the redeemer

bethata418

93

the redeemer is spoken of in many places in different thelemic magickal texts. but to me, he is very unknown, i have seen him attributed to jesus, but i dont know.

can anyone help me understand who the redeemer is???

93s

418

Jim Eshelman

What passages have you found on this in Thelemic texts?

zeph

In Qabalah there is a gematric equivalence between MShICh, "Redeemer" or "Messiah", and NChSh, "Serpent".

In a Thelemic context, this may be interesting in that the only redemption spoken of in any of the Holy Books is Nuit's promise to "redeem ye from all pain". In a stretch, this unites Nu and Had under the auspices of 358, which is the mathematical forumla of 5, their offspring.

Jim Eshelman

The word "redeem" literally means "to purchase back" - it's exactly the same as when you "redeem a coupon." In Christian theology it means that a soul s "bought back" (say, from The Devil). The meaning is similar to that of freeing a slave: buying them back from slavery or indentured servitude: and therefore sometimes means, by implication, "to set free."

I'm still curious in which exact passages you have found this in source Thelemic literature. I'm pretty sure the meaning is going to be very context-sensitive. For example, Nuit uses the word in the Liber L. passage, "Obey my prophet! follow out the ordeals of my knowledge! seek me only! Then the joys of my love will redeem ye from all pain." The meaning is quite focussed here, since, by "paying the price" of following her instructions, you are "bought back" from your pain. That is, you are "set free" from your pain by this approach.

DavidH

Just as a side note, in esoteric Christian theology, such as Martinism, Christ is refered to as the REPAIRER as opposed to the Redeemer.

bethata418

at the present moment jim i am in virginia, not in NJ where all my books are. but if my memory serves me correctly it was found mostly concerning the fool. i remember it was definetly spoken of in the book of thoth concerning the fool. and i think as well with the charioteer.

thanks for any input!!!!

93s

G.

bethata418

does anyone know why the fool and charioteer would be seen as the redeemer??? thanks for any help!

93s

Jim Eshelman

Sure. I can see that for probably each of the trumps.

Speaking in the abstract, The Fool is undifferentiated spirit and, as Air, is the Vav of Tetragrammaton - cognate to Tiphereth in some specialized respect. The Chariot is the complete surrender of any personal sense of separate will to the direction of Neshemah.

But that may be out of context. Again, I'm tryin to suggest the the context of the exact language used is important. Can you please quote (verbatim) the passage(s) in question and site the source? TIA.