Vasectomy and Magick
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@ar said
"I was wondering if anyone has an opinion of the what if any change in the effectiveness of semen as a Magical fluid happens as a result of a vasectomy. Is there any? Does the absence of semen in the seminal fluid render it useless?"
Crowley felt that the sperm cells were the living magical agent.
I think that's part of it, but not all of it.
I recommend very extensive experimentation.
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In my experience, with performing the Mass of the Holy Ghost, it is not necessarily the 'Semen' that we are looking for, but the refined 'post' Seminal fluid...the clear substance that is like dew. It is just as effective now (Post Vasectomy) as it was before...If not more effective!
This is the elixir that one is looking for. Whether it be to ingest, or used for Talismanic purposes.
We are also looking for the heightened state of consciousness during the Climax to cast ones enchantment so to speak.
This of course is my own personal opinion, and as Jim has stated, I think it be best to perform experiments of your own to ascertain what is effective for you.
93 93/93.'.
Kohen ha-Gadhol
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@ar said
"I was wondering if anyone has an opinion of the what if any change in the effectiveness of semen as a Magical fluid happens as a result of a vasectomy. Is there any? Does the absence of semen in the seminal fluid render it useless?
Dan"
93
And here I thought I was the only one thinking about this same exact issue. I have been considering this for many months. Dan thanks for the start of what I hope shall be a good thread. I haven't had a vasectomy so I am afraid I do not have much to offer. I do look forward to hearing more replies. It is nice that we actually have a place to put forward these questions.
93 93/93 -
Food for thought: From what I know of vasectomies, there generally is still some sperm in the semen but the sperm counts is so low that the man is considered infertile. So, all might not be lost in the idea of the sperm being the carrier of the magick power or whatnot. There's also the idea that you're still a man and it's moreof the energy that you bring to the rite, rather than the sperm/semen specifically.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Nice post, and timely. I am very probably going to have this procedure. Please post results of experiments, if any!
BTW - if the 2 cut ends of the vas deferens do not rejoin (considered a failed proceedure) then there is NO sperm in the ejaculate after about 2 -3 months after the procedure.
Love is the law, love under will.
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93
i'm new here, & it may be the wrong place for it, but reading this thread made me curious...
has anyone done any work with taoist or tantric methods of seminal retention? i'm thinking mainly of mantak chia's books, which i've read, though not yet worked on. anyhow, he claims seminal retention is an effective method of birth control. anyone?
i also seem to recall reading, i think in svoboda's aghora II: kundalini, that one must be virile or potent to raise the kundalini. made me wonder about how vasectomy would affect practice.
i don't have either book with me (in storage) so i can't refresh my memory on this stuff...please correct if wrong.
any ideas? would be especially interesting to hear from people who have done some work with these techniques. if there are any takers, perhaps a mantak chia thread? (or is there one already that i've not stumbled across yet?)93 93/93
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@he_jones2323 said
"anyhow, he claims seminal retention is an effective method of birth control. anyone?"
Not true! Many a pregnancy has arisen from, "But I didn't cum!" It's as much a young man's fiction as "blue balls."
Preseminal fluid has sperm cells in it - sometimes enough to impregnate an egg. The only "sex with seminal retention" that is effective for birth control is to retain it inside a condom. (Alternately, you can retain your penis inside your pants.
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oh, i understand that. it was simply chia's claim, & i have no experience with the techniques.
has anyone worked with this stuff? perhaps i should be posting this elsewhere?
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@he_jones2323 said
"oh, i understand that."
Oh. then why did you ask for opinions on it?
You'll probably find that Thelemites are more likely to have worked with those forms of sexual disciplines that are quite the opposite of seminal retention.
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point taken (& seems obvious now).
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@he_jones2323 said
"It's as much a young man's fiction as "blue balls.""
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I don't know if there is some myth about the term blue balls that I don't know about but in the area of the country I live in most people refer to having blue balls when they "fool around" with a lady and do not reach the release of orgasm. They later experience pain, sometimes extreme, in their genitals.
Not being one to push the young ladies for sexual intercourse I once dated a lady that very much enjoyed long make out sessions that never ended in the completion of the sex act. I would drop her off at home and she would get out of the vehicle feeling alive, thrilled and energized from what she felt was a wonderful date. By the time I finished driving home (about 30 minutes later) I couldn't even get out of the vehicle without holding my breath because the cramps and the pain was so bad in my testes.
The pain was not "fiction", and I normally referred to that pain as having "blue balls", perhaps incorrectly. Eventually I had to tell the young lady that I couldn't continue going out on these sorts of dates that ended in her glee and my misery. I understand that it may sound like a tactic to pressure her for sex, but it was actually just an effort to be honest with her. For me "blue balls" were a very real thing, but I only experienced it when I was highly aroused and being sexual for about 2 hours or more and then had no sexual release and then a loss of sexual arousal.
That is my personal experience anyway. -
frater pantha,
gosh if that doesn't sound like sexual vampirism, I don't know what does.