Aleister Crowley and the Ouija Board book / Red Flame
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I have not read the book, nor am I particularly interested. I would suggest that you doubly research anything that is not founded in Historical precedence. The author has an amazing library for research, and is an excellent student of history. I would just be a little wary of any interpretation there of.
LLLL
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Thanks for the information. He at any rate seems like a generally interesting occult writer and good at putting the story of explanation together, I think from this book.
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I read this one, and although most occultists probably won't learn anything particularly new to them or of major importance, I think it's a good idea to promote more proper uses for this tool. There's been incidents of unwanted invocation, let alone evocation. When I was a silly kid I played with it all the time and unharnessed energy blew the tube on the television.
Malaclypse, youre quite right about electricity and fire; are you aware of the colour/element associations found in certain indigenous cultures that relate to the four directions and the four groupings of people? It relates to what you just asked, because for the more southern tribes in north america, they tend to associate the west, which is basically Caucasian people with the element Fire; this is why the western world has been so dominant; electricity is a powerful manifestation but most dangerous and volatile; our society does tend to burn others and ourselves; its used the wrong way a lot. The others are red-earth-north,
yellow-air-east,
black-water-south
notice how these people are best in their element, and how their traditions and culture and religions focus on it...its a cool topic to look at. -
Ah, thanks for the explanation, Elkeid! No, I wasn't aware of that categorization specifically. Do they correlate to "the peoples" in Liber AL by any chance, or is that just meant as "any random culture"?
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"Do they correlate to "the peoples" in Liber AL by any chance, or is that just meant as "any random culture"?
Just wanted to jump in here and give an opinion.** Liber Al vel Legis** is not (as I said, this is just my opinion) a book that can be said to mean 'something' or 'anything' in particular. Many things that occured (and continue to occur) on the physical plane seem (to some) to be THE manifestation of a certain verse or chapter, but this is not the 'whole story', so to speak. The verses of the book are far deeper than their type. I have discussed this (in my opinion) most Holy and important book with many Thelemites, as well as with a number of non-Thelemites. I found that time and time again, everyone I talked to (or at least it seemed) had read a different book!
This povides an endless supply of insight because other people have a fresh view, something you would not naturally have seen yourself, which is very exciting! 
Also! I have read The Book of the Law hundreds of times, and I never read the same book twice! Just as (I'm sure) the book has changed you, so will the book change with you as you develop. There are things written in that book that only you can read. Things only you, and no one but you were ever meant to read. There is no greater authority on this matter than your Heart of hearts, your True Self. -
93
I agree with that MQL; Liber Al vel Legis can be explored and partially understood on so many different levels; it's both personal and universal and changes just as much as we do personally and collectively.
So Malaclypse, only you can answer that question to your satisfaction throughout your life; I tend to see the different groupings of the past as star-systems, clusters even. Maybe even constellations of Nuit. They change and merge and drift away, but it would be a shame to dismiss insights from the ancient past.Because we know more about each other today, we are able to learn from each grouping's manifestation of an element. For instance, from the East-air; Yoga has become a way to learn how to breathe properly. It's just a way to understand the world we live in, and how it's all interconnected and also helps to synthesize such teachings on the micro and macro.
If it were too subjective I wouldn't mention it, but the elements act as they do; get into alchemy though, and that would be a little more difficult to articulate(at least for me).
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Thank you both for the answers! This has been mentioned before on heruraha, but I guess I didn't take it to heart entirely. One of the reasons is that thing mentioned about the levels of understanding it. I take that as a journey from objective to subjective, or perhaps the other way around, not sure yet. It's therefore good to juggle the ideas with others who've worked with it. It is indeed very cool that it is so ever changing, methinks.
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@Elkeid said
"I read this one, and although most occultists probably won't learn anything particularly new to them or of major importance, I think it's a good idea to promote more proper uses for this tool. There's been incidents of unwanted invocation, let alone evocation. When I was a silly kid I played with it all the time and unharnessed energy blew the tube on the television.
Malaclypse, youre quite right about electricity and fire; are you aware of the colour/element associations found in certain indigenous cultures that relate to the four directions and the four groupings of people? It relates to what you just asked, because for the more southern tribes in north america, they tend to associate the west, which is basically Caucasian people with the element Fire; this is why the western world has been so dominant; electricity is a powerful manifestation but most dangerous and volatile; our society does tend to burn others and ourselves; its used the wrong way a lot. The others are red-earth-north,
yellow-air-east,
black-water-south
notice how these people are best in their element, and how their traditions and culture and religions focus on it...its a cool topic to look at."I'm curious about what this exactly means, since it was put so matter-of-factly, I have interpreted it as if it was intended as a "given" universal thing. These colors, elements and directions aren't universal as far as I can tell and so I'm wondering where this idea came from exactly. In a Tibetan mandala, blue is the center, white is east (pacifying), green is north (fierce/elimination), red is west (conquering) and yellow is south (enriching).
So, while the west is still the same, all the rest are different. And not just colors, but their elements. In the east is water to balance the fire of the west. In the north is air and in the south is earth. So, how does this effect what you've stated above: "notice how these people are best in their element, and how their traditions and culture and religions focus on it...its a cool topic to look at." ?
These are questions, not meant as an attack by any means. Just clarifying since intentions are not always obvious online. Thanks.
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93 Red Fezz,
No need to walk on eggshells, I don't feel attacked when questioned. It's good for me to know when I'm not expressing myself well.
I’m also not the type of person who claims to express absolutes; I don’t believe I really have any absolutes especially when it comes to human structures like colour symbolism’ our eyes can’t even register a lot of the colour spectrum. At the same time though,
I do feel that there is a certain truism to how different cultures are aware of colour in representing various wavelengths in their own environment; and their most aware spiritual systems are in-tune with some aspects of universal energy . Primal genetic make-up of a particular group, and their interaction with different cultures would all influence how the colours are categorized; so I didn’t mean to say they are, or should be all the same.
They differ because they are talking about different things –I realize this-the traditional Tibetan mandala is divided to represent the 5 Buddhas. By the colour correspondences I mentioned this would all apply to some of the teachings of air. The colour correspondences I mentioned initially are some of the teachings of earth because I said they are indigenous and they are the earth-orientated people- that’s why it’s talking about all the different people and how they implement what they have learned on earth and how they use it on earth- Course it doesn’t all stop anywhere at some universal ‘fact’; circles don’t really have divisions, but they have a center. The directions are not even four only, there’s “up”, “down”, and then the inner-the circle’s center. The only evidence you really need for any of this is your own observations; but to tell you where this particular one came from; it’s part of a prophecy which comes from Nunavut in the Arctic and from the Hopi and from South America -which isn’t to say all their cultural colours match up. The colours aren’t even the important part here but that’s why I consider it appropriate: it all depends how closely we look into it as it’s hidden when we’re distracted by ‘facts’. Don’t take my word for it, but I see African culture as very rhythmic like water and very musical for example, plus the Nile is pertinent to its survival. Thelema is African in its deities; yet we acknowledge yoga and asanas, etc. Fire gets along with air very well; Fire and water though…history is some evidence of that. I find this all interesting and it works for me; just thought I’d share some of it.Or to be a little more on-topic, I asked my ouija board if any of this was true but it just told me to Eff off.
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Ah, now I getcha! Yes, that is very cool. Thanks for taking the time to explain that. BTW, I was reading "Autobiography of a Yogi" last night and came across a bit where the author mentions the universe being created like a spider web and immediately it reminded me of the Spider Woman of the Native Americans. There's definitely a lot of cultural overlaps around the world-- and you're right: how YOU see them is what's most important. I've been comparing several religious ideas now for a while and thinking how funny it is that these people disagree with each other when it seems to me they are all saying the same thing in different words.
