Joining the A.'.A.'.
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Buddhists don't need permission or lineage to start Buddhist temples, and Shinto priests can build shrines anywhere they like.
So long as the shrine houses one or more "Kami" (Gods or spirits) and people come to give prayers and offerings, the temple is considered sacred.
The same with the Greek pagan temples.Well I am building a temple for Horus, and the Kami of thelema, A shrine to the spirit or current of Thelema. Nat a mere external temple such as the OTO, but a temple that contains the inner sanctuary, the gnostic light of TRUTH itself.
Such a temple is dedicated to the A.'.A.'. the inner or third order.
I see no reason to impose a name upon my particular order that only serves to confuse people as to the nature of its purpose.
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@Metzareph said
"Dude, this post is kind of scaring me."
Shrug, even if Froclown is serious about this (though somehow I doubt it, given the Discordian admission), people can still quote Matthew 7:16 and "you get the teacher you deserve" to their hearts content, like they do about all of the other A.'.A.'. lineages. Statements like "not kept written records as orderly as one should" and "I may lumber a bit on physically doing things, but I have attained much on the inner planes" are certainly telling of a potential teacher's worth (not to mention the various misogynist statements made by F'clown on this website among others).
By the way Froclown - I think its funny you are suddenly claiming all this stuff about inner planes and hailing inner orders... weren't you psychologizing and technologizing the whole spiritual experience a week or two ago? If it happens that you are serious about "running an A.'.A.'." you're clearly using that name to ride on the coat-tails of the reputation of Crowley's order, and not sincere in your appreciation of "inner order" in any way shape or form. Without that time-tested name A.'.A.'., you've got nothing but a jumble of disconnected and untested ideas about the future, psychology, yoga, and the occult. If you had a serious system, one worthy of students on its own merits, then you'd have the balls to call it by its own name.
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I think perhaps we only differ on our understanding of what the "spiritual" and "inner orders" mean.
I am ultimately a transcendental materialist.
My statements which you suppose to be misogynistic were far less so than Crowley's misogynism. But in truth they were not anti-woman but rather anti a certain type of woman. That is woman who has no higher concerns than basic biological needs. That is the Female black magician, whose interest are in to use sex appeal to seduce men into giving them shiny stones and children. All just ornaments that say look at me, look at me.
Such women (Which is to say most women, save a few Thelemic examples) are not concerned with the Great Work. They contribute little and are most removed from the "current". I spoke ill modern culture and its origin in the old aeon, and and chastised woman for allowing this culture to appeal to the lowest elements of her nature. A culture which depends upon Feminine vanity and obsession with image over substance which is destroying all true art, literature, and even the higher exploits of the sciences.
My only claim with regard to the A.'.A.'. is that it is not the building ar the lineage that makes it the A.'.A.'. It is the intent to initiate members into the Hermetic arts, reformulated to express the now Aeon perspective.
That of the individual as relative center, rather that the almighty "some other thing thats not oneself"
The A.'.A.'. is not worship of some order, it is found in oneself. We are all Ipssissimus at our core, the trick is to raise our awareness of our true inner nature. Rather that the old aeon formula of exalting some GOD or savior.
If I can assist one member into the light, then I feel my order is a success. And a True representative of the inner order.
As far as riding Crowley's coat tails, why should I not? Hawking rides Einstein's coat tails, took over for Newton. And they are all considered Physicists, even though they don't have official lineage or permission to continue from eachother's works and each teaches his own method and theories of physics, yet they all teach physics. How can that be? maybe because each man is in contact with the platonic IDEAL of physics, they teach different things yet to study any of them is to contact that inner order called the brotherhood of physics professors.
So I having studied Thelema and the A.'.A.'. and made progress in the things that it teaches, wish to teach the A.'.A.'. to others.
"And he must teach"
I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that.
Clearly I openly admit to having no direct lineage and I admit I have flaws in some areas of discipline, so I am not deceitful.Responsibility to the initiates will give me incentive to keep better records.
When I practiced alone, I did not need people reading my journals nor did I have anyone to inspect them. I realize I ran into problems because I didn't have an objective record to judge my progress, I wish I had kept records, but hind sight is 20/20 they say. -
And Discordianism.
As I said before each sepheroth has a religious or philosophical perspective which to fully accept that philosophy "religiously" is a means to attain the awareness of that Sepheroth, which is half way to the grade associated with it.
Anyway Discordianism relates mostly to Daath If you compare the Discordian doctrines with "Liber OS ABYSMI vel DAATH" you will see that as you get deep into Discordianism especially if you are also a Philosophy major, you are performing the very same rites.
Also The Apple of Discord, is a direct parallel to the Cup of Babalon, with Eris as the mother Goddess that relates to Binna. I think it obvious that Discordia makes a fine consort for CHAOS, the Lord of Chokmah.
If approached properly "nothing is true; Everything is permissible" as a mantra produces the same experience and results as "the soldier and the hunchback." Ultimately its a total banishing, the result leaves one a "babe of the abyss"
The book af lies fits in just as well with Thelema as Discordianism.
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Froclown -
The sheer breadth and depth of your misapprehensions concerning just about everything you've written about on this forum is quite breathtaking. Just about everything you post is contradicted by something else posted by you a few days earlier. You talk about getting students as a goad to get you to keep records. What do you intend to tell them about the importance of the Magical Record? To wait until they have students of their own before they have to do so?
I don't think I've ever read anyone on this forum who talks out his ass quite as well as you do and I pity anyone who buys into your bullshit enough to accept you as a teacher.
I normally wouldn't bother saying any of this, but I find the overwhelming evidence in many of your posts of a deep and abiding hatred of women quite distasteful. Fro' you are a sad, pathetic little man.
Dan
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JAE is so patient with you. There's no way anyone on this list can take what you say seriously. Your viewpoint has no reference points or vocabulary that anyone can relate to.
It would be more beneficial if you actually had something to communicate to us so we could respond to you. Otherwise, you may find that no one responds to you, and it will be as if you are invisible.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
On the contrary, it is by not keeping records that I learn their importance.
Anyway, I have my Probationers keeping journals for 2-3 weeks without any kind of ritual practices to get a base reading as a control.
Then I will introduce simple meditation and Kabbalistic cross exersizes. Compare journals (including pulse rate, and blood pressure readings) with the base readings.
Which provides the scientific controls that were missing from my own work efforts.
I keep a similar record myself, and can not be accused of hypocrisy.
And women have many good qualities that are repressed by Osiris culture and ideals, where as her lowest qualities are enhanced. This is my criticism, nothing more.
Turning her away from authenticity and into a deceptive siren, an image and a lie. Thelema seeks to reconnect her with her nature and promotes Authenticity.
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@Froclown said
"Anyway, I have my Probationers keeping journals for 2-3 weeks without any kind of ritual practices to get a base reading as a control.
Then I will introduce simple meditation and Kabbalistic cross exersizes. Compare journals (including pulse rate, and blood pressure readings) with the base readings. "
For purposes of comparison:
@Aleister Crowley said
"I have been asked by Authority to say a few words on the relations which should subsist between a Neophyte and his Probationers... He is not expected to set definite tasks, nor has he authority to do so. The Probationer is purposely left to himself, as the object of probation is principally that those in authority may discover the nature of the raw material. (Editorial, The Equinox No. 7.)"
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I have only asked them to keep journals at this time, journals of their normal behavior, I asked for a pulse and if possible blood pressure, in order to get some sort of measure on base physiology.
I have not given any specific tasks at this time, and when I do, for the probationer these tasks only serve as benchmarks to setting some sort of routine, by which to organize the information.
Thrice daily performance of LBPR will be required of Neophytes.
Liber Jugorum, part 1 of Zelators. Etc.
I am staying mostly with the original material, but for some initiates, I may try out alternative readings and practices. Of course comparing the effectiveness, via the journal records.
The process can them be refined and improved upon. I wish I had kept a journal, so I could compare theirs to mine. Which would facilitate matters greatly and lend credibility.
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"It may be true that you are running something you have called A.'.A.'.. Let's please not confuse it with anything that anyone else here means by that name"
I feel that lineage is an important thing if you are joning a ritual group that deals with initiation. They got to have the right inner contact.
As for ToT there is no question.
I see the whole thing like a driver license. Would I ride in a taxi cab with someone who don't have a driver license? -
Which brings us to the original question of "joining the A. A." I have all the physical books. Many I have already read and continue to study. Whom may I contact to officially begin my period of study, so that when the time is ended, I can be tested and become a probationer? I am too far currently from any temples, but that may change by the end of the student period. Also, trips the temples in LA are possible as I frequent there often.
Thanks in advance for the enlightenment.
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I suggest you visit www.ordoaa.org and www.thelema.org
Everything you need is there.
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Froclown,
Your use of the title A.'.A.'. ticks me off, and is total bull. How dare you use the title of my brotherhood that you have no right to? We labor constantly to spread the light to humanity and have a direct line from Crowley himself as well as connections in the third order. You attempt to cheapen our name with some internet- log- in-and I will go ahead and accept you?
If you want to be in the A.'.A.'. get off your tail and do the work like everyone else and stop being lazy. -
@Froclown said
"
The A.'.A.'. is not worship of some order, it is found in oneself. We are all Ipssissimus at our core, the trick is to raise our awareness of our true inner nature. Rather that the old aeon formula of exalting some GOD or savior."
93 Froclown,
I'm sure you have no ill intentions, but in regards to the AA, you are right only on one level. There is the AA, and there is the Order AA founded by Crowley. The Order known as AA requires a direct lineage. The ultimate AA is one we serve and is the root of all true orders, but is not a physical order in itself. This should not stop students from studying the AA material by themselves but I think it is not appropriate to take on students unless you explain to them that Crowley's AA requires lineage and you have none. Perhaps calling it an AA study group with you as a moderator would be more honest. But if you are giving the AA Order certificates of advancement, thus is not appropriate IMHO.
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well, i was not giving any certificates, or the like.
I was simply working to present the official A.'.A.'. material, most of which is public domain, to initiates giving then the right texts, rituals and practices in the right order.
I asked them to keep a journal so that I could evaluate the effects of each assignment against their pre-assignment journals. Then I can apply a test of their skills or a proof that they attained the state or vision proper to that grade. Upon doing so, I would allow them to wear the title of that Grade, and give them the next assignments.
I did not claim any lineage, and I actively dispelled the notion that I worked for any continuation of Crowley's order, which I regard as collapsed, (like the original Golden Dawn) and this with out any official lineage.
But just as anyone can pick up "The Golden Dawn" and use it as source material to foster his own golden down group, as I see it anyone with the gumption to take on the task, can start up the A.'.A.'.
Success in this however is dependent upon many factors, one is finding students who will do the work, another is finding students who will not seek to by pass instruction by going straight to the source material in public domain.
Also, I was supplementing the official source material with, with information the particular student may find useful, like Carrolls Chaos magick, certain notions from Discordianism, and nuero-theology, General semantics, and the structure of the church of the Subgenius to name a few.
The ideal is to produce physiological and psychological states of being that correspond to the grade titles, not to convey social prestige or bragging rights to the title of a certain lineage.
I take ritual to be aimed at physical changes in the individual, not a set of political claims to prestige and authority. (a peasant can not hide his poverty)
When you say I do not represent a true lineage of the A.'.A.'. I take that as seriously as the Ivy league association of Tenured professors, who say "who cares if his equations are right or if he gets results, he is not acting on behalf of any respected lineage of tenured professors, he has no right to teach physics"
When I started along this path, the net was young, I liven far from any book stores, no I had no access to anything like the information now available. But even with what I had, it was alot to sort out. But if I had some orderly compiled information, broken into segments to help me advance in a steady pace I could have been saved alot of trauma, pitfalls, and red herrings.
Thus my hope is to guide initiates, so they do not get information overload or achieve unpleasant results they are not prepared for, thus preventing many from giving up, and perhaps enticing many who are turned off before they start.
I am still working on the system, but i am no longer with the SL A.'.A.'.
I was trying to fix it, I mean I was raised from student to magus in 3 weeks, so it was poorly formulated, but I could not find students worth of the system I use, they all dropped out, couldn't even keep a journal for 2 weeks.
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@Froclown said
"well, i was not giving any certificates, or the like.
I was simply working to present the official A.'.A.'. material, most of which is public domain, to initiates giving then the right texts, rituals and practices in the right order.
I asked them to keep a journal so that I could evaluate the effects of each assignment against their pre-assignment journals. Then I can apply a test of their skills or a proof that they attained the state or vision proper to that grade. Upon doing so, I would allow them to wear the title of that Grade, and give them the next assignments. "
Funny how students see themselves as teachers so easily.
"But just as anyone can pick up "The Golden Dawn" and use it as source material to foster his own golden down group, as I see it anyone with the gumption to take on the task, can start up the A.'.A.'. "
Certainly, but to claim you are A.'.A.'. or Golden Dawn would be ridiculous.
"Success in this however is dependent upon many factors, one is finding students who will do the work, another is finding students who will not seek to by pass instruction by going straight to the source material in public domain. "
You mean inquisitive and persistent students? Sounds like you are weeding out the right type of people...
"Also, I was supplementing the official source material with, with information the particular student may find useful, like Carrolls Chaos magick, certain notions from Discordianism, and nuero-theology, General semantics, and the structure of the church of the Subgenius to name a few. "
That actually sounds quite cool.
"The ideal is to produce physiological and psychological states of being that correspond to the grade titles, not to convey social prestige or bragging rights to the title of a certain lineage. "
That seemed to have been the intention all along yet people still wear them as badges and labels.
"I take ritual to be aimed at physical changes in the individual, not a set of political claims to prestige and authority. (a peasant can not hide his poverty) "
Rituals CAN be political I believe but they are not limited thereto.
"When you say I do not represent a true lineage of the A.'.A.'. I take that as seriously as the Ivy league association of Tenured professors, who say "who cares if his equations are right or if he gets results, he is not acting on behalf of any respected lineage of tenured professors, he has no right to teach physics""
And consequently no one pays attention to him. Credentials are everything in the academic world so its a little silly to compare to something where there is no objective measurement (spiritual attainment).
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I was trying to fix it, I mean I was raised from student to magus in 3 weeks, so it was poorly formulated, but I could not find students worth of the system I use, they all dropped out, couldn't even keep a journal for 2 weeks."Student to Magus in 3 weeks? That should be the trial period for the beginning of the Student period, if that. It also does no good to blame 100% fail rate on the students.
IAO131
