Egyptian Book of Dead as skrying map of consciousness
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Well, you answered the simple question with advice to study the tattwas, and study symbols of scrying.
How does that compare the Tibetan and Egyptian books of the dead?
chrys333 -
Sorry about the last posting. I see. The query was really about just scrying. It was never about the Books of the Dead and the soul's transition from mortal death to eternal existence and the similarities between the Egyptian version and the Tibetan one.
Got it. Was sidetracked.
chrys333 -
@Modes said
"You can skry every simbol and painting you imagine - at least in theory. Everything is in your brain... so you can use the pictures in EBD or TBD to investigate yourself as Regardie wrote. Read Regardie's Complete GD system of magic, On Skrying.
There are a lot of symbols in a lot of books to skry and expand your understanding. Just get the basic technique going with tattwas first.
It's a shame noone could answer this simple question."thankyou
Reagardie seems to be adamant that the realities described in the EBOD are THERE in the planes
anyway i no doubt should be experimenting for myself thanks and that is the crux of the matter
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In regards to the pylon's, it occurs in chapter CXLVI. It bears to mind something I had tried to crack long ago, regarding the pylons. I had thought about making a connection to the paths on the tree of life (22) but the pylons only go to 21. Needless to say it's a ponderous volume and Budge himself mentions that the translations of the pylons where "wanting". As the book itself often says, "What then is this?" If you have any success let us know.
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22 paths and 21 pylons?
maybe one path is rendered irrelevant somehow by dint of the body being deceased in this system and therefore an accurate correlation of attributions does indeed occurr . This cals to mind teh 7 planets 12 zodiacal signs and 4 elements added in tota are 23 yet they are said to neatly fit inot the 22 paths. this issolved when we minus the earth element from the equation as we are "already" in malkuth. Maybe this is erroneous ; just some thoughts
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Exactly. That is what I like about these forums. Now we are getting somewhere. You might be right about that, and I will have to ponder this more. If we did take out Malkuth, this could work. The Secret Knowledge of the Qabalah was derived from the Ancient Wisdom of the Initiated Magic of Egypt. It would seem then there is good cause to pursue this.
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you would have to omit a path so let's say you were dead. Which path would then be an irrelevance? Tav perhaps( the 32nd path)?
However isn't it right to point out that there is somewhat of a dichotomy between the 2 forms of skrying discussed? The Rising On The Planes exercise is not really a pre planed structured and specific ceremonial STUDY of any specific path (re G.D. 32 path skrying in which the entities are tested for their elemental integrity) is it? It (rising on planes) is an exercise of wild Body Of Light refinement and inner expansion; a explorative journey-adventure into, " what is" i.e. the fabric of the Upper Astral. What i'm trying to say is maybe the Egyptian priesthood performed/struggled with this exercise regularly and came to recognise the various stations or astral grooves and in time they documented these in their BOD. as teh Pylons/gods encountered
The analogy is Rising On The Planes is like the rocketeer flying/struggling onward towards the mountain peaks whereas G..D.- ceremonial 32 path- skrying is akin to someone taking a cable- ride to a specific pre planned location on that mountain and testing the integrity of the guide they meet there.
maybe there is no dichotomy ; just some thoughts
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that wasn't my main point
someone came in and suggested is theer a link between BOD and 32 paths and i gave him food for thougth so the thread went off on a tangent again.
The thread is about the Rising On The Planes and a statement Regardie made about how the content /entities of the BOD is/are intertwined in that exercise.
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@gerry456 said
"that wasn't my main point
someone came in and suggested is theer a link between BOD and 32 paths and i gave him food for thougth so the thread went off on a tangent again.
The thread is about the Rising On The Planes and a statement Regardie made about how the content /entities of the BOD is/are intertwined in that exercise."
Really? Your initial post read, "Are the descriptions vague or explicit? Is it religious veiled gobbledy gook or is it practical?" and so far it seems quite impractical.
IAO131
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i can't see how discusing a basic important Thelemic exercise (Rising On Planes) is impractical. This discussion is only impractical because noone's giving up the goods/details on their Rising On Planes experiences (that is their perogative) so we are not really getting anywhere with this thread yes i agree.
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@gerry456 said
"i can't see how discusing a basic important Thelemic exercise (Rising On Planes) is impractical."
I get frustrated seeing general occult practices referred to as Thelemic practices. There is nothing inherently Thelemic about this practice. It's generalizable across Thelemic and non-Thelemic schools.
"This discussion is only impractical because noone's giving up the goods/details on their Rising On Planes experiences (that is their perogative) so we are not really getting anywhere with this thread yes i agree."
I know of no way to do anything more than flittingly useful on that topic except one-on-one in-person teacher-to-pupil instruction.
Besides, have you actually asked about Rising on the Planes in general? I thought this thread was about mapping in the Book of Going Forth By Day. Were you asking more generally about Rising on the Planes, or were your questions about its relationship to one specific reference?
Also, before we get to Rising on the Planes, have you mastered general astral journeying?
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@gerry456 said
"i Besides, have you actually asked about Rising on the Planes in general? I thought this thread was about mapping in the Book of Going Forth By Day. ?"
"Well that's it ; it would seem that the 2 subjects are apparently one and the same according to Regardie. This thread is about a specific statement made by the revered Mr Regardie in his esteemed classic ,"The Tree Of Life" in the chapter 10 on "skrying and astral projection" and chapter 4 "The Astral Light" in which he advises study of the BOD as a way of familarizing ourselves intellectually with the visions to be encountered during Rising Planes exercise in which,as we know, the body of light strives further to the zenith and "sees" what is. . The 32 path skrying pathworking/tattva openings is/are a different exercise altogether.
@Jim Eshelman said
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@gerry456 said
"i
Also, before we get to Rising on the Planes, have you mastered general astral journeying?"
"777 vision verification?
no.
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@gerry456 said
"Well that's it ; it would seem that the 2 subjects are apparently one and the same according to Regardie."
Show me the quote... source, page number, the works. Having had several conversations with him on astral journeying, I'm certain he meant no such thing (even in the extreme youth when he wrote that particular book).
"This thread is about a specific statement made by the revered Mr Regardie in his esteemed classic, "The Tree Of Life" in the chapter 10 on "skrying and astral projection" and chapter 4 "The Astral Light" in which he advises study of the BOD as a way of familarizing ourselves intellectually with the visions to be encountered during Rising Planes exercise in which,as we know, the body of light strives further to the zenith and "sees" what is. The 32 path skrying pathworking/tattva openings is/are a different exercise altogether."
Please provide the exact quote, and perhaps also the edition, page number, etc. so that we can check that for ourselves.
It appears from what you've said in the paragraph above that, at most, he was recommending a way, not the way - a far cry from "one and the same."
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@gerry456 said
"Also, before we get to Rising on the Planes, have you mastered general astral journeying?"
"777 vision verification?
no."
Verification or no (though preferably with!
), I meant astral journeying per se. This is ideally well established before attempting Rising on the Planes. See, for example, Liber O, Cap. VI where Rising on the Planes is taught as a "graduate exercise" after the work of Cap. V.BTW, Liber O gives only the barest details. Though someone of real native talent for the subject may find this sufficient, it was generally expected that the Neophyte undertaking this work would have additional direct instruction.
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[it's a new 3rd edition i bought it the other week from online Amazon ; edited and annotated by Chic and Sandra Cicero. Llewellyn bookschapter 4 on The Astral Light pages 82
"(the astral light) was recognised quite clearly by the Egyptian Theurgists....no vague theories or descriptions . For we observe that every yard of the so called Upper and Lower worlds Amentet and the Tuat which are 2 aspects of the Astral Plane is carefully mapped out and it's qualities noted. Not only so but in some chapters of the BOD each sub division is decsribed with precision for the benefit of the deceased-- and incidentally for the Theurgist- together with the names of the guardians and watchers of the Pylons .............according to the BOD there are 7 Great Halls and 21 pylons givnig access to the celestial region. To each pylon. 2 guardians or watchers...each of the several regions of the Astral World,both gross and divine was mapped out with a precision which even today has no rival nor equal.
and.........later page 230 chapter 10 "skrying and astral projection"
*if the Egyptian BOD is consulted the reader will benefit considerably in knowledge for therein the Tuat and the Amentet ,the sub-divisions of the Astral Light ,have been the subject of close observation and precise classification. in the 2nd part of chapter CXXV .the God Osiris seen seated ..Hall of Maati.....42 assessors .......each of these 42 Gods represents some one of the nomes of Egypt and bears a symbolic magical name.........towering ingenuity of the Egyptian theurgic-priests who made correspndences between the planes of the Astral Light and the nomes or county divisions of the Upper and Lower Nile Counry .By carefully studying this and other chapters (of ther BOD) the Theurgist will glean much useful information concerning the Astral Light and the Guardians of the keepers of the Pylons through which he must pass in his self initiation. ..........Although the BOD represents these Pylons through which deceased must pass on his way to rest in Amentet they are also applicable to the Gates through which the skryer in spirit vision must enter. They should not be considered fictions these guarded gates .......the body of light must be purified ..........to gain admisson from the Angel guardians with flaming swords to the sacred Pylons and the inner gates *
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Gerry, thanks. That clarifies much for me.
As you can see on careful reading, there is no mention of Rising on the Planes at all. In terms of normal astral journeying, there is the implication (and, actually, explication) that the realms of EBOD are objective. I certainly find them seeming objective and, from what else I know of other post-mortem realities, I think this was built up by specific use.
Maps of this kind are especially useful for ritual construction. Steve is right that Crowley used these exact maps for some of his annotations of the A.'.A.'. 1=10 initiation (Liber 671) and for the actual form and content of the 2=9 initiation (Liber 120 which is a ritualized passage through the Duat). From an Egyptian priest point of view (and consistent with what Regardie has written here), the technique would have been to use The Book of Coming Forth by Day (the proper name of the EBOD) for a series of guided meditations to train the psyche to lay-in these exact patterns, know the names of the gates and guardians, etc., so that, whether in the deeper levels of personal initiation or in the experience of death, one could follow that specific path smoothly and unhesitantly.
But that's different from saying that it would map to spontaneous vision or the usual Qabalistic astral vision of someone who wasn't specifically trained in the old Egyptian religion and who didn't live in the ancient Egyptian culture.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Gerry, thanks. That clarifies much for me.
As you can see on careful reading, there is no mention of Rising on the Planes at all. In terms of normal astral journeying, there is the implication (and, actually, explication) that the realms of EBOD are objective. I certainly find them seeming objective and, from what else I know of other post-mortem realities, I think this was built up by specific use.
."
Jim i disagree
maybe i omitted important pages before the description in the 2nd paragraph in chapter 10
page 223 is the beginnign of the description of Rising On The Planes as being a fundamental magic practice then page 226 is about symbol testing on the astral then page 228/229 are about 777 and then astral precautions and then come the passages i quoted about the Amentet and Tuat as astral/nome maps on page 230
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Whatever.
I asked you to provide the exact quotes. You provided quotes, and I responded to what you provided.
I really think you haven't understood what you have read and/or are trying to make it say something it doesn't.
In any case, the rest of my answer above should probably answer your underlying question - at least, if I've understood your underlying question.
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maybe
i'll look into it
if you consult the relevant chapters as a whole in TOL i.e. chapters 4 and 10 then you can see for yourself
either way thanks for input
here's another statement from Regardie
page 84 TOL "in another portion of this book (BOD) the names of the heralds and doorkeepers,together with the formulae of practical magic by which they may be overcome and an entry effected to the Island Of Truth, are given a some length."
however these "portions" are not specifically referenced.