in my understanding the purpose of one's superior in the A.'.A.'. to act as this voice of reason and objective observer, who carefully studies your diary and records with scientific scrutiny. "

I would of agreed with you, but i had kept a dream journal 3 weeks before the event. And just as was written in the journal, it manifested in reality. When those events did occur i noticed that there were so many variables that affected whether it manifested or not. For example how i felt that day where i went what i thought why i thought why i acted in that certain way. None of these things made sense during the dream but I understood them after it manifested. Many things that were beyond my knowledge were variables that lead to that event: if i stood there, such and such would happen if i done this such and such would happen all of these must of connected leading to the event that was prophecised. And this is why i believe in determinism, its like a big plan an unbreajable chain. And even though i had thought to myself "I wont ever let that happen" It came just as it said it did.

Thus proving synchronicity and the concept of a collective unconcious that every human brain access during sleep. But whether we can retain the information in that sleeping state is what i believe to be helpful.

I would of thought it was either the brain adapting memories or the subconcious creating the events. But the dreams were so intact and precise that it rules out such possibilities.

We do not choose what to dream, but we choose what we do in life. What has your magickal rituals bought you that can be presented as physical evidence to suggest outside forces or "hacks" existed.

@Frater LR said

"Alright. Just hold on a minute.

Let's take a good long look at yourself in the mirror before you start in with all the reasons other people believe dumb things. So far, you're the only person here claiming any abilities at all. You showed up at the door saying, "I have the ability to receive precognitive dreams. And you all are most likely crazy and stupid for believing in magick - please justify your belief." Before you go all empirically self-righteous, remember that your perceived precognition is the only claim on the table. You have no idea what the rest of us believe or practice.

You believe that you have repeatedly dreamed of future events. This has happened to you to the degree that you are no longer able to deny your own completely subjective experience, no matter how at odds this is with your own epistemology.

So how about you hop down off your soapbox while you're here asking us liars and fellow lunatics questions? You are as guilty of believing your own private truth as any of us. Do you think that accepting nothing but what you have personally experienced makes you unique among the lunatics of the world?"

Did I upset you? That wasn't my intention, I am merely sharing my thoughts. We clearly have different beliefs.

1. I do not believe I have any abilities. As I stated I have yet to ever experience astral projection. And I do believe everyone has precognitive dreams.

2. I dont define it as subjective. Since i have spoken to a number of people who have had similar experiences. And I'm not talking about deja vu. I shared these predictions with people before they have occured, and the events occurred exactly as planned. I believe that this is simply the effects of synchronicity and the human minds natural ability to draw knowledge from the collective unconcious.

Thus far I am the only person to have shared my experiences that had attracted me to this field of study. It seems as if everyone is scared to talk about their own experiences. Why is this? Humans by nature share knowledge and information. By telling no one that information not only do restrict human progress but also prevent anyone else the ability to tell you, your wrong. What's so bad about someone giving a different opinion or idea, or telling you your wrong. It wont change anything if your right. Silence is simply a way of letting lies run rampant and defending the ego from reality.

I placed my beleifs on the line. why is no one else prepared to?

Jim Eshelman: Are you saying crowley traded great magickal skill and knowledge for his earthly success and wealth?

@Chris Hanlon said

"Tried Tattwa cards by John Mumford?
Also, how long have you pursued a path? Like exercising the body, sometimes a certain amount of time and effort have to be invested before results.
I do not mean to suggest you go ahead and pursue something that isn't a good fit for you.
Chris Hanlon"

I have not tried them. Are they helpful? I'm looking into them now though.

How did you prove to yourself that what your doing is working? Can you tell me?

What do you mean by exercising the body? The paths(all paths) that i looked into offered rituals and meditation, as such they seem to be exactly like the "praying" that the monotheistic religions advocate, and thus do nothing. I have already proven to myself the efficacy of magick and prayer. And like most religions whenever there are no results or proof of what they preach they always return to the same argument of:
"You should do more practice"
"It was not done properly"
and the famous "Its up to him he is God, by not giving what you asked for he may of prevented a calamity": in conclusion all of these things go against my determinism.

Karl popper stated: If something cannot be falsified by proof and evidence then it cannot be called a theory.

In short if an argument is presented in a circular fasion were by it is self proving and unfalsifiable then it is not a scientific theory.

@skytoucher said

"
@nknownperson said
"Like you my past was shrouded and I drowned in books of "knowledge". I had read so many books and documents regarding the occult in my time."

Did you test any of this knowledge by actually working with it? Did you have anyone knowledgeable assisting you? I ask because much of what is published has blinds or is misleading. A little bit of truth applied correctly through action was all it took for me to get results. However I am often tempted to do anything but work and that temptation often includes reading more books."

Yes I tested it out in short nothing happened. It was the only way I could of proved it to myself that it is all lies. And that if anything were to happen it was simply the effects of self delusion and self hypnosis.

The only aspect of the occult that i occasionly think about and try to practice is that of astral projection. I am a determinist. I have yet to encounter a vivid experience of astral projection. But why I am so adamant in this endeavour is because of my past experiences with dreams. On many occasions i have awoken from a dream thinking to myself "I would never do that. Hmm but that dream felt real. Well i know my self i wouldnt do that EVER" couple of months later i am doing "IT". Whilst fullfilling this dream prophecy it occurs to me how accurate it is. In the dream i say to myself "ive dreamt this" and when the events happen they are so similar to the dream its amazing. Every thought I dreamt every event i noticed every feeling that passed my body is there in reality as if it materialized.

What i basically did was link these events with jung's synchronicity and my personal beliefs of determinism. Thus stating that the mind may pass the confines of time during sleep (collective unconcious or not? you decide).

That was the only aspect of magick that delivered any results. All rituals and theories are rubbish and most magicians I have met seemed clinically insane or with many mental instabilities. I dont believe in spirits or anything (I believe they may exist in the multiverse but they can never contact us). As of yet i have no right to say i have ever astrally projected. But these self fullfilling dream prophecies are occuring numerously. I am still trying to project and thus far with absolutely no success. This is the only aspect that draws me to read here and there in a couple of forums regarding occult its all because of astral projection. If it werent for such vivid and Absolutely flawless prophecy dreams i would of long debunked astral proection as simply lucid dreaming.

Enough about me though i wanted to get a general perspective on what compels the people of this forum to believe in all this mumbo jumbo. Ive noticed most occultists don't share a thing with anyone. But please do so I can calculate whether the community bases its beleifs on rational evidence or merely stipulation. Please share as much as possible. All the "occult" documents are no longer occult. All that remains occult are your subjective experiences so please feel free to share any info you think that may be helpful. Hopefully you can do this without encroaching upon some secrecy pact you have going

Like you my past was shrouded and I drowned in books of "knowledge". I had read so many books and documents regarding the occult in my time. Then one day i realized it, I thought to myself "these are all lies".

I had met many occultists in my time and have come to the realization that many lacked the faculty for logical and reasonable thought. In fact some seemed as if the more they delved into the occult the worse they had gotten(Or it could be that occultism by nature attracts the illogical (you decide)).

Obviously I cherish my past when looking back at it. Because my curiosity and non-ignorant ways blessed me with much knowledge regarding the human psyche. However i recently stumbled upon this forum after a long time of non occult related material. And thought to ask and question you to get the general idea of what makes you guys tick.

So I come here with two questions that may help me understand these occult societies.

1.If Aleister Crowley was such a great magician, why did he spend the majority of his life in such terrible conditions and financial situations. He died a terrible and lonely death. Surely he could of atleast manifested himself some money. Surely that should be possible, for an all great all powerful magician.

2.What did you do that finally convinced you of the effects of magick? What did you do to prove it and what were the results of your experiment?

Now i suppose some maybe a little upset at this post especially concerning this is a "occult" and "thelemite" forum. But please know that i only seek to understand these occult communities. And that I have tried my best to be as polite and openminded as possible whilst posing these questions to you.

Peace.