Vampirism & Thelema
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@sethur said
"Oh for goodness' sake, is anyone taking this stuff seriously?"
...my thoughts exactly
616
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@sethur said
"Oh for goodness' sake, is anyone taking this stuff seriously? The "Asetian Bible" - well, looked it up and surprise surprise, it's mainly discussed on sites dedicated to things like the Vampire - The Masquerade role playing game.
Goth is, like, so 5 minutes ago. Emo is kewl now. You can even grow a lawn using seeds of Emo grass. As it starts to grow, it cuts itself."
The Asetian Bible and Asetianism has nothing to do with any role playing game. -
I haven’t read the Asetian Bible but I find the notion of a hidden tradition of energy predators existing within the Egyptian system to be unlikely. Concepts like Maat, the psychostasis, 42 Negative Confessions and Ma Kheru are designed to eliminate deception. It seems more accurate that vampire enthusiasts are drawn to Egypt because the mortuary texts, rituals and elegant symbolism provide an ancient resource from which to create their personal mythos. This approach, along with the Da Vinci Code and Celestine Prophecy, does not interest me.
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93
I once knew a guy who tried to cut his own face off. On top of that, he was a zippie, not an emo.
The release of transmittor substances when you cut yourself can get you pretty high, you know, and since they are released into the blood system, drinking it will get you high as well.
Try drinking the blood of a zippie on regular saturday night out, all wired on speed and ecstacy, frenzieing about the dancefloor to 180 Bpm electronic music. Hows that for an addiction? Zippie Sanguine Suckery!
But thats not the kind vampirism in question.
When I speak of vampirism, its a verb, not an uncurable cosmic condition of soulless pranic predatory, or Zippie sucking for that matter. (For Nuits sake, if you want to warp your mind into believing you are some inhuman monster of damnation...)
Vampirism according to my book, is the act of stealing other peoples energy, either consciously or unconsciously, which can become a pathological condition.
Drunk middleaged women moaning about how no one loves them is a good example of vampiric activity. Avoid at all cost. Or sternly pour all their alcohol down the sink. Congratulations! You are now a vampire slayer.
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Such drama with this guy . . . he seems to have a very antiquated view of vampirism and is certainly over dramatic with everything. Both Psychic & Sanguinary vampires are really the same, it is a matter of preference.
Uni_Verse: Kemet predates the Greek civilization, Hermes is Thoth
Edward Mason: if you bothered to read any of the other book stores & reviews of the Asetian Bible (even the UK Amazon) there are unfavorable ones.
sethur & KRVB MMShCh; I take it serious, is there something wrong with that?
h2h: what do the 42 principles of Ma'at, the weighing of the heart and the incantations of the dead (Maa Kheru) have to do with whether the Asetians are real or not? I would read the book before I passed judgment .
If this sort of topic is not welcome here please let me know and I will refrain from posting about it.
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@Cliff Oth said
"I take it serious, is there something wrong with that?
"Do what thou wilt.
616
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Excuse me if I have come across rude and coarse, it is not my intentions.
Allow me to explain that the Asetians are the bloodline of Aset, the Kemetic Order of Aset Ka are a group (both Asetians & non-Asetians) that are loyal to Aset and study Thelema, traditional witchcraft, Persian, Babylonian and Sumerian sorcery, Qliphothic Qabalah, Luciferianism and Astral Vampirism.
I am an Asetianist, I am not in the Order (that would be an honor to me), I am not a vampire either.
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@Cliff Oth said
"Both Psychic & Sanguinary vampires are really the same, "
On that we agree, little else.
Fact: it is impossible for a human being to live on human blood. In spite of the psychological assumption, you would vomit before you could digest enough blood to satisfy nutritional needs.
Fact: the concept of a psychic vampire only goes back to the 19th century, when the word entered the English language and was then applied to people who drain you of energy. The idea of a secret Kemetic tradition is popular in certain circles, of course, and Egyptian hotel owners are probably charging money to initiate people into it as they did with the Order of Isis and Osiris and other scams, but it is ridiculous.
Fact: Aset is the Egyptian for Isis. What on Earth does she have to do with Vampirism?
Finally: Vampires originate from Hungarian/Romanian folklore. The term should be applied strictly to re-animated corpses that feed off the blood of the living. They do not, of course, exist, and modern concepts of them derive mostly from films, particularly the idea that they cannot abide daylight - they might use the night to snare victims but Ruthven (1817), Varney (1838-40), Carmilla (1873) and Dracula all walked around b y day. The idea that vampires turned others into vampires seems to originate with Varney, there is no hint at how Ruthven became a vampire. The idea that only some victims of vampires became vampires themselves (after the infection theory took hold with Dracula after microbes were realised to cause disease) appeared in a Hammer adaptation of Carmilla but only really took off with Anne Rice.
Our modern ideas of vampire powers derive from the relative budgets of the filmsand TV shows involved. Can they fly? Yes - when a bat (Dracula) yes (Salem's Lot) no (Anne Rice) yes (The Lost Boys) no (Blood Ties - the 1985 movie as well as the new TV series) yes (Forever Knight), no (Buffy).This is really silly. I'm just waiting for the Children of Cain stuff to emerge ..........
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93
Now, heres my problem: A man walks into a bar, sits down and sez:
"Doc, I think I might be a vampire..."Barman turns toward him: " I guess there is no hope then, you got no soul and you are stuck leeching of other peoples energy for all eternity. Its your nature. Dont you watch the discovery?"
The guy then believes himself to be a vampire,its now confirmed, stumbles out of the bar, and starts honing his vampire skills to perfection, even styling himself nosferatu, printing little annagrams for Child of Cain at the bottom of his business cards, and otherwise making a total fool of himself.
When instead, the barman could have looked him sternly in the eyes and exclaimed: "Neglect not thy dawn meditations!" which is agreeable, since there actually are measures that can be taken.
Thats my issue.
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@sethur said
"
@Cliff Oth said
"Both Psychic & Sanguinary vampires are really the same, "On that we agree, little else.
Fact: it is impossible for a human being to live on human blood. In spite of the psychological assumption, you would vomit before you could digest enough blood to satisfy nutritional needs.
Fact: the concept of a psychic vampire only goes back to the 19th century, when the word entered the English language and was then applied to people who drain you of energy. The idea of a secret Kemetic tradition is popular in certain circles, of course, and Egyptian hotel owners are probably charging money to initiate people into it as they did with the Order of Isis and Osiris and other scams, but it is ridiculous.
Fact: Aset is the Egyptian for Isis. What on Earth does she have to do with Vampirism?
Finally: Vampires originate from Hungarian/Romanian folklore. The term should be applied strictly to re-animated corpses that feed off the blood of the living. They do not, of course, exist, and modern concepts of them derive mostly from films, particularly the idea that they cannot abide daylight - they might use the night to snare victims but Ruthven (1817), Varney (1838-40), Carmilla (1873) and Dracula all walked around b y day. The idea that vampires turned others into vampires seems to originate with Varney, there is no hint at how Ruthven became a vampire. The idea that only some victims of vampires became vampires themselves (after the infection theory took hold with Dracula after microbes were realised to cause disease) appeared in a Hammer adaptation of Carmilla but only really took off with Anne Rice.
Our modern ideas of vampire powers derive from the relative budgets of the filmsand TV shows involved. Can they fly? Yes - when a bat (Dracula) yes (Salem's Lot) no (Anne Rice) yes (The Lost Boys) no (Blood Ties - the 1985 movie as well as the new TV series) yes (Forever Knight), no (Buffy).This is really silly. I'm just waiting for the Children of Cain stuff to emerge .........."
You are incorrect on every account, but since you find this silly, I'm not going to bother explaining it all to you.
Do What Thou Wilt
"93
Now, heres my problem:"
Actually the problem lies in many here's misunderstanding of vampirism. -
@Cliff Oth said
"Actually the problem lies in many here's misunderstanding of vampirism."
Get off it Cliff Oth...the problem lies in this thread altogether - I wish I hadn't entertained it to begin with
...fucking vampires
616
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I already knew the answers to the questions I asked, but I wanted a thelemic view on Psychic Vampirism. I'd like to thank everyone for there sarcastic remarks and uneducated replies. It is clear to me that none of you (except maybe one?) have taken the time to ever read a book on authentic Psychic Vampirism.
FallenAngel
P.S. Psychic Vampirism has little or nothing to do with blood drinking, folklore, the vampire archetype or stupid jokes.
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I love vampires. I really do. They are hot and powerful. They can get into bed all the beautiful people. They live forever and they are creatures of the night. They can be violent or tender, sweet or cruel etc.
The key in becoming a vampire (psychic or blood-sucking or whatever you want to call it) is closing yourself to yourself and therein lies the trap. That's why this is a left-hand path. Your ego takes over and feeds on whatever it has at hand. And since the ego is never satisfied... I repeat, NEVER SATISFIED, you'll try to suck the energy and prana of all you can get your hands on.
Thelemites, on the other hand, have to give up their egos to the HGA. (Not all do, but eventually will do)BTW, keep an eye on this Order of Aset Ka and assure yourself that is not feeding on the ego of its members
Anywho, it is important to be in contact with your most dark secrets and deepest desires. Your vices will redeem you... but keep your feet on the ground because people that loose themselves in this fantasy are at risk of loosing their souls FOREVAH..... muahahahahahah.
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Or as Levi says
"When one creates phantoms for oneself, one puts vampires into the world, and one must nourish these children of a voluntary nightmare with one's blood, one's life, one's intelligence, and one's reason, without ever satisfying them."
The horror.....the horror.......
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@FallenAngel said
"I already knew the answers to the questions I asked, but I wanted a thelemic view on Psychic Vampirism. I'd like to thank everyone for there sarcastic remarks and uneducated replies. It is clear to me that none of you (except maybe one?) have taken the time to ever read a book on authentic Psychic Vampirism."
I respect the above note more than most things on this thread.
I saw your original post when I was out of town and didn't have time to give a solid, thoughtful answer. By the time I had the time, the thread had wondered so far into the gutter that I didn't bother. But your note above redeemed the question, so I'll take a few minutes to respond.
First, the Eighth Degree of O.T.O. includes specific training in intentional psychic vampirism, and this was written by the Prophet of Thelema - so one cannot discount the subject as being utterly anti-Thelemic out of hand.
OTOH, Soror Meral surely come back and haunt me if I didn't at least somewhat take a stand against this. This underlying area of concern is pretty simple: First, if you steal from someone, it's theft; and theft per se generally is un-Thelemic for a variety of reasons. Second, if you cause someone harm by an intentional act, then that per se likely is un-Thelemic. (I keep allowing "outs" because individual circumstances do come into play and I can't possibly address all angles.)
I've heard other self-identified vampires give opinions on why neither of the above applies to them and how they go about things. Mostly I've never been convinced, though I allow that there are places I might be missing something.
There is also the persisting risk that romanticization and excessive roll-identification with this idea may turn one into little more than a poser.
I think you were asking for a sincere answer based on principle. That's what I've endeavored to give.
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Jim wrote:
"There is also the persisting risk that romanticization and excessive roll-identification with this idea may turn one into little more than a poser. "
My point exactly. Posers are ego driven.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"By the time I had the time, the thread had wondered so far into the gutter that I didn't bother."
...prophet or no - IMO, pranic theft is already gutteral - not to mention a form of slavery not unlike chemical addiction & dependance...but, of coarse, "Do what thou wilt" & "the slaves shall serve"...
L.Lazuli
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I'd like to make it clear that when I talk about Psychic Vampirism I do not use the term because I identify with the archetype of the Vampire. I am not talking about being an ego driven poser either.
However, I suspect my Vampirism stems from my energy body functioning differently than most.... perhaps an irregularity in the way my Chakras process and store energy. I am not completely sure yet.
When I take the energy from someone I do it with their full consent and knowledge. I am not a predator. Psychic Vampirism doesn't have to be harmful. It can help both the Vampire and the donor. During an energy exchange energy may be cycled and manipulated between the two partners until it is at a higher vibration. The energy can then be used to benefit both people in various ways if needed. However, usually the donor has an excess amount of energy. Therefore no harm is being done and their will isn't being violated as they have agreed to the act.
So... can this thread please get past the idea of Immortal Bloodsucking Vampires and ideas of LHP Predatory Spirituality?
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@FallenAngel said
"However, I suspect my Vampirism stems from my energy body functioning differently than most.... perhaps an irregularity in the way my Chakras process and store energy. I am not completely sure yet."
If so, then that would be good reason to do some serious work on balancing and healing your aura, equilibrating your chakras, etc.
"When I take the energy from someone I do it with their full consent and knowledge. I am not a predator."
Let's be clear: That, alone, isn't enough assurance. There are people who literally drink blood who can say the same thing. They happen to know how to find and pick their targets. I'm not saying you're like them. I'm saying this particular defense, in and of itself, is insufficient.
"Psychic Vampirism doesn't have to be harmful. It can help both the Vampire and the donor. During an energy exchange energy may be cycled and manipulated between the two partners until it is at a higher vibration. The energy can then be used to benefit both people in various ways if needed. However, usually the donor has an excess amount of energy. Therefore no harm is being done and their will isn't being violated as they have agreed to the act. "
Yes, I've heard this argument before. It has never persuaded me, but I make allowances that it is possibly valid, at least in some cases. - BTW remember that my answer was in response to your posting a question and soliciting opinions, and then complaining that you didn't get a certain kind of answer. I'm not interested in arguing, I was simply willing to offer an answer to your questions.
"So... can this thread please get past the idea of Immortal Bloodsucking Vampires and ideas of LHP Predatory Spirituality?"
My answer had nothing to do with any of that. You are, however, a predator. That word needn't have a moral bias, it's just a reference to how (by your words) you feed.
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Thank you for your advice Jim. I respect you and your opinions.
btw, why is Psychic Vampirism taught in the 8th degree of the O.T.O?