when to banish? and how??
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Heru, 93,
Hope you enjoy Bloom.
Another book that's a bit heavy going, but has some gems in it, is Prof. Moshe Idel's Kabbalah: New Perspectives (Yale University Press, 1988). His sixth chapter discusses the issue of the two Kerubim at either end of the Ark having male/female polarity. He quotes several ancient and medieval sources in his exposition, but basically, his theory is that when these two were having sex, the world was right. When they were alienated, things were otherwise. He also quotes sources that (as I read it) imply the use of the Kerubim as theurgic images by humans having sex.
Since these two Kerubim were identified with Chesed and Geburah, they connected along the path of Teth/Lust.
In other words, sex magick was a core component of the old Jewish religion. In that sense, Thelema restores and updates the ancient cult of Jewish divine sex magick, and our use of Hebrew words and the Tetragrammaton in particular (with its own inner polarities between the letters) is a means of tapping into that original energy.
Which doesn't mean other cultures weren't doing the same thing, obvoiusly. But it does underline a key difference between ancient Judaism and the celibacy-based forms of Christianity we got later.
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Her said
"I think my main problem is in reconciling the use of traditional Hebrew based symbolism and the origins of that symbolism in the superstitious, monotheistic Hebrew slave cult, with the progressive New Aeon philosophy of Thelema and it's quasi-Egyptian symbolism."
Oh, that'll sink you, LOL.
Remember one of the basic admonishments given to the A.'.A.'. Probationer at his or her reception: Whenever you hear the name of any god, don't assume that it's any god whatsoever except the god that is known to YOU.
Don't assume that Hebrew has anything per se to do with Judaism or its religion. (It does, but don't assume it does.
Don't carry around that assumption unless it's relevant to you somehow.) Think of it (for example) simply as some master direct-access code to every level of the human psyche hard-wired into our DNA (imagine implants from space aliens if it helps! LOL).It doesn't really matter where it came from. It matters what it IS. Hebrews happened to be the people who had it and handed it down to us.
"It just feels like I have some sort of internal resistance to using Hebrew, with all it's negative associations, that short circuits my efforts to use it effectively."
Got it. Yes. I think you're exactly right. That's the thing to work on, then.
"But I am very persistent by nature. So I'm hoping that if I just stick to it I might be able to work my way through my own internal resistance."
Neither brute force nor long-term erosion is necessarily the best way through. A change of concept often will do it much more thoroughly and quickly, and with less abrasion.
"
"The first is: "Abrogate are all rituals, all ordeals, all words and signs," &c. I take this to mean that the prior authority was withdrawn, and they needed to be reviewed.....The second verse is, "Behold! the rituals of the old time are black. Let the evil ones be cast away; let the good ones be purged by the prophet! Then shall this Knowledge go aright." Again, this calls for a review process."
I agree with most of what you say, Jim. But there's something that doesn't feel right about this whole thing. Liber O is the best example. Crowley did reissue the pentagram and hexagram rituals under the authority of the A.'.A.'. But did he "purge" them? Not as far as I can see. They are classic pre 1904 Golden Dawn rituals complete with Aeon of Osiris magical formulae. "
I don't see that a review-and-purge-if-necessary requires any change at all - not if the ritual is found to still be sound in the new framework.
I also don't see anything necessarily Osirian about anything in the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram. Can you name something that is? Is the only issue here that they were written before 1904? Or is there something else?
One thing that, in a sense, I could regard as Osirian is that the ritual uses the Formula of the Cross - that is, addresses the four quarters. But (a) the same thing is true of the later rituals such as Star Ruby and (b) this is natural to the First Order level. The "field of the Elements" is built on the Formula of the Cross. Our understanding of that formula itself has changed, but not the its central relevance.
It's related to something Crowley wrote to Grady in the last couple of years of his life: In all aeons, the one thing that remains unchanged is Yod Heh Vav Heh. (However, our understanding of what it means certainly changes.) It's the basis of the entirety of Qabalah as we know it, and the essential formula remains the core to... well, pretty much everything.
"The analysis of the keyword INRI at the beginning of the hexagram ritual surely needs to be updated to make it conform to the New Aeon. But Crowley didn't do this. Why?"
Yes, he did. But he didn't publish it. He created it for a specfiic venue, and kept it confidential to that venue. (Temple of Thelema also has a distinctly non-Osirian formula for this.)
But there is another point: From the Star Sapphire, we see two optinos for the Analysis of the Key Word. One can use the L.V.X. signs (which, I can tell you, means the entire L.V.X. formula) or - for those relatively few who know etc. the N.O.X. signs and their use - can use that. From context it seems he did not intend to communicate the latter except to those who had reached a particular level in A.'.A.'. - but for everyone else he expected the L.V.X. signs etc. to be used. I'm going to jump, for sake of discussion, to the conclusion that he meant "use in the same old Osirian way." There is an important point of that everyone has to make the transition of Aeons themselves and that the Osiris formula is still baseline for human beings first entering the Work. The fact that we're "in" the Aeon of Horus doesn't mean it is a universal baseline - Osiris consciousness is still the baseline or the normal, healthy human adult. Therefore, I'm sure as I can be that Crowley intentionally left the baseline form of the Analysis of the Keyword in the Osirian form.
(Similarly, in Temple of Thelema, the candidate throughout the First Order - the elemental Formula of the Cross. The transition to Second Order is the specific point where the Cross (4) is raised to the Pentagram (5) and Horus succeeds Osiris. The same is done in A.'.A.'., but you ahve to remember that Second Order in A.'.A.'. begins at 2=9. The 1=10 initiation (Liber 671) is pointedly and intentionally Osirian - the 2=9 initiation (Liber 120) shifts this to Horus.)
"There was one part that I found very interesting. Crowley said that for the sake of expediency the old formulae still worked. Expediency is quite a revealing word. It suggests "stop gap" measures and convenience rather than a final solution. "
It may mean "stop gap," but I don't know - literally don't know - if that's what it means. It may mean "pragmatic instead of ideological." In other words: Do what works!
"Hebrew and DNA!!!? I find that pretty difficult to accept."
That's fine with me. But every scrap of experience I have tells me this is the case. Hebrew isn't just the language of a bunch of Semitic wondering tribes - it is the thing which they (having no other language to use) say was given to humanity by angels. I truly believe it is THE master code hard-wired into the human physical vehicle - the pattern of which is inherited from generation to generation - and which reflects the capacity of the human nervous system etc. to sustain all specific modes and levels of consciuosness accessible to us.
Only Sanskrit has shown the potential of being anything close in its direct power to move energy, shift consciousness, make changes, etc. One day I hope to have the time to investigate the relationship of the two more intimately - I haven't had the luxury yet.
"Especially after reading Kieren Barry's, The Greek Qabalah. Barry puts forward a very good argument that the ancient Jews got all their who alpha-numerical system from the Greeks who were using the system of gematria and the whole idea of correspondences a long time before the Jews started using."
That's just gematria. I'm not sure he's correct, but, in any case, I'm not talking about anything that intellectual. - Or, to the extent that the numeric relationships are part of the pattern I'm mentioning, and if Kieren happens to be right about that point, then the fact that the Hebrews hadn't discovered the numeric patterns in their system doesn't mean they weren't always there.
"To suggest that everyone is born hard-wired with Hebrew seems bizarre to me."
Yeah, I get that. (You're apparently still thinking of it as a Jewish language.)
"I can accept that you can train, or wire, Hebrew into your brain and can then use it to structure thought processes in the same way that the Tree of Life can be a structured reality model. But to suggest that it is objective and even organic seems a strange idea to me."
I don't mind voicing strange ideas <g>.
Our visual models - e.g., the Tree - is obviously a "best representation" of something inwardly present. But the wiring that for which it is a visual model is, I am sure, objective and organic.
"A quote from MTP springs to mind:
"An excellent man of great intelligence, a learned Qabalist, once amazed the Master Therion by stating that the Tree of Life was the framework of the Universe. It was as if some one had seriously maintained that a cat was a creature constructed by placing the letters C. A. T. in that order. It is no wonder that Magick has excited the ridicule of the unintelligent, since even its educated students can be guilty of so gross a violation of the first principles of common sense"
"Exactly. You're talking about the Tree. I'm talking about the thing that the Tree represents.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"There is an important point of that everyone has to make the transition of Aeons themselves and that the Osiris formula is still baseline for human beings first entering the Work. The fact that we're "in" the Aeon of Horus doesn't mean it is a universal baseline - Osiris consciousness is still the baseline or the normal, healthy human adult."
This is something that I've felt to be true for some time, but never put into words. The whole "Equinox of the Gods" thing in 1904, the reception of the Book, etc., seems to be a larger-scale "version" of what should happen in each of us as we develop.
(I particularly like this since I'm a fan of the pre-1900 Golden Dawn, and I chafe at the idea that all of that should be thrown out...)
Just like in traditional Jewish Kabbalah - when they said that only someone who has reached the age of 40 should start studying Kabbalah - I wonder if there's some critical point of individual development prior to which it's not fruitful to even introduce the idea of Thelema!
"But every scrap of experience I have tells me this is the case. Hebrew isn't just the language of a bunch of Semitic wondering tribes - it is the thing which they (having no other language to use) say was given to humanity by angels. I truly believe it is THE master code hard-wired into the human physical vehicle - the pattern of which is inherited from generation to generation - and which reflects the capacity of the human nervous system etc. to sustain all specific modes and levels of consciuosness accessible to us. "
I don't know if I'd yet go this far with regard to Hebrew specifically. But I do have to say that the more ancient and "primal" a language is, the more I get the above feeling. Once before on this forum I mentioned the fascinating and "deep" etymological correspondences that can arise when reading, say, a dictionary of Indo-European root-words. Similarly primal and powerful!
Steve
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@Steven Cranmer said
"Just like in traditional Jewish Kabbalah - when they said that only someone who has reached the age of 40 should start studying Kabbalah - I wonder if there's some critical point of individual development prior to which it's not fruitful to even introduce the idea of Thelema!"
In the original design of A.'.A.'., one never saw The Book of the Law or heard about its doctrine until after being admitted to 2=9 - again (as mentioned before), Second Order.
This was intentionally changed after WW I when Crowley recrafted the Syllabus to put most Class E documents on the Probationer 0=0 list.
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Heru,
I get the situation now. You are right. If no one can know exactly how something was said, how can you pronounce it correctly for rites that you are doing? If you are saying it incorrectly, the wrong tones or whatever, then how can it work?
However, as Jim said, the only thing that matters is if the rites do work. Jim says that they do.
Get your frustration, now.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
93
"Hebrew isn't just the language of a bunch of Semitic wondering tribes - it is the thing which they (having no other language to use) say was given to humanity by angels. I truly believe it is THE master code hard-wired into the human physical vehicle - the pattern of which is inherited from generation to generation - and which reflects the capacity of the human nervous system etc. to sustain all specific modes and levels of consciuosness accessible to us.
Only Sanskrit has shown the potential of being anything close in its direct power to move energy, shift consciousness, make changes, etc. One day I hope to have the time to investigate the relationship of the two more intimately"
Where, then would that other angelic tongue, Enochian, fit in this scheme?
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Don't assume that Hebrew has anything per se to do with Judaism or its religion. (It does, but don't assume it does.
Don't carry around that assumption unless it's relevant to you somehow.) Think of it (for example) simply as some master direct-access code to every level of the human psyche hard-wired into our DNA"I think I'm beginning to understand what are you are saying here Jim. But would it be more accurate to say that the underlying structure, or the meta-principles behind Hebrew, are hard-wired into DNA. What we see as Hebrew itself is a concrete representation and external expression of these abstract, genetic principles.
@Jim Eshelman said
" (imagine implants from space aliens if it helps! LOL)."
I seriously doubt that would work for me.
Just going back to the original theme of this thread. Would it be correct to assume that the Liber O material should be mastered and perfected, in all it's variations, before any attempt is made to practice the Star Ruby? I'm basing my assumption on the fact that Liber O is assigned to the grade of Neophyte A.'.A.'., and your mention of Thelema only being introduced at the Grade of Zelator.
There's also this quote from The Constitution of the Order of Thelemites that has sprung to mind as possible confirmation:
"All Zelators shall use the daily invocations given in Liber CC, the Rituals of Liber XXV, Liber XXXVI, and Liber XLIV, and the Will before meat, as taught them in their initiation."
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@Her said
"I think I'm beginning to understand what are you are saying here Jim. But would it be more accurate to say that the underlying structure, or the meta-principles behind Hebrew, are hard-wired into DNA. What we see as Hebrew itself is a concrete representation and external expression of these abstract, genetic principles."
I don't object to that, but I suspect it's far more specific than that - that the shapes of the letters, the kinesthetic feel of making them, the exact number and patterns of them (from which the Tree of Life arises, etc.) - that all this sort of thing (in a way that applies uniquely to the Hebrew alphabet and to no other known alphabet) is what's hard-wired into us.
"Just going back to the original theme of this thread. Would it be correct to assume that the Liber O material should be mastered and perfected, in all it's variations, before any attempt is made to practice the Star Ruby? I'm basing my assumption on the fact that Liber O is assigned to the grade of Neophyte A.'.A.'., and your mention of Thelema only being introduced at the Grade of Zelator."
I wouldn't make that determination for someone else a priori or generally. (And, as of 1919, both Liber L. and the various Class E documents were rolled into the Probationer syllabus.)
But, from personal experience, I'd certainly recommending long practice and deep familiarity with the Lesser Pentagram Ritual as preliminary to later adaptations of it.
"There's also this quote from The Constitution of the Order of Thelemites that has sprung to mind as possible confirmation:
"All Zelators shall use the daily invocations given in Liber CC, the Rituals of Liber XXV, Liber XXXVI, and Liber XLIV, and the Will before meat, as taught them in their initiation."
"Remember, though, that in the Order of Thelemites, "Zelator" doesn't mean what it means in A.'.A.'. - its the title for any person who walks off the street, signs a pledge form, and is accepted as a member.
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Hm, about that hardwiring thing you talk about. It's interesting how alike chromosomes are to Hebrew letters. Those things are structures which produce crystallization at certain latitudes of fixed transformation, or however one puts it into fitting terms (hope you know what I mean). Synchronizing the thoughts with a letter that is so close to the "crystallized" (matterized) level by resonance seems like one of the best ways to create changes in the body and also learn a great deal in the process by the combination of visualization and vocalization. Wow! Magick is SO COOL! Thanks for the inspiration Jim!
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Jim, or anyone else initiated enough? Can you confirm if the hard-wire thing has anything to do with chromosomes, or how it otherwise is connected to something like it?
I thought about that some more and it seems like this to me (and I would very much like confirmation/correction 
The subconscious talks in symbols and not rational arguments, because it has more to do with the hardware than the software (synapses, of course), as e.g. our chromosomes. Those are, as far as I understand it, aligned so as to give the genes affinity to attract/enhance/produce/mimic/etc. certain specific qualities, like having blue eyes (which must have something to do with a certain frequency which the particles manifesting into blue eyes spins at, as with everything else in nature), or seeing blue or red colour rather than green or brown, and so on.
Looking at it from this perspective, it seems that if the alignment of the particular ideas, which the genes thus represent, can be manipulated by attracting other ideas at the same level*, like looking at a Hebrew letter which has the exact same appearance as the alignment of the chromosome producing a certain type of colour or sound in our consciousness, then I think it's easy to hack and reprogram the Self, and I think I understand how much of magick works, if this is correct.The subconscious has to do with hardware, but there's of course no digital limit between soft- and hardware, but analogous as with everything else, but roughly speaking I mean. At a critical point, the pattern of the organism (which I presently like to think of as the resonance that (re)generates the DNA) reaches complexity enough to gain perspective in what we call Assiah, or matter space-time with its thermodynamic laws of fluctuation, it forms consciousness and the rational process begins to spread a new pattern of divination, forming the personality...
I added this last part to really be as clear as I can about where I'm coming from.- Level of solidarity between external stimuli and internal hardware.
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@Malaclypse said
"Jim, or anyone else initiated enough? Can you confirm if the hard-wire thing has anything to do with chromosomes, or how it otherwise is connected to something like it?"
Remember that we don't have physical confirmation of anything here - but, if it is truly something conveyed from generation to generation, then it must (ultimately) be chromosomal, right?
Those 23 pairs have long interested me.
PS - Loved the hardware/software analogy.
PSS - Did you ever notice that "DNA" has three of the four letters of Adonai (ADNY)? The only thing missing is the Yod - the will - the I. (Just like Adam, ADM, is DM, "blood," with breath (A) added.)
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PS - I think it's OK for me to add that the Second Degree ceremony of Aspirants to Light has a section dramatizing the Qabalistic relationship of the 23 chromosome pairs to the inherent Mysteries passed from generation to generation.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Remember that we don't have physical confirmation of anything here - but, if it is truly something conveyed from generation to generation, then it must (ultimately) be chromosomal, right?"
Yes, I can't disagree with that, of course. But I am very curious about where or how these things have come to anyone's knowledge, because, being a Westerner programmed human as I am, if there is no physical evidence, how have the analogies been extracted? I mean that as in, I don't understand specifically how, not saying I can't believe it. Because it must be deeeeeeep indeed to get to the level of genetic encoding from the level of consciousness, and to then extrapolate something that will be meaningful at the latter level... seems incomprehensible from my present pov.
Or by the way, everything having to do with perspective is overcome if it's looked at from a great enough distance, so if the ego isn't the end, it's of course possible for people like Buddha to have reached deep enough to see the connections clearly, I guess. But the real depths start to come into focus to me now. This is incredible... I THELEMA magick!Also, if you have some recommendations for books to read about the subject I'd love to hear it.
@Jim Eshelman said
"Those 23 pairs have long interested me."
Me too, but that was when I studied biology, so I bet they're way more interesting from the magick pov. Got any book recommendations or interesting information about them too?
@Jim Eshelman said
"PS - Loved the hardware/software analogy."
Thanks. Glad to be of service for once!
@Jim Eshelman said
"PSS - Did you ever notice that "DNA" has three of the four letters of Adonai (ADNY)? The only thing missing is the Yod - the will - the I. (Just like Adam, ADM, is DM, "blood," with breath (A) added.)"
Cool! No, that hadn't struck me.
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@Malaclypse said
"But I am very curious about where or how these things have come to anyone's knowledge, because, being a Westerner programmed human as I am, if there is no physical evidence, how have the analogies been extracted?"
That's one place Western thinking - as well as a large block of conventional Eastern thinking - falls short. One of the true "super powers" that comes with actual initiation (actual progress in The Path) is the power to directly know what is so independent of any evidence coming through the physical senses,, intellect, or emotion.
This doesn't require vast and gigantic progress, btw - it starts to appear in most people by the time they are deeply into A.'.A.'. 1=10 - that is, the "power" to have a direct answer in response to a question, essentially as soon as the question is correctly formulated. The biggest impediment at that stage is when emotion intervenes, and that is handily addressed in the next couple of degrees. "Truth sense" (O ye fans of Dune) is a genuine "power" that develops early and grows step-by-step roughly in step with the deepening of one's connection to the HGA.
It is possible to simply know something without having learned it from anyplace - not just philosophical or relative truths, but concrete physical truth.
"Also, if you have some recommendations for books to read about the subject I'd love to hear it."
I can't think of any. I'm not sure I've read any. You might get closest by reading the autobiographical and other works by the late Gopi Krishna.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"This doesn't require vast and gigantic progress, btw - it starts to appear in most people by the time they are deeply into A.'.A.'. 1=10 - that is, the "power" to have a direct answer in response to a question, essentially as soon as the question is correctly formulated."
Aha, in that case I think I had about an hour long "seizure" where I encountered that power. Whenever I asked a question the answer automatically popped up in my mind, like you describe it there. I started thinking in my paranoia that I was possessed (because it sure seemed like the voice of another entity inside me), and in the back of the mind there was a vague impression of a screaming madman, raving about something completely incomprehensible, but I'm not cetrain those two are connected.
@Jim Eshelman said
"The biggest impediment at that stage is when emotion intervenes, and that is handily addressed in the next couple of degrees. "Truth sense" (O ye fans of Dune) is a genuine "power" that develops early and grows step-by-step roughly in step with the deepening of one's connection to the HGA."
Wouldn't balance be the key to advance beyond that step, by any chance? I'm presently going through the Major Arcana and when I came to Adjustment, I felt better able to discern things. This may be only me, because I am usually very imbalanced, almost bipolar disorder symptoms at times, so that's mainly why I ask.
Thanks for the answer(s)!
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@Oscillate said
"
"The real pattern [of the elements in the LBRP] is that the First Order formula is the letters of Adonai (ADNY) clockwise from the East, just as the Second Order formula is the letters of YHVH counter-clockwise from the East."Hello Jim,
Please can you explain how the letters of ADNY relate to the elements. I can see the connection of Aleph - Air, but do not understand how the other elements correspond to Daleth, Nun & Yod respectively."
Zodiacal letters get their elemental attribution from the zodiacal sign. Planetary letters get the elemental attribution from their Sephirah. So,
ALEPH is Air.
DALETH is Fire (Venus via Netzach)
NUN is Scorpio, a Water sign
YOD is Virgo, an Earth sign