LBRP
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@Redd Fezz said
"After LBRP and MPR, what's the next ritual I should attempt?"
Perhaps start yoga along with these two rituals, instead of focusing on a new ritual right away. Spend some time with these three things before moving on to something new. Except Liber Resh. Do you do that?
These rituals take time to start creating changes. And you need to develop more than just the outer forms of the rituals. Do them every day without fail. Allow the visualizations and sensations to develop organically as your understanding of and connections to the rituals develop. You can burn yourself out, while getting little positive result if you rush through rituals to quickly without securing your foundations first. I learned that from personal experience and pretty much ended up starting all over again from scratch.
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"Octagram"
Was that a joke, Virgil?
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Hi Everyone,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Virgil, I have some questions about several statements
">For instance, unless the "chosen one" is united with Nuit - no one here can achieve Hadit. Hadit extends from the ascension of the prophet, and not just anyone. The Deity exists on multiple levels, as does the very real and very true prophecy of BOTL - but its also case specific.
"Could you clarify each of these statements?
"> This is the fundamental problem with modern OTO and such."
Of course, the above requested clarification might help me to understand.
">They are devoid of leadership, and the very highest grade among any of them independent of Hadit is Adeptus Minor."
I’m really trying to understand this…
"> Furthermore, I don't see any evidence for that grade.
"????
"
> What you have is a mish-mash of intellectuals and pseudo-intellectuals, and many of which have a chip on their shoulders."Is this information gained from experience or unfounded opinion? If the latter, it is getting very close to what some people might consider slander.
Love is the law, love under will.
Thanks,
Fr. Z. T.
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I checked out Virgil's website and it looks like he's created his own organization based on Liber AL. But, so far, I've read all of Virgil's comments on this board and none of them seem to jibe with the lucid explanations in Crowley's own comments found in The Law Is For All.
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The Tarot designs on Virgil's site are quite beautiful. I can't relate the imagery to any concepts of Tarot with which I'm familiar, though, whether Christian, Thelemic, or general pagan.
Virgil, you seem to be operating from your own private Cosmos, and the usual criteria of Hermetic Qabalah apparently don't apply there. Have you crushed an universe, so that only the incommunicable remains?
Edward
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Hi -
Zo - yes and no to all questions. Meditation on the origin and root-cause will illumine my statements. I have nothing personally against anyone involved in the study of the mysteries. I despise thieves.
Redd - in a personal sense, it is my book. Crowley was a scribe and prophet, but he never found the key - nor could he.
Jim - thanks for the compliment. The OPQ Tarot is a living Journal. All cards are based upon lucid vision upon the paths.
To understand the 'ACTUAL' knowledge you will have to wait and/or join me. If not, then not. It doesn't matter to me. I'm just being responsible.
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93 Everyone,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Virgil, with all due respect, that's merely an evasion.
It's no problem if you don't want to answer. I'll respect that. Usually though if one comments on a subject one should be prepared to respond the subsequent questions otherwise why post in the first place?
Love is the law, love under will.
Fr. Z. T.
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Redd Fezz, 93,
Virgil's site isn't working right this evening. He might be updating or amending it. Last evening, I clicked on the hexagram with a key on the left of the home page. Then, by clicking on the sub-headings under Hathor, I came to the Tarot imagery.
I agree that this thread is no longer about the LBRP. Virgil has, quite ingeniously, swung the attention to himself, mostly by dropping obscure or oracular hints then not responding. Either we are open to his ideas (whatever they actually are...) or we can remain in mystery and darkness. That means any of us who are not supportive end up in the wrong.
I don't want to play somebody's games ad nauseam, but I have to concede he has gotten attention. Following your suggestion, I'm opening a 'Virgil' thread in General Discussion, just to try and clear the air.
93 93/93,
Edward
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Clarification
On Virgil's website, you can also click on Living Journal, then click on the hexagonal design in a circle over on the right.
Edward
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I guess I'll continue in this thread instead of creating a new one since my question is about the LBRP.
I've performed it to an extent that it feels like I've taken strong psychedelics - there's a sensation, like an energetic charge about my entire body that closely resembles that of the body load I've experienced while using psilocybine or LSD. I'm sorry to bring drugs into this (I haven't interpreted the forum rules to mean it's forbidden to discuss them, but I haven't seen anyone else write about them either, so I feel uncertain about it I admit), but I have no better means to compare my experience.
What I'm getting at is that I feel it is too intense for my taste and I want some advice about whether or not you think I should continue practising magick at all and some advice about what to do to "discharge" if that's possible.Let me explain the symptoms better: after two LBRPs with about 1-2 hours interval I almost felt like I was tripping heavily and had some pretty disturbing sensations during meditation directly after the first one. I came very far very fast in meditation compared to the experiences before starting to do the ritual this thoroughly. When I tried to sleep about an hour later I started to drift off, but not into what felt like drowsiness of sleep, but rather as if I was fainting. This has happened to me several times after doing the LBRP and every morning afterwards I wake up feeling pretty exhausted (any clues as to why?). This seems strange to me since the LBRP (which I blame for this) shouldn't do anything but banish negative magnetism as I understand it.
I've read that it enhances the aura and also the mood set one had before doing it, so if scared => scared to death, angry => pissed off etc., right? Well, even though I calmed down with a relaxation ritual before doing it the second time (which I did to make sure I hadn't attracted any negative spirits/charges/whatever, something it certainly felt like while trying to sleep) I lit up like a flash of electric energy; it was like my whole body had been thoroughly nudged all over against some surface causing static electricity and my hair stood on end, heavy body load sensations and increased heart rate. Later I had itches here and there, but the most important thing about the entire experience was the INTENSE energy boost I got. It was as if time went faster and I had to do things in slow motion to sync my environment regularly.Now, I've done the LBRP about once every night, followed by 30 minutes of meditation, for about a month or so (perhaps less and I've missed a day here and there every once in a while) and even if these sensations have been mildly (hence that word) present until now tonight was a BREAKTHROUGH and without doubt the most intense magickal experience I've ever had. And to return to drugs again (sorry), I had thought I could use that as a good indicator of what my mind was capable of putting up with. E.g. I've once taken 5g psilocybine and made it through fine aside from some hypertension here and there, but conclusively it was definitely positive experiences I don't mind repeating occasionally for the rest of my life, so with an attitude and capacity (or lack of) like that, would you say I have what it takes to practice magick (i.e. if you could relate to the symptoms described here would you continue?)?
And the second question again was, do you have any advice if I want to stabilize my mind so as not to experience these intense bursts of magick (to make experiences more analogous than digital, so to speak)?Oh, P.S. I'm also seeing light flashes in my peripheral visual field more or less constantly since doing the LBRP (which doesn't bother me), if that could help in making a judgment.
Thanks in advance!
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Malaclypse, I've never had anything like that happen to me. The only thing I've heard of that even comes close was a friend who performed the LBRP and then invoked Gabriel. Strangely, he was not facing West when he did and so had the shocking experience of being "gently turned around by the shoulder" by shock of shocks, Gabriel himself! I asked him if it was terrifying or what and his response was something like, "nothing can prepare you for it, that's for sure!" When I persisted in this line, his response was, "If magick scares you, then you're not doing it right." I thought about that one for a long time and still do. I guess he means that we're all temples of the in-dwelling God and as multi-plane beings, we have quite a bit of authority and power. But, I'm still not sure what I'd do if I had some sort of demonic activity in my house. I guess I'd try the LBRP, but if that didn't work, I'd probably just run away.
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You must know that the body and nervous system are a drug activated engine. Psychogenics force consciousness via excitation, and therefore its processes are not stable. The purpose of religion is to bring the self to harmony with the self, and as you do so the mystery of life is revealed. Only in extreme circumstances and under the most stable of conditions should one use drugs. It is not the means to any end, and it only has medicinal applications. Life is already magical, you just have to realize this. The directive within Liber Al was case specific and motivated by the most extreme circumstances. It is not the 'law is for all' as in 'hey everybody do this' corrupted interpretation. Don't do drugs for entertainment or experiment.
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>and so had the shocking experience of being "gently turned around by the shoulder" by shock of shocks, Gabriel himself! I asked him if it was terrifying or what and his response was something like, "nothing can prepare you for it, that's for sure!"
Hahaha!
>what I'd do if I had some sort of demonic activity in my house. I guess I'd try the LBRP, but if that didn't work, I'd probably just run away.
Hmm, do you think this seems like a demonic interference of some kind? I didn't think it was worth mentioning in my previous post because it seemed too trivial, but when I meditated I involuntarily came to think about Crowley and his ritual in the desert and I whispered the name "Choronzon" in my mind, but certainly not as some sort of invocation and immediately afterwards I also had a small inner monologue where I strictly convinced myself that I only sought out angels and the God concept in my travels. But all in all, if it was some demonic interference then that's the only thing I can think of that could've evoked it, but I still don't see how that's possible when I made the lesser "banishing" ritual of the pentagram.
What more could be of importance? Oh yeah, while initiating meditation I inwardly adressed my HGA about not being afraid no matter what might come, and like I said, it was the most intense meditation session I've experienced. I saw a fragment of a face flicker by very quickly (blue shaded) and I only instinctively realized it was looking at me with a tilted face seen from my perspective. That was the peak of the sensations and I instantly asked my HGA for protection (I had thought it would've been enough with the LBRP...). Someone has also told me it was a good thing to let the HGA do the talking with God instead of trying to get in first person contact and since I specifically said I wasn't going to get scared I guess the HGA said "suit yourself then..." and fed me too much.
Does this reasoning sound sound to you professionals? -
@Virgil said
"Life is already magical, you just have to realize this. The directive within Liber Al was case specific and motivated by the most extreme circumstances. It is not the 'law is for all' as in 'hey everybody do this' corrupted interpretation. Don't do drugs for entertainment or experiment."
That may be a very good advice, but the case mentioned above had absolutely nothing to do with drugs (perhaps some nicotine was still lingering somewhere inside me, but it was years since I took anything more potent than that). I just mentioned the drugs because it seems magick unlocks similar or the same faculties of the mind as most tryptamines.
And also, thanks for putting the bit about the function of religion so lucidly. It simplified matters for me.
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93,
"Hmm, do you think this seems like a demonic interference of some kind?"
Could I suggest that thinking along these lines can become a feedback loop? That we can talk ourselves into a one-way ticket to Paranoia Central? You seem, judging by your reference to Choronzon, to be auto-suggestible, which has benefits but also obvious drawbacks.
The LBRP is a regulatory ritual - it balances us. Now, if you've not determined what in yourself needs equilibrating before you start, you'd soon find out; you may react to the ritual's energies at first by manifesting exactly what needs to be equilibrated. The LBRP ought to be something you could use to calm down the somatic effects you're getting, by banishing volatile emotionality.
I once knew a woman who'd had a strict Christian upbringing, and claimed her curtains stood out whenever she tried the LBRP. She eventually realised it was all coming from inside, even if her curtains did physically move. I think she was disappointed, because she was psyched up for a battle with Evil, with herself as the heroine, and found it hard to recognize that magick was going to make her life more stable - not more exciting.
93 93/93,
Edward