Thelema Tattoo

Jim Eshelman

BTW, here is one place where it is correctly oriented: rretac.org

Jonathan

why is the point up rose correct and point down rose incorrect? I have usually seen it point down..

is it just another reaction to the nox pentagram being "evil" or whatever or is there a specific occult principle used with the unicursal hexagram?

if so, what is the principle behind the "point down rose" in the hexagram as well?

also, wasn't it crowley that came up with the unicursal way of drawing the hexagram? I thought I read somewhere that he came up with it as a method to draw it in the hexagram ritual without lifting the wand/dagger from the symbol..

Jim Eshelman

@Jonathan said

"why is the point up rose correct and point down rose incorrect? I have usually seen it point down.."

It was first published in The Book of Thoth. When Crowley got his copy from the printer he wrote next to the picture an expletive and that they'd gotten it upside down.

"is it just another reaction to the nox pentagram being "evil" or whatever or is there a specific occult principle used with the unicursal hexagram?"

Crowley, who designed the particular artwork, wrote in his own handwriting that it was upside down. It seems worth knowing that.

"also, wasn't it crowley that came up with the unicursal way of drawing the hexagram? I thought I read somewhere that he came up with it as a method to draw it in the hexagram ritual without lifting the wand/dagger from the symbol.."

No, that's all fiction. It isn't even what he said in the book. Under the illustration on The Book of Thoth it says, "It has always been declared impossible to draw an Unicursal Hexagram; but this has now been accomplished." He seems to have been willing to let the reader think he'd just discovered it - but the "now" in "now been accomplished" dates back to 1888 or soon after, since it is included in an original Golden Dawn 4=7 paper.

As a single hexagram for the ritual, it is used only for the Sun (or, arguably, and in my experience effectively, for the Moon). The other planets are not assigned to its points. The Sun is the top point, the Moon the bottom. Spirit is the center, and the four Elements are deployed around the remaining points as on the Pentagram etc.

Jonathan

awesome! although i still wonder the differences in energy between the point up and point down rose.. hehe

so, would you not use a unicursal hexagram in the Hexagram ritual if invoking certain planetary energies, but use the tradition Hexagram (Hexagram of Solomon?) being two triangles united when using it for Planetary workings?

When would you use the unicursal? Would you then use it to banish/invoke certain elemental energies and why would you chose to use a hexagram in that context rather than a pentagram?

Thanks for the reply Jim.

~jonathan

Jim Eshelman

@Jonathan said

"awesome! although i still wonder the differences in energy between the point up and point down rose.. hehe"

I think the point is that it's a pentagram.

"so, would you not use a unicursal hexagram in the Hexagram ritual if invoking certain planetary energies, but use the tradition Hexagram (Hexagram of Solomon?) being two triangles united when using it for Planetary workings?"

Correct. Usually the Earth form, sometimes one of the other elemental forms.

"When would you use the unicursal?"

The main use is that it's the hexagram of the Sun (and, as such, replaces the six-hexagram form of the G.D. system). Start at the top point, and go clockwise (toward the lower right, hitting the masculine elements in the sequence Fire then Air) to invoke, or go the opposite direction to banish.

"Would you then use it to banish/invoke certain elemental energies"

I would not use it in the Lesser Banishing Hexagram Ritual, no. And it has never seemed right to use it for Elemental purposes per se. I think the Elemental attributions primarily balance and propel the other uses of the hexagram.

Jonathan

Thanks Jim!

Andie

...After musing upon something that could be called a Thelemic symbol, I decided that if I were to get inked with one, I'd get the symbol of the Sun to symbolize the Stellar nature of Thelema, as well as the circumference of the circle with the "dot" in the center referral to Nuit and Hadit.

Or maybe a pent with a red circle in the middle...?

I don't think I'll have any inking done any time soon, though. The piercing I got last is infected and that's enough to deal with.

Rey De Lupos

Sophia LVX wrote:

"Maybe you should get a tattoo of a symbol that has meaning for you as you continue your study? To me a very personalized symbol might be most "Thelemic". I myself have an ankh among others and am designing an octagram tattoo. Perhaps as you introspect and learn more about magick you will be drawn to a certain symbol."

Pure wisdom.

I think a truly *'thelemic' *emblem would be unique to the 'star' [personality] for who is to bear it. A symbol of one's true will might be appropriate given that time of awareness.

But, as many of my friends who embrace the thelemic path have suggested in their own tattooing, is that they needed inspiration for the Work and it was this daily reminder upon their flesh that aided them.

I think in that instance, a symbol that one GROKS with through study of the various symbols related to this Work might be a good avenue for exploration.

noctivagus

@jw said

"Symbol of the Beast from Liber Oz?

Rock out with your cock out! "

I got a lot of tattoos and I have been thinking about to make the sign of the beast on my chest I have been dreaming about it for a long time. But some may think it a bit out there to do it

Anchorite

@noctivagus said

"

I got a lot of tattoos and I have been thinking about to make the sign of the beast on my chest I have been dreaming about it for a long time. But some may think it a bit out there to do it "

Didn't Jim mention that the sun/moon /genitalia symbol was not the Mark of the Beast but rather Crowley's 'To Mega Therion' glyph instead?
I may be misremembering and didn't ask at the time but what would be the Mark of the Beast in that case?

noctivagus

@Anchorite said

"
@noctivagus said
"

Didn't Jim mention that the sun/moon /genitalia symbol was not the Mark of the Beast but rather Crowley's 'To Mega Therion' glyph instead?
I may be misremembering and didn't ask at the time but what would be the Mark of the Beast in that case?"
"

Ah sorry think it's mark I think. I might mixing things up. But where did he mention it? I would like to read some more about it.

Vegan_Cannibal

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/99dca8ba62.jpg">www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/99dca8ba62.jpg</a>

is mine

Oliver P

@jw. said

"Symbol of the Beast from Liber Oz?

Rock out with your cock out! "

Might the A A sigil with the seven pointed "Babalon" star, the Theta and the 7s and 77s be considered the (or at any rate a) "Thelemic symbol"?

A TV children's show host here in NZ many years ago appeared in a sweatshirt featuring that symbol, with the word JOY overlaying it - the O as the theta I wrote her a mischievous letter in a very disapproving tone, explaining its significance and giving her a bit of background on Crowley.

She took it completely seriously and phoned me to apologise She'd apparently picked it up at a market stall in complete ignorance of its associations. "Joy" she told me, was the name of the company that made them. Debasement of its signigficance? Possible copyright infringement?

I don't think she'd had any genuine complaints from any of the kids' parents - but then they probably weren't watching.

It's a good thing it wasn't the "Sun, Moon and balls dependent" That went over my head the first time I saw it.

OP

Jim Eshelman

@Oliver P said

"Might the A A sigil with the seven pointed "Babalon" star, the Theta and the 7s and 77s be considered the (or at any rate a) "Thelemic symbol"?"

Hard to see why this would be so since the A.'.A.'. (in its larger sense, which this symbol represents) preexists the Aeon of Horus.

BTW, that's not a theta. As its surface meaning, it's a vessica divided into two halves. The origin of it is two parentheses and the horizontal bar of a fraction in the formula 77+(7+7)/7 +77.

Oliver P

@Froclown said

"Hmm. maybe just the world Thelema in Greek."

"LOVE" on one set of knuckles and "WILL" on the other?

OP

Oliver P

@Jim Eshelman said

"BTW, that's not a theta. As its surface meaning, it's a vessica divided into two halves. The origin of it is two parentheses and the horizontal bar of a fraction in the formula 77+(7+7)/7 +77."

Ah, I see. I'd always seen theta as at least one of its meanings; thought it stood for "Thelema".

Thanks for the clarification. You learn something new every day in this place.

Two things: I didn't realise "Babalon" was Enochian. and presumably as old as Dee.

OP

Jim Eshelman

Here's a good copy for closer inspection:

http://ordoaa.org/images/aaseal1.jpg

The interior is based on this:

.................. 7+7
....... 77 + ( ----- ) + 77
.................... 7

Seven 7s arranged in an equation that equals 156.

Modest

But why is the septagram point down? What does it mean i.e. point down? I didn't find an answer in GD polygons paper.

Jim Eshelman

@Modes said

"But why is the septagram point down? What does it mean i.e. point down? I didn't find an answer in GD polygons paper."

No, you don't.

One such geometrics, a convention arose at some point in time whereby a single point upright gives a masculine characteristic to the figure, and two points upright gives a feminine turn. (Yes, it's "his one thing sticking up" vs. "her legs in the air.")

This didn't start with Crowley - notice the chief symbol of the Order of the Eastern Star which is what most would call an "averse pentagram," but which this Bible-based women's auxiliary surely doesn't regard as a demonic symbol. It's just one way to express the female version.

Oliver P

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@Modes said
"But why is the septagram point down? What does it mean i.e. point down? I didn't find an answer in GD polygons paper."

No, you don't.

One such geometrics, a convention arose at some point in time whereby a single point upright gives a masculine characteristic to the figure, and two points upright gives a feminine turn. (Yes, it's "his one thing sticking up" vs. "her legs in the air.")

This didn't start with Crowley - notice the chief symbol of the Order of the Eastern Star which is what most would call an "averse pentagram," but which this Bible-based women's auxiliary surely doesn't regard as a demonic symbol. It's just one way to express the female version."

I've often been vaguely worried by the use of the "averse pentagram" by a number of police forces. Thanks for the reassurance, Jim. I'm not sure cops I know would take kindly to the idea that it's a "feminine" symbol.

"Police! Legs in the air!"

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3653/victorianpolicewf7.jpg

"It's not the ears; the goat is obviously wearing a broad-brimmed straw hat. It suits him" - friend of my daughter (I wish I still had her drawing of it).

http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/Y/J/1/wirthsigil.jpg

OP