Water hexagram the BRH and when to use the IRH & LIRP
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Do What Thou Wilt Shall be the Whole of the Law
Please excuse me for adding this into a seperate thread but I feel my previous thread became entangled with too many separate concepts and questions.
I have, as many have no doubt have also noticed, there are two versions of the banishing water hexagram published.
I used to draw the uppermost triangle first from center to top right and was left with a very rewarding balancing and energizing result afterwards. Perfect for asana and pranayama.I however after reading another 'respected' author's opinions that one should start with the lower triangle first, beginning from * middle to bottom left *.
I used this for a week - the results? Absent mindedness, dissociation, suicidal feelings and almost ungovernable feelings of obsession for a certain female. This is leading me to believe I have been banishing all other planetary/universal elements but Invoking water on a cosmic scale.Is this anything one could relate to?
Am I doing it right and adjusting to the universal love /depressive currents that are then therefore affecting me badly due to strong emotions being my personal Achilles heel? Or do I need a big hit with the zen stick?
My second question is , when and why would one ever use the Invoking Ritual of the Hexagram? Is it part of more advanced HGA work? And what would be he correct water hexagram invocation?
My third question touches on a similar vein:
When and for what purpose would one perform the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram? I understand how complex the LBRP is and have read much of Crowley's and others work on the subject but little if anything is published on the purpose and reason of the INVOKING Lesser pentagram/hexagram rituals.
One last question for now (thank you so much for following thus far)
I've read that obsession is a major test for the probationer. It certainly has been with me - obsessed with finding a malkuthian female anima.
Is there any way out of this horrendous pubescent reincarnation ? ( In other words I am reliving being 13 again)
I suspect that the 1st Chapter of Liber AL vel Legis "if the ritual be not ever unto me: then expect the direful judgments of Ra Hoor Khuit!" has something to do with it . Also possibly the lust and adoration of the HGA starts here in earnest and one needs to learn the control and direction of this obsessive love.
Or y'know I could just be crazy...Love is the Law
Love Under Will -
@Anchorite said
"I have, as many have no doubt have also noticed, there are two versions of the banishing water hexagram published."
There are some errors published here and there. The rule is simple, though: Always start with the Saturn point. (This presumes you are doing the generic or Lesser ritual, rather than something planet-specific.) In the case of the Water form, that means starting at the center and drawing the lower triangle first, then returning to the center (which is now also the lunar point) and drawing the upper. See Liber O ordoaa.org/pdf/l006.pdf
"I used to draw the uppermost triangle first from center to top right and was left with a very rewarding balancing and energizing result afterwards. Perfect for asana and pranayama."
Are you drawing only the Water hexagram, or is this part of doing the whole LRH? What you are describing is the Water form of the lunar hexagram. There's no reason not to use that for a particular purpose in isolation - but it would be incorrect to add this one lunar hexagram into the LRH along with three other Saturn hexagrams.
"My second question is , when and why would one ever use the Invoking Ritual of the Hexagram? Is it part of more advanced HGA work? And what would be he correct water hexagram invocation?"
It's not necessarily part of the HGA work - and, in any case, it's used long before that. Specifically, the invoking Hexagram Ritual is used to invoke planetary and zodiacal energies; or, in the generic form, it's a somewhat advanced "personal growth ritual" in the same broad category as the Pentagram Ritual. In the G.D. it wasn't introduced until the Second Order because it's opening formulae are specifically tied in to the G.D. 5=6 ritual; but in A.'.A.'. it is shown in Probationer 0=0 and used extensively (as part of planetary invocations) in 1=10.
"When and for what purpose would one perform the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram?"
Most people, after several weeks or a few months of practicing the banishing only, will do an invoking and a banishing daily. There is some debate over which end of the day to do which (if you do one in the evening and one in the morning), and that's a long essay I think I wrote in this forum somewhere in the past - and too long for me to write before heading out the door in a few minutes. The key, I think, is to observe the effect of each on you. Personally, doing an Invoking Pentagram and then hopping on a city bus is a fantastic way to discover just how vulnerable my aura can be! LOL
"I've read that obsession is a major test for the probationer. It certainly has been with me - obsessed with finding a malkuthian female anima."
That's not a Probationer ordeal. (That is, it's not one distinctly and generally observed in Probationers overall, though a given Probationer may have darn near any ordeal.) I think you're talking about the Lilith ordeal of the Neophyte.
"Is there any way out of this horrendous pubescent reincarnation ? ( In other words I am reliving being 13 again)"
If you're a Probationer, you should discuss this with your Neophyte. That's what they're there for.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
@Jim Eshelman said
"There are some errors published here and there. The rule is simple, though: Always start with the Saturn point. (This presumes you are doing the generic or Lesser ritual, rather than something planet-specific.) In the case of the Water form, that means starting at the center and drawing the lower triangle first, then returning to the center (which is now also the lunar point) and drawing the upper. See Liber O ordoaa.org/pdf/l006.pdf "
Yes, I am doing the generic Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram followed by the Lesser Banishing Ritual of he Hexagram as daily work in prelude to asana/pranayama. I have not as yet used the Greater Invoking ritual with its planetary hexagrams.I Have also not used the invoking forms of the LIRH.
I have noticed in the link you kindly sent that all the invoking paired triangles are drawn with both
a. The upper triangle first with the exception of the water hexagram where the lower triangle is drawn first.
b. both triangles are drawn clockwise
As you obviously notice the invoking water hexagram *starts from a center point and then down to bottom right across to left and back to center, then the top,pst triangle is drawn from the middle to- top left as we look at it (or cast it) * where all the other invoking triangles start AT center top.
I am not quite sure why that should be.The diagrams given in your link are not identical to say- DM Kraigs Modern Magick and others but are consistent with the DuQuette (re?)published material.(I'm not starting any kind of contest here I hope.Yet I am aware you do like to reveal blinds that other authors make)
Still, I haven't used the invoking and I was merely clarifying the differences within the context of the link you sent me.
By the link you provided Jim wherein it says that The Banishing Ritual is identical, save that the
direction of the Hexagrams must be reversed. it would make sense to me to cast the banishing form of the water hexagram (or paired triangles) in this way -
Start at the middle and cast to bottom left then to right and back to center completing the lower triangle first. Then one would move on from the center to top right - on to top left and finally back to middle making the paired hexagrams."I used to draw the uppermost triangle first from center to top right and was left with a very rewarding balancing and energizing result afterwards. Perfect for asana and pranayama."
@Jim Eshelman said
"
Are you drawing only the Water hexagram, or is this part of doing the whole LRH? What you are describing is the Water form of the lunar hexagram. There's no reason not to use that for a particular purpose in isolation - but it would be incorrect to add this one lunar hexagram into the LRH along with three other Saturn hexagrams."No , this was solely the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Hexagram, which according to that link, Du Quette and Crowley and you I have been drawing incorrectly. I was casting the UPPER triangle first in a counterclockwise manner. Ironically it seems the wrong way of casting indeed banished these intense emotions and the version I have been having an ordeal with is the correct banishing form. I'll have to meditate on THAT one.I'm sure there is some reason for this to be so.
@Jim Eshelman said
"
It's not necessarily part of the HGA work - and, in any case, it's used long before that. Specifically, the invoking Hexagram Ritual is used to invoke planetary and zodiacal energies; or, in the generic form, it's a somewhat advanced "personal growth ritual" in the same broad category as the Pentagram Ritual. In the G.D. it wasn't introduced until the Second Order because it's opening formulae are specifically tied in to the G.D. 5=6 ritual; but in A.'.A.'. it is shown in Probationer 0=0 and used extensively (as part of planetary invocations) in 1=10."Ah I see. I'm working every so often on the SIRP both as a whole and as a way to get in touch with one particular element (banishing afterwards ) I think I see the planetary /zodiacal/macrocosmic element as a natural progression from this.
"When and for what purpose would one perform the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram?"
@Jim Eshelman said
"somewhere in the past - and too long for me to write before heading out the door in a few minutes. The key, I think, is to observe the effect of each on you. Personally, doing an Invoking Pentagram and then hopping on a city bus is a fantastic way to discover just how vulnerable my aura can be! LOL"
I will have a look for this post
I think it would explain a lot. As I mentioned, so much has been written about the LBRP and it's complexity and as far as I can tell nothing published about what the LIRP does or effects it has on you. I guess I'll **not **try it when I'm attending a sports event first off "I've read that obsession is a major test for the probationer. It certainly has been with me - obsessed with finding a malkuthian female anima."
@Jim Eshelman said
"
That's not a Probationer ordeal. (That is, it's not one distinctly and generally observed in Probationers overall, though a given Probationer may have darn near any ordeal.) I think you're talking about the Lilith ordeal of the Neophyte.
If you're a Probationer, you should discuss this with your Neophyte. That's what they're there for."Well... I'm flying solo and have had many 'paths' in the past. This particular issue reared it's head after intensive training with a coven for a couple of years. I'd written you a potted history of my 'paths' to date and I only read the other day that you try desperately to ignore PM's.
Ah well it's in there if you should care to take a look. I would dearly love to know what grade I am - of course that doesn't mean a damn to my ego, just as to what forces I may have activated through improper training and knowledge and indeed proper training. Hence why I decided once and for all to get back to this system and do it.Many thanks for all your much valued help.
Love is the Law,
Love under Will. -
@Anchorite said
" I have noticed in the link you kindly sent that all the invoking paired triangles are drawn with both
a. The upper triangle first with the exception of the water hexagram where the lower triangle is drawn first."All four forms are variations of the Earth form and derive their points from that. In the Fire and Air variations, the upper triangle is the same as the upper triangle of the Earth form. But in the Water form, the "fire" triangle is the lower one, and that's still the one that has the Saturn, Jupiter, and Mars attributions (i.e., it's the one corresponding to the single-point-up hexagram of the Earth variant).
So, in all cases, you are starting from the Saturn (or Supernal) point. That's the generic for the hexagram.
"b. both triangles are drawn clockwise "
For invocation, yes. That's the Hexagram standard: Clockwise to invoke, counter-clockwise to banish, the two triangles match.
"As you obviously notice the invoking water hexagram *starts from a center point and then down to bottom right across to left and back to center, then the top,pst triangle is drawn from the middle to- top left as we look at it (or cast it) * where all the other invoking triangles start AT center top.
I am not quite sure why that should be."They all start from the Saturn point. In the case of the Water variant, the Saturn point (top point of the "fire" triangle) and Luna point (bottom point of the "water" triangle) coincide at the center.
"By the link you provided Jim wherein it says that The Banishing Ritual is identical, save that the direction of the Hexagrams must be reversed. it would make sense to me to cast the banishing form of the water hexagram (or paired triangles) in this way -
Start at the middle and cast to bottom left then to right and back to center completing the lower triangle first. Then one would move on from the center to top right - on to top left and finally back to middle making the paired hexagrams."Let me make it simple: The banishing form always starts at the same place as the invoking form, but you go in the opposite (counter-clockwise) direction.
"I used to draw the uppermost triangle first from center to top right and was left with a very rewarding balancing and energizing result afterwards. Perfect for asana and pranayama."
@Jim Eshelman said
"
Are you drawing only the Water hexagram, or is this part of doing the whole LRH? What you are describing is the Water form of the lunar hexagram. There's no reason not to use that for a particular purpose in isolation - but it would be incorrect to add this one lunar hexagram into the LRH along with three other Saturn hexagrams."No , this was solely the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Hexagram, which according to that link, Du Quette and Crowley and you I have been drawing incorrectly. I was casting the UPPER triangle first in a counterclockwise manner. Ironically it seems the wrong way of casting indeed banished these intense emotions and the version I have been having an ordeal with is the correct banishing form. I'll have to meditate on THAT one.I'm sure there is some reason for this to be so.
@Jim Eshelman said
"
It's not necessarily part of the HGA work - and, in any case, it's used long before that. Specifically, the invoking Hexagram Ritual is used to invoke planetary and zodiacal energies; or, in the generic form, it's a somewhat advanced "personal growth ritual" in the same broad category as the Pentagram Ritual. In the G.D. it wasn't introduced until the Second Order because it's opening formulae are specifically tied in to the G.D. 5=6 ritual; but in A.'.A.'. it is shown in Probationer 0=0 and used extensively (as part of planetary invocations) in 1=10."Ah I see. I'm working every so often on the SIRP both as a whole and as a way to get in touch with one particular element (banishing afterwards ) I think I see the planetary /zodiacal/macrocosmic element as a natural progression from this.
"When and for what purpose would one perform the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram?"
@Jim Eshelman said
"somewhere in the past - and too long for me to write before heading out the door in a few minutes. The key, I think, is to observe the effect of each on you. Personally, doing an Invoking Pentagram and then hopping on a city bus is a fantastic way to discover just how vulnerable my aura can be! LOL"
I will have a look for this post
I think it would explain a lot. As I mentioned, so much has been written about the LBRP and it's complexity and as far as I can tell nothing published about what the LIRP does or effects it has on you. I guess I'll **not **try it when I'm attending a sports event first off "I've read that obsession is a major test for the probationer. It certainly has been with me - obsessed with finding a malkuthian female anima."
@Jim Eshelman said
"
That's not a Probationer ordeal. (That is, it's not one distinctly and generally observed in Probationers overall, though a given Probationer may have darn near any ordeal.) I think you're talking about the Lilith ordeal of the Neophyte.
If you're a Probationer, you should discuss this with your Neophyte. That's what they're there for."Well... I'm flying solo and have had many 'paths' in the past. This particular issue reared it's head after intensive training with a coven for a couple of years. I'd written you a potted history of my 'paths' to date and I only read the other day that you try desperately to ignore PM's.
Ah well it's in there if you should care to take a look. I would dearly love to know what grade I am - of course that doesn't mean a damn to my ego, just as to what forces I may have activated through improper training and knowledge and indeed proper training. Hence why I decided once and for all to get back to this system and do it.Many thanks for all your much valued help.
Love is the Law,
Love under Will."