blood of the moon!
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In some tantras they drink menstrual blood and semen mixed together. It's described in Alexandra David-Neel's "Magic and Mystery in Tibet," if I remember correctly.
The more I study Dzogchen and Vajrayana Buddhism, the more convinced I become that Crowley's disinterest in Buddhism is really just his realization of Rig Pa, the Great Perfection of Dzogchen. This is basically the highest form of Buddhism and yet pretty much disregards all the lower forms. It is also antinomian which some people could perceive as amoral, just like Crowley's law.
Something interesting I picked up on a related note: during a Gana Puja ceremony, Dzogchen practitioners drink alcohol and eat meat (very non-Buddhist!)... the reason I was given for this is alcohol gives a taste of Rig Pa and by eating meat, we are connecting with the energy of the animal and helping to liberate it with our intention... two ideas that seem very in-keeping with Thelema and the violence of the Book of The Law to me!
Perhaps that explains Crowley's sport hunting?
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According to what I've read, meat is a standard part of a monastic diet in Tibet. People would not last without it, in part because they need to make more red blood cells to survive in the high altitude. Chang (barley beer) is an ocasional part of monastic diet. But there's nothing exceptional in monks eating and drinking these things.
Edward
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There are all kinds of thinking about meat in Buddhism, but in general its viewed as violence and Buddhist monks don't generally kill anything-- not even bugs. And this applies also to Tibetan Buddhism, which even includes Vajrayana which tends to have a different way of thinking from other Buddhist traditions. But, since the time of the historical Buddha, I believe it was always considered wrong to reject food, including meat. Especially to waste meat is offensive to the animal. But, Buddhist tradition to this day is not to support animal slaughter and not to kill. This means they won't support meat that has been specifically killed for them, but there are all sorts of gray areas and personal justification about this. Buddhists were using tofu as a meat substitute basically since it was discovered something like 1500 years ago.
Alcohol, on the other hand, is a no-no in just about every school except in some Tibetan lineages. The reason is simply because it clouds your mind and is a perfect example of mental poison. There's the story of the monk who was threatened by an anti-Buddhist with death if he did not sacrifice a goat, sleep with his wife or drink some alcohol. Thinking it would do the least harm, the monk drank the alcohol. This impared his judgement and he ended up shtupping the wife and the bleating of the goat outside irritated him, so he went out and killed it. Vajrayana Buddhists often do drink, however. And, from what I've read, alcoholism is a very real problem in some of these groups because they deny there is any problem. Many people believe that Chogyam Trungpa was intentionally a living example of addiction and taught the lesson well: few of his students followed his lead... and many consider him another disappointing phony guru. He did some crazy stuff while drunk off his ass.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I suspect the answer is in the principle that true power is in the feminine, not the masculine. The Scarlet Woman / Babalon / etc. is she "in whom all power is given.""
Power as in the 5th Sephirah of Strength and the Pillar of Severity. The Mystery of the Chalice, the Holy Grail and of the Great Work. Please let me ramble a little... I think this is depicted on the Chariot card which connects Geburah to Binah...
Is it the Power of the feminine because of the "emptiness" one has to accomplish? I'm thinking offering the last drop of blood into the Grail in order to enter the City of the Pyramids. A way of becoming "empty of life", gestate in the womb of the Great Mother, and being fed the Blood of the Saints to be reborn?
At least this is what I think that Blood thirsty God is trying to say. Not that He wants all the blood for himself, but that blood should be used in a sacred way, to attain, to become enlightened. It may reflect the fact that humanity was NOT ready to receive this teaching in the context of the Judeo-Christian tradition(?) I wonder.
Blood sacrifices have been part of humanity for a long time though. Aztecs were very adept practicing this, and so many other cultures. Even that, the Blood of the Lamb and the Gnostic interpretation of drinking the blood of Christ and eating his flesh to become one with him. Since long, long time ago, the consumption of the sacrificial animal or even human flesh that has been offered to a god, unites you with the powers of the animal/human or you become one with god, so magically speaking, eating a woman during her period after ejaculating in her, IS drinking the blood of Christ and eating his flesh... he he he ... you can say that Christ is a pussy...
Do you think that the way to the masculine is through the feminine being this an experiential gate for a man (as per my rambling above)? If that is the case... what would it be for a woman to cross the Abyss since she is more attuned to the emptiness that is the feminine?
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Metzareph wrote: "he he he ... you can say that Christ is a pussy..."
this is awesome! -
@Metzareph said
"Blood sacrifices have been part of humanity for a long time though. Aztecs were very adept practicing this, and so many other cultures."
Don't confuse the bloody sacrifice with the living blood.
The key to the sacrifice - see Cap. XII of Magick in Theory & Practice - is that, "The blood is the life, Mr. Renfield." It is the surrendering of the life, rather than the blood representative of it, that is important in that type of working. OTOH, when Ra-Hoor-Khuit demands that blood flow in his name, I've never thought that this meant, say, in war - rather, let blood flow in life - in our veins, and in the menses - so that every beat of the heart is in Horus' name.
The flowing of the living blood is a different formula than the spilling of blood that sacrifices life.
Menstrual blood is an interesting cross-over between these two in some fashion, because it is a natural living process, yet is also nature's sacrifice of the child that was not, that month, conceived.
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@Jim Eshelman said
" when Ra-Hoor-Khuit demands that blood flow in his name, I've never thought that this meant, say, in war - rather, let blood flow in life - in our veins, and in the menses - so that every beat of the heart is in Horus' name.
"Wow! really beautiful! thanks!
Hey Jim, what would you say about the Mass of the Phoenix? You are using menstrual blood AND your own blood?
Is this the living plus the sacrificial blood? Like some sort of double whammy? -
I think not!
It would say so in the Book, IMHO. -
93 All,
I have been watching this post with Great interest because the subject is new to me. What jumps out at me, is that this is a type of blood sacrifice but, with out having to slaughter an animal. This could make this ritual ancient indeed.
A women period is normally food for an unborn child. So, the blood would be for the Nefesh the animal soul. One could also add Yesod in to the mix because Yesod=80 which equal the Hebrew letter Peh/Mars/ The Tower/Red=80.
Interestingly, PFC: Pattern on the Trestlboard statement number Five/MARS/Sex/Severity says: I recognize the MANIFESTATION of the undeviating Justice in all the circumstances of my life. Manifestation thur Mars/Sex which suggest creativity caught my attention. Instead of food for the fetus the blood would be channeled to say an image to create something else?
Please pardon my rambling. But, Is this a valid interpretation from someone who has never practiced Sex Magick?
Love is the Law Love under Will.
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ATU VIII = Lamed
ATU XI = TethAt least that is what I'm told
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93,
Yeah, you have a point;
these ATUS are interchangeable depending on your point of view. I am referring to the Hebrew letter Teth which equals = 9 (as the Astral plane). The source of birth and manifestation. On the Tree of life Yesod would correspond to the reproductive organs of a woman hence the source of blood. Either which way you look at the Atus there both feminine. 
Love is the Law love under will.
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@Fraterdeen said
"Yeah, you have a point;
these ATUS are interchangeable depending on your point of view."I suppose that's true in the sense that it's true of all facts soever
But I certainly wouldn't agree that they are interchnaeable or according to convenience of the moment. Different schools of Tarot assign them one way or another.
Historically, Strength / Lust (or the equivalent) was always XI and Justice / Adjustment was always VIII. Yet the former is clearly Leo and the latter Libra, which seems to disturb the otherwise perfect Zodiac distribution of the 12 Simple letters. Three different Exempt Adepts emerging from the Golden Dawn, all saw this problem and undertook to solve it.
Waite and Case, presuming all other attributions were correct based on the Sepher Yetzirah, found the easiest solution to be swapping the numbers on those two cards - presuming it was a blind.
Crowley, receiving Third Order instruction that Tzaddi is not The Star, discovered that the attributions of Heh and Tzaddi had been wrong - that instead of being Aries and Aquarius respectively, they were Aquarius and Aries respectively. Once this discovery was made, there was no longer any reason to swap XI and VIII on Leo and Libra - in fact, it would then have broken the system! - since IV and XVII were also sequentially swapped, and Leo-Libra (pivoting around Virgo) were exactly matched by Aquarius-Aries (pivoting around Pisces).
But yes, I got that the most important point in your numeration was the 9 value of Teth, not the trump number.
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Thank You Hoornet, Thank You Jim.
I went back and edited my first post. If I could go back and edit the second one and get away with I WOULD!
"Quote Hoornet:
ATU VIII = Lamed
ATU XI = Teth
At least that is what I'm told."Yes, this is correct. My first exposure to Magick was BOTA. I was in a rush when I wrote the above and fell back to in to an old habit pattern.
"Quote Jim:
But I certainly wouldn't agree that they are interchangeable or according to convenience of the moment. Different schools of Tarot assign them one way or another. "I confused my symbol sets. I have been told here before, it is best to stick with One Internal set of Symbols.
My apologies for taking everyone off the topic. This may be better suited for another tread.Love is the Law Love under will.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Crowley, receiving Third Order instruction that Tzaddi is not The Star, discovered that the attributions of Heh and Tzaddi had been wrong - that instead of being Aries and Aquarius respectively, they were Aquarius and Aries respectively. Once this discovery was made, there was no longer any reason to swap XI and VIII on Leo and Libra - in fact, it would then have broken the system! - since IV and XVII were also sequentially swapped, and Leo-Libra (pivoting around Virgo) were exactly matched by Aquarius-Aries (pivoting around Pisces)."
If only it were that simple.
Crowley's Star/Emperor switch is slightly different from that of Lust/Adjustment. The latter switch corrects both the sequence of the zodiac and the Hebrew alphabet at the same time. The former switch does not. By moving the Star and Emperor cards around you can have either the the zodiac or the Hebrew alphabet in sequence but not at the same time.
If Crowley had assinged Aries to the Star and Aquarius to the Emperor (obviously wrong), then the system would have been perfectly balanced. As it stands there's a small kink in it.
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@Her said
"Crowley's Star/Emperor switch is slightly different from that of Lust/Adjustment. The latter switch corrects both the sequence of the zodiac and the Hebrew alphabet at the same time. The former switch does not. By moving the Star and Emperor cards around you can have either the the zodiac or the Hebrew alphabet in sequence but not at the same time."
What lines up are the Trump numbers against the sequence of the Hebrew letters. When you swap Heh-Tzaddi and Teyth-Lamed, the Trump numbers become: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"What lines up are the Trump numbers against the sequence of the Hebrew letters. When you swap Heh-Tzaddi and Teyth-Lamed, the Trump numbers become: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18."
This is my point exactly. Following the natural order of the Tarot trumps creates a balanced double loop in the Hebrew alphabet but only one loop in the sequence of the zodiac.
If you want to correct the zodiac sequence you have to break the order of the Hebrew alphabet and the Tarot trumps.
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I have the strong impression that we have gone off-topic - and what an interesting topic! Jim started saying that he doesn't know how to begin; maybe he has more to share???
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Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law.
This Question has been moved to Chanting Ain Under the Qabalah section of the forum
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@Jim Eshelman said
"This provides an interesting basis for one aspect of a distinctly Hebraic tantra from the woman's point of view"
My grandmother taught me of a sort of Hebraic Tantra involving Lilith as the focus. According to her, Lilith was a manifestation of Binah/Saturn. She was the devourer of Adam's seed in the same way that Saturn devoured His children - & the same reason why witches symbolically ate children on their Sabbath - it was the "Fresh Blood of a Child". She also taught me that Lilith was an aspect of the Shekinah & that the image of Her(Shekinah) descending upon a Adam on the Sabbath(Saturn-day) was a symbol for Woman striding Man during intercourse...this is why Lilith was angered by not getting to be on top - for it was her rightful place...all of this, though, had to occure during the Full Moon of a Woman's cycle - for that, in It's Severity as well as It's Understanding, is what Lilith represents.
R.E.D.
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Fascinating stuff from everyone here. Some musings taking flight therefrom:
On the topic of it being taboo, logically, since priesthood in the averse usually wants to keep things to itself and to disempower its flock, it suggests itself that cunnilingus during menstruation is somehow empowering. What kind of power? The power of independence perhaps, the power not to be so easily entranced by all sorts of memes - the meme of self, the memes of culture (including the priesthood's memes!). (This seems to me to be at least part of the point of the Mass of the Pheonix too!)
If something like this is true, then this would bring out the possibility of a neurochemical investigation into the composition of the substances in question, to see if any of the hormones or whatever might be related to the capacity of the brain to shake off entrancement. Again, what suggests itself to me in this regard is that you'd be looking for a threshold chemical thingy that has something to do with the survival instinct.
What I mean is, if what normally occludes our Godhead and our through-and-through connection with the world around us, is what the Austrialian mystic John Wren-Lewis called "a malfunction in consciousness", and if that malfunction has to do with a hyperactive or over-active survival mechanism, with a very strong, very pumped up protective ego that totally takes up our attention; and if that's linked with chemical combinations from sexuality capable of bringing the level of the survival ego down a bit, that might open up some new avenues of research into how the brain works.