Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?
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I have no opinion about whether Jim said that.
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Yeah in one of these posts he said torturing them is too old aeon and that's why they appear p1ssed of at us sometimes...no wonder. They've been getting abused and threatened by wizards for decades/centuries....but now as we move out of that Piscean age we can have amore enlightened approach.
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Do you mean this thread?
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"What's your opinion?"
I don't have extensive experience with the goetia, I have some good experiences and some bad experiences. My bad experiences came about through my own naivete, disrespect for the system, and my own fear. My good experiences came about when I was more experienced in general and I treated the spirits as spirits- individuals, rather than mere portions of the human mind. (I don't assert they are one or the other, just that for me they seemed to be more receptive when treated as objective individuals.)
In my opinion, any magician who has to scream demands and curses, threaten and enslave any being is a poor magician. Lon DuQuette asserts in his books, like most magicians, that goetia were made to serve and should be forced to do so because that is the natural order of things. A lot of white people believed that about black people too, some still do.
Spirits are good at serving, some of the goetic spirits are keen to serve and will make deals with the magician. I don't see the harm of deals so long as it doesn't hurt or hinder either party. Why would you strive to have a bad business relationship when you can have a beneficial relationship which is mutual?
On the post linked above, Jim likens the goetia to an abused child, I think that can be a good analogy, however, how would you treat an abused child who had behavioural issues. You certainly wouldn't give them slap, threaten to exterminate them, and shout abuse at them. You would be firm, calm, completely in control, but fair.
"If you want to watch television, you will behave and clean your room first, if not, no TV."
"If you gain me the ability to make money, I will leave an offering/tell people about your powers/ carve your sigil into a metal so it is permanant." - They really don't ask for much when they know you are not to be walked all over.
I don't know if you have ever dealt with a naughty child, but they tend to laugh in the faces of adults who scream and shout- because as always "Intolerance is evidence of impotence."
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I think that the idea of threatening and insulting spirits to get results is a very Christian and old aeon idea. I prefer too treat them as persons who deserve some respect. However, I don't let them past the porch into my home without getting to know them. I don't see anything wrong with being polite and yet firm with good boundaries. Kind of like we would be with anyone on this plane.
93 93/93
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@Magistar418 said
"I think that the idea of threatening and insulting spirits to get results is a very Christian and old aeon idea. I prefer too treat them as persons who deserve some respect. However, I don't let them past the porch into my home without getting to know them. I don't see anything wrong with being polite and yet firm with good boundaries. Kind of like we would be with anyone on this plane.
93 93/93"
That sounds like a solid approach to me. The not letting them "past the porch" is but the standard of common courtesy, after all!
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If you're playing with the Goetia and you don't recognize that they're playing a power game with you, you lost it already.
Now they're playing with you.
Yes, yell at them. Command them. "Too old aeon?"
Look under your chairs - you get a demon, you get a demon, you all get a demon!
Participation Demons available upon request!!!
pfffft.
I think there has been a grave misunderstanding.
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"Therefore fear not the Spirits, but be firm and courteous with them; for thou hast no right to despise or revile them; and this too may lead thee astray. Command and banish them, curse them by the Great Names if need be; but neither mock nor revile them, for so assuredly wilt thou be lead into error." —Liber Librae
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@zeph said
""Therefore fear not the Spirits, but be firm and courteous with them; for thou hast no right to despise or revile them; and this too may lead thee astray. Command and banish them, curse them by the Great Names if need be; but neither mock nor revile them, for so assuredly wilt thou be lead into error." —Liber Librae"
Neither despise, mock, nor revile. Be firm, and if need be, curse them by the command of the highest.
Revile means to be abusive. Commanding is not about being abusive, nor is yelling above the roar. But remember, they are not the higher power - you are. And if you want to be a milksop, make bargains with them, allow them to flatter you and have their way on your faces; be informed, you've missed the mark of the purpose of the evocation in the first place - to bring them to your light, to your discipline, to your path toward holiness.
They aren't here to teach you to believe you already know everything, they are here, in your triangle of art, to teach you what and how to learn. Not as your teachers, but as your howlings, your mockings, your tormentings. Fix them. Heal them. Yes, all the good things for them, but alas, as if they were your own limbs suffering the agonies of infection. Bathe them in the sting of antiseptic or suffer the consequences.
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Cool post, zeph.
Though, in all seriousness, we should listen to Takamba... -
Goetia spirits are neither evil monsters just out to get you, nor wish vending machines. How would you like if if someone came up to you who you didn't even know, just demanded some arbitrary favor out of you, and threatened you if you didn't preform it?
You have to have a relationship with healthy boundaries, as in actually listen to the other party, be it goetia spirit or fellow human being (that they often send to fulfill requests) This of course does not mean that you should bow down to them or give into their every whim either.
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Lon Milo Duquette is reading a chapter from his book My Life With the Spirits everyday at 10AM Pacific on Facebook.
The "Evocation of Orobas" is Chapter 15.
He's currently on Chapter 18, "Israel Regardie and the Exorcism of Garkon."
You can go back and listen to any chapter you miss.
I read the book a long time ago. I forgot how interesting it was.
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Assuming they are "beings":
Maybe, that is how they choose to communicate ?
Howls, yells, broken dinner plates...
-IF_, the submissive WANTS to be spanked,
is it a punishment or an instance of dominance ?
Over the one claiming to have POWER
