College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

Does it really matter? whether crowley that heard it from his own head, believing that it might have been coming from a manifesting spirit in the room or whether the manifesting spirit appeared in the room such that not only Crowley could hear but also the people in the next few rooms is totally irrelevant to the question at hand!

Why was the word beauteous used instead of beautiful. in early 20th C was it popular? Does it convey a hidden meaning? Crowley was well known for hiding occult secrets in plain sight.

While I cannot comment on what freemasonry is like in India. In the UK in London and down south in portsmouth in the UK and also lon milo duquette comments Freemasonry is predominantly a group of christians with little understanding of their symbolic heritage. While in the UK you are free to be Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or whatever the only requirement is that you believe in a grand architect (a creating deity) and you believe in a moral code. The process involves making good men into better men through charity work and beyond that there is little spiritual improvement except in small groups like SRIA which is basically a rosicrucian movement. In the UK a person interested in joining SRIA must be a Trinitarian Christian (or at least claim to be) and they must be a Master Mason which usually takes over a year in a masonic lodge in the UK. I don't suppose that any of this is necessarily the case in India. But Lon Milo Duquette find that he is regarded by his fellow mason's as being too liberal in his politics and his interest seem too occult to them.

The AA on the other hand is a new Aeon organisation and in most lineages very little is taught person to person instead an individual is expected to study on their own through the grades of the golden dawn 0=0 to 4=7 before a person is even considered for admission to the AA. Most of this takes place through self study (under the supervision of someone in the AA) which is ALOT of work and ALOT of self control. They have examinations throughout the process in some lineages so that people unable to study cannot get in or ascend. There are a few initiations during this process but I've not yet heard of a group that does initiations at every grade.

Most of the AA lineages are in Europe and North America while the OTO is spread a little further there isn't a grand master in India right now but there was some discussion as to whether it could be set up. However as India is a large country it would not necessarily be near by you. I think if you spoke to a number of lineages of the AA and sent them signed forms with the student / probationer / neophyte oath then might consider allowing you to be initiated if you fly over for the initiations and consider relocating closer to other members of the AA in 5-7 years time when you reach the end of 4=7, they require this type of life devotion (but I must admit I've met members in the AA that don't appear show it).

I've met some people that guide themselves through an understanding of tantra and ceremonial magick which exhibit more comfort, confidence, knowledge and ability than those who study in groups but such people often study under yogis and reiki masters (real masters of japanese reiki not this western system where a person just calls themselves a master after three years of study) and are incredibly good at academic research, yoga and show a lot of self control. It's worth mentioning that these diamonds in the rough are few and far between.

Also crowley was a lingual genius in the english language and if he or some aspect of his mind or some goddess using the lingual faculties of his mind chose beauteous there would have been a reason for it.

Nuit can't speak English. She is partially incarnate in tiphereth and wholely incarnate in the veils, there are no words in the veils because existence is negative and they don't necessarily speak English in the mental plane and emanation of the deity known as tiphereth.

nuit says "I am nuit and my numbers are 6 and 50, divide; add; multiply; understand!"
Then saith the prophet and slave of the beauteous one (a.k.a CROWLEY a slave to his lusts for his wife and the beauty of the goddess nuit radiant within her, a prophet for the goddess nuit reporting the words that left her mouth).

As it is not something Crowley claims that nuit is saying necessarily I assumed it was written by him.

I'm just curious if any has supposed a reason why crowley prefers the term beauteous to beautiful in the book of the law.

thus saith the prophet and slave of the beauteous one .... day 1 verse 26.

Wow I usually use Stephen Skinner's complete magician's tables so I never opened 777. now I see it has like all the hebrew words by number in the back!

As far as 6 and 50 what about ha' 'aTem - "a window is sealed"

Ok so I've fiddled with Hebrew and got stuck a couple of times. so I tried a few websites for suggestions to hebrew words as certain numbers but they still didn't help me. What on earth does crowley mean by the following:

I am nuit and my word is 6 and 50.

divide, add, multiply, understand.

either way you do it the division results in a non integer not sure how I would then convert to hebrew. don't know enough Greek to know what's a word and what's not.

I add them for 56 - Ani "I" or Achamah "food"

I multiply for 300 shin thus spirit couldn't figure out any words and checked online to find apparently there are none of notable consequence. I could add some suffixes to other words to get a word but it's not pure does it need to be.

understand - well in this department I'm totally stuck.

Every number is infinite they're all the same? so this is a joke of no significance?

further verse 46. the jews call it 61 I call it 8, 80, 400, 18

47 but they have half and unite by art so all disappear?

now 61 everyone should know is Adoni in hebrew and the jews call it makes sense. if they have half then the complete could be 122 an onion, cross or if you take tsel to be shadow then by-shadow.

or is this simply the idea of someone being unquantifiably "half right".

8 is love in hebrew and in greek it's "the" or the modern word "or"

80 got no idea other than pe = mars = house of god

400 = tav = universe = saturn / earth

18 - no idea

Are any of my numbers the same as what most thelemites would consider? Is this something a thelemite looks in to or is that considered pointless as all numbers are infinite and the same?

Emotions what are they?

I think that love and hate are different to what the average person experiences. Love causes me to form attachments. This bonds get in the way of my mind trying to concentrate during ritual and often need to be alleviated before a person can pass in through the void. So unless you're hoping to become a left hand rather instead of a babe of the abyss better get ready to alleviate your attachments.

But there is a kind of spiritual love that can exist without causing attachment simply joy.

On the other hand attachments that I've had which have caused me pain have cause such a shift in emotions that i was able to reach an altered state and commune with a deep side of myself which i didn't realise I could. Becuase of the caring nature of this spirit and the fact that it appeared as an "attractive" version of myself, I still wonder if it could have been my HGA.

My stuff is mostly solitary at the moment.

@Aegis said

"You win."

No zie surrendered when I wanted to fight to the death!!!!

@Myself said

"
What part of love everything with all that you are is a part of thelema? Crowley seemed anti the Christian way of life. I mean love and hate are irrelevant to spiritual progress as far as I see.
In my buddhist way of looking at things love for the things of this samsara world is what keeps us here. We choose to try again to achieve what we're attached to.
"

I was hoping someone would at least say love is the whole of the law in response to this comment!!!!

The book of the law to me is strange my feelings are contradictory. It's nonsensical rambling speak volumes. While I hear a passage which does not make sense or uses highly specific terms, my mind is lulled to a state of listening to poetry or listening to a powerful silence within its covers.

It's a work of poetry but it has a formidable power to me.

Ok so I understand that the HOGD is completely different from the other two but what are the other two about. I inquired as to joining the OTO and found out you're going to spend at least £450 to get in to the inner order (payment p.a. and initiation fee) soooo you can uderstand why I wasn't so sure). Spend an extra year studying the final grade and your cost shoot up £100.

And I knew so little about what happened in the OTO that I decided not to continue at that time. Unless I was to find out that I was getting the real deal. In which case £450 is nothing but one month's drinking money (for someone who imbibes the forbidden nectar known as alcohol).

So Communication and Communion (I assume your K/C was something similar) with the holy guardian angel is a major goal in my life. (While my interests in many traditions and involvemnet in many groups has me looking and hundreds of names for it and methods for invoking higherself, augoeides, HGA, body of light, inner buddha nature, shiva - the one that is most suited to me is the bornless ritual by Crowley. My work through the golden dawn is empty by comparison. It lacks that woof of energy which entoning crowley's words (in liber Samekh for any one on the board who doesn't know) provides.

But that's AA what's OTO doing. I already have a few emails between me and the secretary of the OTO which I can refer to but they say very little about stuff.

@Aegis said

"You've spent a lot of words misunderstanding my use of sarcasm. Don't worry. I don't mind. "

I think I understood perfectly what you were trying to say. Regarding Crowley he may have seemed mad but you take someone's actions out of context you're always going to think they're mad. Also when speaking of someone who fancies themselves, a poet, it's never a good idea to take everything they say literally. (otherwise the neighbours will be knocking on your dog asking if you saw who killed the dog).

I don't like reading wishy washy nonsensical words. I'm not autistic but I find it off putting when a person spends ages saying something in such ambiguous words as experience, universe and will without first clarifying what they mean. I understood your use of the word will as I'm a bit of a thelemite. But imagine for a sec someone should show up on a pagan forum and start talking about it's part of my way. Is this a way that can change? IS this a custom? Is this the person's spiritual belief often called their path? Or is it their tao / will? What's the point in posting if you're not saying anything? So I often ask people to rephrase if its sounding wishy washy or ambiguous. If everyone who was in a metempsychotic system spoke the same language we would not have so many different beliefs/religions/systems.

@Aegis said

"But.... I don't believe those things. Others do. That's basically what I get told.
"

I understand that but upon evidence their view can be changed.

@Aegis said

"
It's like when Christians talk about the crazy stuff other religions believe - how crazy it is - they themselves all along asking everyone in the world to believe in virgin birth or burn eternally in hell.
"

Actually London where I live is very atheist so Christians have the same problem as Magickal users but why do we need to talk about faith outside of a circle? (I'm not a fan of evangelism i don't see the point if people are drawn to these things let them go but otherwise i don't talk about religious stuff unless I'm asked.)

@Aegis said

"
My point is that it sounds all secure and stuff to be able to look down from a high position on people who struggle more than you. But I wasn't crazy when I started, and all I determined to do was to love everything with all that I am.
"

What part of love everything with all that you are is a part of thelema? Crowley seemed anti the Christian way of life. I mean love and hate are irrelevant to spiritual progress as far as I see.
In my buddhist way of looking at things love for the things of this samsara world is what keeps us here. We choose to try again to achieve what we're attached to.

@aegis said

"
The rest was unexpected. So, I'm just poking the new adamant guy with a stick to see how rigid his views are. Because it really is quite complex."

Please put your stick down. In this country that's called rape.

@Aegis said

"
"Prophet of the New Aeon." Talk about megalomania, delusions of grandeur
"

It is really a matter of perspective Crowley spoke in riddles and often meant things which are different to what you believe he said. a popular example is the "I sacrifice 100 children a year"

You say that he's deluded in his claim to be the prophet of the new Aeon. Well most new agers, wiccans and occultists know who he is and don't realize that Gardiner was in the OTO and Crowley took him up a degree or two as an initiator. Without Gardiner being in the place he was would we have Gardinerian wicca today? Alexandrian Wicca?

If Crowley didn't bring so much attention to Golden Dawn and Thelema magick would new agers use middle pillar to increase their auras and would the Golden Dawn, the OTO and the AA be here today?

maybe he was surrounded by believers and thought their opinion of him was the world's opinion but i would say as far as prophets go. he might not a Mohammad but he's pretty well know and its still early days yet. I'm not saying he's a prophet but i don't think we can afford to deny him that title until all the votes are in.

@Aegis said

"...have you read his poetry....! Talk about a sex-addict and a severe neurotic who attempted to blend spirituality and sexuality
"

Are you saying that sexuality and spirituality are not meant to be blended? What church do you go to because I think the vicar loved it when i kept saying "jesus" and he was banging me!

I'd like to tell you about a religion called tantra. with practices such as chakrapuja which often include sexual rites amongst other things such as drinking potions out of skulls.

@Aegis said

"

and went insane...!
"

Are you telling me there was a change in Crowleys sanity

@Aegis said

"
Do you understand that he actually claimed to have conquered the whole Universe in his own lifetime by the simply force of his own human will? The balls on this guy... How laughable...
"

Is the universe simply not another word for the way it is. OR potentially fate. Surely any ritual that appears to change reality has conquered the whole universe. Changing it. Perhaps he meant something else. Perhaps he meant the universe within. Maybe this was a term that was used in a specific way within his group that we no longer understand.

@Aegis said

"
And you want to follow this guy's methods...????

AHAHHAHAHAHAH....

Yeah, you're sane.

[It really is all a matter of perspective and culture.]
"

Actually its a matter of being able to fit in to a culture and get on with daily life. Being able to provide for yourself without being dangerous to other people. As a Law student who is able to maintain his degree, look after a family member who is 94, keep two jobs and still do well at all those things. I think I'm pretty stable, rounded and yes you're right I'm "sane".

@Aegis said

"I guess it's not fair to only be sarcastic.
"

You can be sarcastic all you want you're just going to get it back. Sort of like the western idea of karma. In fact your sarcasm was what made this message sooo long. Besides that fact I'm replying to two messages of yours.

@Aegis said

"
The "Aeon" is here. Human's are evolving - opening to new levels of consciousness.
"

How do you measure consciousness? because otherwise this statement has no meaning.

@Aegis said

"
At first, this will be seen as madness by those who do not understand it.
"

At first what exactly will be seen as madness?

@Aegis said

"
I, for one, feel something of the urge to throw a lifeline to those strong enough to save themselves if someone would just for a moment accept that something of their experience is real and part of a process they need to complete.
"

What are you calling 'a lifeline'? Magick?
To those strong enough to save themselves from what? their mental illness such as manic depression?
What experience are you referring to? experience of magickal realities, physical reality, duality becoming whole?

Be more specific otherwise you will not be able to communicate.

@Aegis said

"
I realize that Liber Legis warns against turning aside from Will to the weak, but if it has anything to do with my Will, then Will desires for humanity to be guided into its wholeness and for the waking potential of those initially mislabelled "mad" and "weak" to be fully realized. That's not turning aside from Will for me. There is simply nothing else as challenging or interesting.
"

The material is there to guide people just look at sacred texts. Why should you challenge yourself to change OTHER people. Hate of that is one of the reasons I left the Christian church. I believe I mentioned the other reason earlier in this post. (snigger)

@Aegis said

"
That's my general take on the topic, but, yeah, I'd agree about serious magical workings
"

the only line you needed to write.

I reinserted a new introduction.

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

Ok so I take magick quite seriously I came to it from a perspective of something to do with the psychic energy / astral work that I was learning about. Now it more a major goal in my life along side career and better health. (I should put relationship but I think I've given up on that for a while. Time to enjoy singleness until my career is sorted (just finishing bachelors this year then going to try and get a job as a most-hated-member-of-society).

I've been practicing for a few years and I'm involved in one group in london (which seems to do little more than talk about each others problems). I then got involved in another group in Reading (and slowly dropped out of the group in London (though technically I'm a council member in London)) and this group in Reading yet wasn't very practical. I've worked my magick and got some of them that want to meet up and work on practical stuff to do so. score!

but still the rituals are usually done half drunk and people are there for a laugh, not for some serious ritual work. I'm skeptical, relaxed and I want to have a laugh as much as the next person but I don't think mid-ritual in the centre of the circle is the best place for it. For me that's a time to focus on the ritual work. Otherwise what's the point in crowley writing the first few chapters of Magick?

Is going for initiation in to a group like the HOGD, the AA or the OTO a bad idea for someone like me. Will they be too serious or will they be too relaxed for what I want? Are they practical? Other than initiation and gnostic mass do they do anything 'magickal' together?

I'm based in UK. What is there around London and west of London? If I was to get initiated how would I go about it for the AA or the OTO? (I'm already going to an Anticum for the Golden Dawn)

I'm not sure I want people will mental health issues involved in magick. There are two main reason for this. I'm sorry if this offends people who feel magick should not be elitist.

FIRST REASON MAGICK SHOULD BE FOR THOSE OF SOUND MIND

Magick frequently involves interaction with ontological (entity filled) worlds which most people do not witness. The regular shifting of consciousness to these places where stuff may be going on is going to put a stain on the the body/mind and shift a mind to a state that may appear slightly mad. If a person is already having mental issues these combining these with further seemingly insane activities could make a person unemployable and as such, unable to look after themselves.

SECOND REASON MAGICK SHOULD BE EXCLUSIVELY FOR THOSE OF SOUND MIND

I do magick. I'm completely sane. I find it hard to explain to people that I get experiences from magick that make me trust in those practices enough to continue to practice them. I find it hard to explain that I believe the universe and its deities should be explored as an astronaut should explore the skies . With expectations yet a scientific method.

I think that my motivations are laudable. However when I want to explain to someone that I practice the Magick of the O.T.O, the A.A. and the Golden Dawn, the last thing I want them to think is "I remember a person with some serious psychological problems who was doing that kind of stuff too."
I already have issues with a certain someone who thinks of me as a wiccan worshiping the tooth fairy and Santa Clause by their olde fashion names.

There is a huge magickal community and its seriously getting bigger represent us well otherwise as soon as someone finds out information about someones magickal path they won't respect them as much or give them the same opportunities in life and then we really will see an elitist society and we certainly won't be the elite.

hmmm I think one of my other posts disappeared do thing get removed if there's no activity on it for a while? Or was something inappropriate about it?

I thought my name which was the same before. Would give it away.

why did i get deleted?

lets try that again shall we.

Hey all

I'm a practising magician currently working on the AA, OTO and Golden Dawn syllabus so would love people to talk to and practice with . Also wouldn't mind being initiated in to an organisation of serious practicing magicians.

My other interests include tantra, sources that influence GD such as the work of greek philosophers on elements, philosophy, modern and ancient languages and chaos magick / neoshamanism.

grey.