The "Supreme Secret" of th O.T.O.
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Crowley described the Ninth Degree sex-magical technique as the Supreme Secret of the O.T.O. He considered that this technique, when properly understood and developed, could be used to create anything which could be envisaged.
Looking at Crowley's life, it's difficult to recognose the fruits of this technique. Being almost permanently on the edge of destitution, many of his Operations were quite understandably for money. In his introduction to the Level Press edition of De Arte Magica, Gerald Yorke describes how small amounts of money would arrive when most needed, never in vast amounts but enough to keep the wolf from the door for a while. However, he doesn't seem to have had much real success with the technique, however straightforward the theory.
In section VII of De Arte Magica, some interesting light on the efficacy of this technique is shed:
We have marked subtly and regularly, the conditions and results of divers Workings of the Art, and this is the marvel now the Result follows swift and perfect, now again a group of lesser Results sympathetic to the Results willed, now but slight movements imitative of that Result, and now not only perfect failure, but the sudden reversal of all hopes in despair and ruin.
Crowley follows this with an example:
In the concrete, suppose that one worketh this Art to obtain a great sum. Then at one time that sum will arrive that same night or within (say) 48 hours after, or an event occur involving the gain of that sum; at another time there will merely arise a group of circumstances favourable; at another time a lesser sum will arrive; but also these may be reversed, in the worst case the loss of the sum proposed or the occurrence of an event which might involve that loss, or at least disappoint some reasonable expectation of that gain.
In other words: it might work, it might work a bit, it might not work at all, it might have the opposite effect of that intended. Using this gun you might hit the target, miss the target, or it might blow up in your hands. Hmmm.
There have long been traditions of sexual magic and mysticism in East and West. Indian and Tibetan Tantra are well known. The West has long had its own traditions, explored in an interesting book Why Mrs Blake Cried by Marsha Keith Schuchard, subtitled 'William Blake and the Sexual Basis of Spiritual Vision'.
These traditions seem to have used sexual magic/mysticism as a means of worship, or for stimulating creative vision. I wonder though if the use of the same thing for what might be termed 'results magic' is or can be efficacious; perhaps it's just not amenable to such use.
The "Supreme Secret", then, may be more a chimera than anything else. Perhaps in this respect the O.T.O. technique is something of a blind alley.
Best wishes,
Michael.
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No, the Supreme Secret is that while everyone else is fixating on the Supreme Secret and its efficaciousness, somebody is getting laid. A lot.
I've said this before on Lashtal but I regard the 9th degree = Supreme Secret to be a red herring. The Supreme Secret lies with Baphomet. DWTWSBTWOTL!
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@Michael Staley said
"In other words: it might work, it might work a bit, it might not work at all, it might have the opposite effect of that intended. Using this gun you might hit the target, miss the target, or it might blow up in your hands. Hmmm."
Hmm, when you put it this way, it looks actually like there's no causal efficacy at all, with results being completely random. The only thing against this point would be that if the "reversal" effects really are somehow a genuine negative of the desired effect - that would pin it down and make it seem less chancey. But wrt to money, one's fortunes usually go up and down a fair bit anyway, so it's hard to see how that could be a proper test.
This kind of thing is why I find it hard to believe that magick is anything other than daydreaming or Confirmation Bias. I am a firm believer in the truth and validity of mystical results, but when it comes to magick, all I see is people like Crowley wasting their lives following the random whims of their unconscious.
Maybe
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@h2h said
"No, the Supreme Secret is that while everyone else is fixating on the Supreme Secret and its efficaciousness, somebody is getting laid. A lot.
I've said this before on Lashtal but I regard the 9th degree = Supreme Secret to be a red herring. The Supreme Secret lies with Baphomet. DWTWSBTWOTL!"
Ever thought that it might be a physical symbol of that?
IAO131
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No, because everyone insists on the 9th degree because AC says so. You're already lost when you take things on faith of another man.
Yes, the 9th degree can be a physical symbol of the Supreme Secret. But it's not the Secret. You'll get to it faster by researching the initiation system of the Assassins.
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@Michael Staley said
"The "Supreme Secret", then, may be more a chimera than anything else."
I've had a wild thought running through the back of my brain for a while:
What if the use of a "real person" as the partner is the problem? Maybe the optimal use of this technology is to do it with one's HGA...?
Could this be why Crowley said that only the 5=6 Within can be admitted to the full practice of the formula of the Rosy Cross??Steve
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@RifRaf said
"The true secret is....
George Bush hates black people."
You go, Kanye...
Cranny: Unless your HGA emits fluids, it would be hard to do with them.
IAO131
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H2H...I think you nailed it
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Just so everyone understands my administrative view on this post...
My opinion is that the post is ill-placed and bordering on off-topic. This forum has nothing to do with O.T.O., so something framed in terms of specific O.T.O. matters seems somewhere between bad taste and O.T.
However, when I read it early this morning, I concluded it didn't actually violate anyone's proprietary rights or reveal any honestly obligated material. It doesn't break any actual rule for the forum. Therefore, I left it.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"My opinion is that the post is ill-placed and bordering on off-topic. This forum has nothing to do with O.T.O., so something framed in terms of specific O.T.O. matters seems somewhere between bad taste and O.T."
I realise that O.T.O. matters have no place on this forum. The reference is only in passing, since the technique under discussion is described as the "supreme secret" of that august body. As for "ill-placed" and "bordering off-topic", yes this post might equally have been nestling in the 'Mysticism' or 'Magick' forums; I'll give more thought to the placing of posts in the future.
That clarified, we can return to the discussion.
Best wishes,
Michael.
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To be clear - I didn't mean OT based on where you posted it, but rather than any discussion of something distinctly O.T.O. is likely off-topic to any location on this forum.
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h2h
Do you know the secret of which you speak?
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Regarding the "reversal effect," and without addressing the secret of any O.T.O. degree per se...
Look around in another forum here for my recent remarks on money spells in general. It's a bad basis for evaluating any technique.
Second, on the reversal issue itself, consider the published "penalty clause" of the Golden Dawn 5=6 oath. (If you're interested enough, you either know it or can easily look it up.) I suggest this saying only that it is not an irrelevant remark.
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@666 said
""The supreme secret of the O.T.O. is[...]written plainly in Liber CCCXXXIII, Cap. XXXVI(The Star Sapphire)." - De Arte Magica, Cap. I"
...can anyone say "cream pie snow ball"?
@Jim Eshelman said
"To be clear - I didn't mean OT based on where you posted it, but rather than any discussion of something distinctly O.T.O. is likely off-topic to any location on this forum."
What about the instance of the 'Supreme Secret' of the O.T.O. being written plainly in an A.'.A.'. document? Is The Star Sapphire open for candid discussion in reference to A.'.A.'. rather than O.T.O.?
616
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@Parzival said
"h2h
Do you know the secret of which you speak?"
Parzival,
Any answer I give would only mislead. That noted, I would like to amend an earlier remark:
You're already lost when you take things on faith of another man.
And state:
*You’re *not there yet ** if you take things on faith of another man.
solve et coagula,
h2h -
@KRVB MMShCh said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"To be clear - I didn't mean OT based on where you posted it, but rather than any discussion of something distinctly O.T.O. is likely off-topic to any location on this forum."What about the instance of the 'Supreme Secret' of the O.T.O. being written plainly in an A.'.A.'. document?"
If that were true then there would no read even to mention O.T.O. or its proprietary secrets, right?
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@Jim Eshelman said
"If that were true then there would no read even to mention O.T.O. or its proprietary secrets, right?"
...an oath of secrecy is one thing, but proprietary knowledge!?
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@Lapis said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"If that were true then there would no read even to mention O.T.O. or its proprietary secrets, right?"...an oath of secrecy is one thing, but proprietary knowledge!?
"Yes, I regard their specific teachings and formal instruction as their property.
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93 all.
I am more interested in the 11th degree work involving Kalas, outside of the male body. (Not the Homosexual version of the Caliphate, but that of the Typhonian).
Michael, can you elaborate on this? Perhaps we can discuss some pros and cons to these workings.
I feel that the tincture of the 9th degree "secret" is not all there is too it.
Just thought I would bring this up to make things a bit more interesting,
With best regards.93 93/93.'.
Shachdar
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@Michael Staley said
"Looking at Crowley's life, it's difficult to recognose the fruits of this technique. Being almost permanently on the edge of destitution, many of his Operations were quite understandably for money. "
Slightly off topic but I always found it funny that certain factions in the Thelemic and Occult communities push the idea that one must be successful financially to be a "true" adept etc. yadda yadda yadda and yet there supreme example is Al Crowley...