Questioning Resh
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As many people as probably play baseball are happy with their life's work. These aren't exactly causal.
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Sure, why not?
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The above answers should have answered this. People have accomplished their True Wills, I'm confident, without ever even heard of Thelema or The Great Work. It is not everyone's Will to be a magician or a priest.
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To put your self in perspective, to align with others of us who are putting our selves in perspective, to feel the current of energies from these warehouses of energy that this ritual is about. As a part of changing or reaffirming the paradigm of one's being as eternal (I can't explain how, it's just part of the collection of practices).
Jim will most likely speak more eloquently and completely.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
"1) Do the people performing Liber Resh eventually come to know and do their True Will in this lifetime?
"Likely, yes.
"2) Isn't it true that some of the people who perform Resh will never attain in this, no matter how many times they perform the ritual?"
Yes.
"3) Is it possible for someone to attain to their True Will, without ever having performed Liber Resh in their life?"
Yes.
"4) Why practice Liber Resh at all?"
As a constant reminder of the Great Work, thus fostering that aspiration; to attune the counsciousness to the Sun; to actually seek contact with the H.G.A.; to increase discipline by constant, long-term practice; &c.
"Is there some other thing you could do in your daily lives to obtain the same effect of this ritual, or is the ritual itself absolutely necessary to getting the desired results? Also, please describe the results if you can."
The same effect? No. A similar, desirable and perhaps even better effect? Possibly, but the same can be said about almost any of our practices. Resh is standard and does fine. So, it works. For a rough ideia of my results, see previous question.
Love is the law, love under will.
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@Frater Potater said
"1) Do the people performing Liber Resh eventually come to know and do their True Will in this lifetime?"
I don't know that the two are related. The simple answer is "yes" because people I know who hae come to know and to their True Wills have tended to pratice Liber Resh; but I'd be loathe to imply a direct causation, if that's what you are asking.
"2) Isn't it true that some of the people who perform Resh will never attain in this, no matter how many times they perform the ritual?"
Sure. As I said, I don't know that there is any relationship between the two.
"3) Is it possible for someone to attain to their True Will, without ever having performed Liber Resh in their life?"
Of course. As I said, I don't know that there is any relationship between the two.
"4) Why practice Liber Resh at all?"
It has three main virtues:
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It is a drill in concentration, mindfulness, and discipline.
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It aligns you with the Sun (by placing concentration on it at the four times or the day that the Sun is at maximum astrological efficacy), thereby stimulating and amplifying your own solar nature.
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It links you ever more tightly with the specific religious ("re-connection") aspect of Thelemic cult.
[qiote]And as a follow up question to those who do practice Resh: Is there some other thing you could do in your daily lives to obtain the same effect of this ritual, or is the ritual itself absolutely necessary to getting the desired results?"
I can't offhand think of something else that would actualize #2 above. It would be easy to think of many things that would actualize #1 above, and a few other things that would actualize #3.
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@Frater Potater said
"I think I meant to say that it is generally assumed by many thelemites, that performing Liber Resh is somehow vital to attaining the True Will."
The word "many" is vague. To you mean a majority? Everyone you know? Three statements on the Web?
It would be interesting to know where this fabrication came from. It certainly isn't from Crowley, and I think maybe I've never heard it before today (after 33 years of deep immersion in this subject and its culture).
"Crowley seemed to think it was important enough to make a requirement."
Yes, but not for that purpose. For a different purpose. (See prior post.)
"In this case, what makes Thelema worth while?"
Wow, that's a whole 'nuther thread.
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I think that Liber Resh is important- however many other factors need to be included to achieve adeptship.
May I suggest that the LBR is of more assistance to achieving union with your higher self. This is what occurs to me over and over again- over the years. The good thing about Liber Resh is that you 'draw down the light' an important daily practice.
No single act will guarantee enlightenment. However, other factors will definitely be
Making a vow never to stop till you achieve this end. never ever give up
Constantly invoking
Never forgetting your goal and reminding yourself you have not achieved it.
Introspection and circumspection- working with your self- honestly. Squaring up with yourself. Leveling with yourself. coming to grips with yourself.In my case, what really did it was getting tired of seeking. I can remember the feeling of exhaustion just prior to the experience. You have to work very hard- perhaps for a long time.
Q
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@Frater Potater said
"In the case of #2, is there something inherent about the words and images used in Resh that link you to the sun? Or could you write your own kind of prayer or symbolism into it, which you then perform at the astrological Resh times?"
Some other solar adoration etc. would serve the same purpose. (I lumped Resh in more generically than you may have meant it: I was remarking here on solar adorations per se.)
"Or does it have to be the egyptian deities and prayers that Crowley published?"
Of course not. How silly. The only reason for using that specific form is to specifically link to Thelemic cult through language abd images from Liber Legis.
"I think the biggest internal resistance to performing this practice comes from the fact that I don't feel any connection to the concepts or deities involved. The poetry and imagery just doesn't speak to me, to ignite my solar body in the way that you are saying. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong all these years?"
Oh, I don't think I've ever been taken by the language of it at all. I certainly wouldn't use it just as an inspiring poem. It's a formula to deliver. The language is almost silly. To me it's never been about the words in the formula, but about what happens when I place attention in the right places at the right times.
What I just wrote concerns the published text of Resh specifically. It doesn't include the adoration one is to append to it, which moves me deeply. I rarely utter the words "Unity, uttermost showed!" withoutbeing snapped back to that exact moment I first saw the utter, complete UNITY of everything within the range of my perceptions, everything in my world. After more than three decades and loads of other experiences, that one phrase still snaps me back to that one moment. And the successive paragraphs then simply ground the experience layer by layer, as if a Middle Pillar ritual drawing down, one world per verse, until the last three lines anchor it;
Returning to the language of Resh itself - the most important words to me personally are those that characterizae each of the expressions of the Sun. At dawn, I get again that the HGA arising is strength. At noon, I get the Angel's beauty. At sunset, I re-experience the joy, and and midnight the silence. Strength, beauty, joy, and silence are pretty frickin' amazing adjectives for "That which is beyond" the image, which you are uniting with the god-image to adore.
"As for #3, linking to the thelemic cult... I am afraid I may need you to elaborate what you mean. You mean the feelings of holiness, and sanctity?"
I mean binding your inner reality to the specific symbols and language of a distinctive symnbol - buying into the distinctive shared elements of a specific religion so that you contribute to and receive from the egregore of the system. This is the inner power of a religious system, which allows far deeper experience than an individual mind can produce under the best of conditions.
The elements that make up such a system are usually the most arbitrary. That is, in themselves, they don't matter, they could be selected in any of a thousand different ways. But the fact that they are shared and used identically by hundreds or thousands of people gies them independent life - something far greater than the sum of its components, something directly linking into inner realities. Those who ignore the specifically religious elements of Thelema are just picking bits and pieces of technique: they've kept themselves separate from the great pool of wisdom.
"You often speak of the human soul needing to indulge in a type of religious pageantry... or immersing it in symbolism that invokes higher dimensional feelings... maybe this is what you are alluding to?"
Yes. See above.
But it's not just pageantry. (I never said that, so far as I can recall.) That's just a technique. I've spoken of a deep religious need in people - a need that most find is only satisfied when humbled before a spiritual something inconceivably vaster than anything they have ever considered "themselves," and to share this in the context of others who participate in the same cult - the same symbols, ideas, and means. This remains the most universally moving type of human experience (other than the actuality of birth and death, before which it is utterly abased).
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@Frater Potater said
"I don't know if it came from anywhere. A lot of people seem to pick this basic practice up with their introduction into Thelemic ritual. Crowley suggests a handful of practices to the beginner, and we know that the goal is to lead us toward a knowledge of our will.[/quopte]
I think it's that last part that you made up. There are all sorts of things that are done for some purpose other than to know your True Will. (It would be easier to say that this practice contributes directly, in many people, to the eventual Knowledge & Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel than to say it contributes directly to knowing and doing your True Will.)@Jim Eshelman said
"I never once saw those virtues which you wrote, clearly laid out in Crowley's writing."
No, I didn't say they came from him. (That isn't what you askec for, right?) He did list elements of my #1: In the A.'.A.'. syllabus he wrote that Resh has "the object of composing the mind to meditation and of regularizing the practices."
"Also, Crowley was relentless in what he expected from his students. I don't know how many of the initiations or practices he put others through, which he personally undertook himself. He always took his own "enlightened" experiences as proof enough of his grade"
"Not true. He worked rigorously, with deep discipine and devotion. The core of the A.'.A.'. curriculum is what he and Jones discerned had been of most value in their own attainment. As for Resh, Grady reported in the last couple of years of Crowley's life seeing him do the adoration in the course of his day. That particular adoration was personally very important to him.
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@Frater Potater said
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- I'm afraid i don't understand what your saying. You mean play baseball for a living? I'm sure you'd be pretty happy with your life to be doing that... to make what you enjoy doing your life's work seems to me the definition of knowing and doing TW... (and to be getting paid millions
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I think I meant to say that it is generally assumed by many thelemites, that performing Liber Resh is somehow vital to attaining the True Will. Your answers indicate that it is not at all. If it helps some of the people to obtain it some of the time, than great. Crowley seemed to think it was important enough to make a requirement.
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Do you think that "Karma" and other things are tied to the issue? (but maybe that's a whole different thread)
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In this case, what makes Thelema worth while? Are you even sure if being a priest or magician is necessary to doing your will? Because you seem to suggest that this may be the entirety of your will, and not merely a means to an end... and besides, isn't any willed action magic? So people who have never heard of magic, are acting as magicians all the time!
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It sounds like there are a variety of ways to accomplish this. Without a proper understanding of what we are doing by performing these rituals, I believe that it is possible that their positive effects can be negated. That no energy is to be had from it eventually, if we don't understand what is going on.
And while I always appreciate Jim's input, these questions were not necessarily directed towards him. More or less for the whole community. We all perform this ritual, so let's discuss it."
Sorry I thought it was clear but it wasn't. Playing baseball and becoming a Senator of the U.S. aren't related. Some Senators appear to me to have been doing their True Wills. I'm suspect of anyone who states that only a "bonafide Thelemite" can accomplish their True Wills in this life time. I hope this reply addresses all your questions regarding my point of view on your original question.
- I'm afraid i don't understand what your saying. You mean play baseball for a living? I'm sure you'd be pretty happy with your life to be doing that... to make what you enjoy doing your life's work seems to me the definition of knowing and doing TW... (and to be getting paid millions
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I have never done Resh.
I don't think I have even read the rite.After reading this whole thread, and seeing Mr. Eshelmans words Strength, Beauty, Joy and Silence and the concept of alignment with the sun, I know that pretty much on a daily basis since my initial dedication I have instinctively created my own ways of honoring, aligning, and being with my natural surroundings and witnessing those qualities around me.
I think though that I am hard wired much differently then most and have a different degree of spiritual inclination naturally. Four planets in Scorpio maybe...
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@Frater Potater said
"How you ever been in favor of your students just performing the adoration from the stele, and not doing the rest of the ritual? Are the same results achieved, etc?"
I don't believe the same results are achieved. - It's certainly possible, of course (especially after a time of long habituation and building inner channels), that some people could find that this was effective enough. For me, when I tried exactly that approach, it just seemed to be missing too much. (Not enough connection to the Sun per se, nor to the specific traits of the quarters. It was a recurring practice, but not one anchoring me specifically to the time of day.)
"I believe that the system and symbolism presented in Thelema, to be drastically different from any other religion which the world has yet known. I think it's inherent nature is to bring us to a completely new and revolutionary conception of the what the word "religion" has meant to us up until now."
Possibly you mean, "what it has meant for the last couple of thousand years." Or (with what you have told me of your history), I can especially understand that you mean "what religion has meant to me in the past." People with strong conventional religious upbringings usually have to break away from the whole thing for a while before they can discover religion on their own terms.
But (politics and social engineering aside), religion has always meant the same as yoga. The first literally means "reconnecting," and the second means "union."
"It seems like the nature of this aeon is that we each have our own personal mystery to unfold."
That's always been the actuality, though not always the point of focus. However, note that unfolding your own mystery doesn't mean not participating in collecive mystery. The big blind of many in Thelema today is focussing on the individual at the cost of the collective. That individuality aspect (most articulated in Chapter 2) is just the Osiris aeon ego stuff seen through a new lens, just as the collective aspect (most articulated in Chapter 1) is just the Isis aeon subconsciousness stuff seen through a new lens. What's new - what's truly New Aeon - is the coexistence of the mother and the father in the child - the coexistence of the collective and the individual - being not just "one star" but, equally, "in the company of stars."
And, simply put: Forging mass-mind constructs is one of the most powerful tools we have for working with individuals and furthering everybody's needs.
"This is in contrast to the past where a priest, or monarch, or someone else, dictated these things to the laity."
Agreed. Or, at least, for the adept, what you say is exactly true. But it isn't really true (not in any practical, real-world sense) for those who aren't at least close to adepthood. The world still has (and needs) caretakers, and the caretakers are responsible for tending to the children until they're ready to stand as spiritual adults.
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@Veronica said
"I think though that I am hard wired much differently then most and have a different degree of spiritual inclination naturally. Four planets in Scorpio maybe..."
Strengh, Beauty, Joy, Stillness.
Yup, fits.
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The short answer for 1-3 : Yes
Some expansion to follow@Frater Potater said
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- Why practice Liber Resh at all?"
This question is something of a doozy,
My initial response was "Why not?"
That is not productive to discussionFor one, it is a simple, easy ritual that does not take much time out of the day
Personally, I see it as one of the most important practices -
Feeling that beyond Resh, Will and the LBRP everything else is bells and whistlesAnything which would come close to the effect, would be quite similar to Resh in my opinion
Not only does it provide practice at some of the most important elements of a magick practice
It creates a connection to the Sun, a rythem for a persons life
A constant reminder, if you will, to stop and smell the Rose
And give thanks to all those things which make your life possible -
Frater Potater,
I once rewrote Resh without all the Egyptian stuff. It's at home, or I'd post it.
It removed the Egyptian names and replaced them with Son, Mother, Father, and Daughter, but it gave them basically the same characteristics as in Resh.
I did this because I saw each as an aspect of my own psyche. Through the process of impressing the unconscious mind with the positive images for male-self and female-self, young-self and old-self, I hypothesized that the effect would be to work to correct (dare I say "redeem"?) negative personal psychological associations with any of these pieces of my whole self.
The effect that it began to have on me was an experience of... hmmm... for succinctness, I'll simply call it a sense of nostalgia, almost, for my own family and familiness writ large. Divine Family kind of thing. Maybe that sounds trivial, but it was quite powerfully personally meaningful. Not nostalgia like longing - I'm trying to express the feeling of being in the midst of it.
Note: I did eventually resist some of the associations with Daughter as Kephra and sleeping and silence. I think I had said something like "I will bless the Daughter in her sleeping and eventual awakening." I think in that case, the two different forms clashed a bit.
It was only after rewriting it and working with it that way that I was comfortable with actual Resh.
I say all this because I think, psychologically speaking, it serves the same purpose - to present the mind with positive, corrective images of the stages of life and the natural forces - given in the gods of Resh as the stages of the Sun.
Re: True Will. The relationship of this sort of "living mandala" practice through the day to True Will is... Well, foundational to my own conception of True Will is that each of us has our own flavor and part to play within the whole. Working with something that seems to intentionally present a holistic conception of the self as stages of the day may serve to gear the mind toward more readily accepting that divergent Wills may all serve the whole, as well as acceptance of the distinctiveness of our own individual Wills.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Jim Eshelman said
"But (politics and social engineering aside), religion has always meant the same as yoga. The first literally means "reconnecting," and the second means "union.""
I really want to believe this, especially since Joseph Campbell said almost the exact same thing, but my own research is telling me otherwise.
I looked up religio in my Traupman Latin & English Dictionary (which I purchased at Mr. Eshelman's recommendation; thank you!), and it doesn't actually have anything resembling "reconnecting" as the definition:
@Traupman said
"religio -onis f religion; religious scruple, sense of right, conscience; misgivings; reverence, awe; sanctity, holiness; sect, cult; mode of worship; object of veneration, sacred object, sacred place; divine service, worship, ceremonies; religious practice, ritual; (pej) taboo; superstition; manifestation of a divine sanction; (w. gen) scruple about, scrupulous regard for"
The only neighboring word that has a meaning resembling "reconnecting" (or "to link back or bind," as Campbell put it) is religo, but that's missing an "i."
@Traupman said
"religo -are -avi -atus tr to tie back, tie up; to moor (ship); to untie, unfasten; to bind (with a wreath, ribbon)"
If we remove the prefix "re-," we can find "ligo" as a word, but not "ligio"... It has essentially the same meaning as "religo" above.
Any help or insight into this will be greatly appreciated.
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@Zalthos said
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Jim Eshelman said
"But (politics and social engineering aside), religion has always meant the same as yoga. The first literally means "reconnecting," and the second means "union.""
I really want to believe this, especially since Joseph Campbell said almost the exact same thing, but my own research is telling me otherwise.
I looked up religio in my Traupman Latin & English Dictionary (which I purchased at Mr. Eshelman's recommendation; thank you!), and it doesn't actually have anything resembling "reconnecting" as the definition"
Traupman is the standard for Latin, yes... but necessarily the best source for etymology. For example, it doesn't include every word known from Latin, just the ones most likely to be encountered (unless you got the unabridged, which set you back hundreds of dollars).
The English word religion is essentially "re-ligature" - re-connect. It has a 12th Century Middle English origin, tracing back to the Latin root religio (which, as you noted, simply means "religion," or words like conscience, holiness, etc.) This Latin word, in turn, emerges from re + ligare, "to tie or fasten." (Interestingly, the English word rely also comes from this. I'd missed that link before.)
"The only neighboring word that has a meaning resembling "reconnecting" (or "to link back or bind," as Campbell put it) is religo, but that's missing an "i.""
I'm not home, so can't look it up. I think this is one of those words that just isn't in Traupman. (The standard edition isn't exhaustive. It's just the best there is, except for the Traupman unabridged. I've never seen one of those outside of a college library reference section.)
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Jim Eshelman said
"The English word religion is essentially "re-ligature" - re-connect. It has a 12th Century Middle English origin, tracing back to the Latin root religio (which, as you noted, simply means "religion," or words like conscience, holiness, etc.) This Latin word, in turn, emerges from re + ligare, "to tie or fasten." (Interestingly, the English word rely also comes from this. I'd missed that link before.)
I'm not home, so can't look it up. I think this is one of those words that just isn't in Traupman. (The standard edition isn't exhaustive. It's just the best there is, except for the Traupman unabridged. I've never seen one of those outside of a college library reference section.)"
Rest assured, I have an abridged, 700 page paperback version. Although I'd love to have an unabridged edition, I don't have that kinda cash available for books right now!
I did actually find another word, right above "religio" that resembles what we're talking about: "religatio -onis," which has the singular definition of "tying back or up." I apologize for overlooking that and not providing it in my previous post.
I found something under the etymology section of the Religion wikipedia page that reinforces your point a bit:
@Wikipedia said
"Religion (from O.Fr. religion "religious community," from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods," "obligation, the bond between man and the gods") is derived from the Latin religiΕ, the ultimate origins of which are obscure. ... Modern scholars such as Tom Harpur and Joseph Campbell favor the derivation from ligare "bind, connect", probably from a prefixed re-ligare, i.e. re (again) + ligare or "to reconnect," which was made prominent by St. Augustine, following the interpretation of Lactantius. The medieval usage alternates with order in designating bonded communities like those of monastic orders: "we hear of the 'religion' of the Golden Fleece, of a knight 'of the religion of Avys'"."
I have to know more about St. Augustine's use of this! Definitely something worth researching, methinks...
EDIT: Found a great source on this topic!!! Check this link out, and scroll down to "Definitions of Religion and Philosophy." Quite enlightening, and it is a proponent for the same roots that you propose!
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