Can someone explain the "93, 93/93" quote to me?
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@phoinix93 said
"93 KRVB
didn't see your post till after I posted
"...no worries
616
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93 = Thelema, "will"
93 = Agape, "love"LOVE is the law, LOVE UNDER WILL is written as:
93, 93 under 93 -
Of course, if you can use autocorrect you never need the shorthand
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93!
so, for years and years, i've been writing 93/93 as my closure and never thought a thing about it b/c it also is sometimes used as a more casual closing like when people might say adios -- "love under will" but the full formal closing phrase is 93, 93/93.
am i supposed to feel foolish at this point?
it's refreshing to know that we're all learning new things every day ::geesh::
93, 93/93
ME -
@sesheta156 said
"am i supposed to feel foolish at this point?"
Absolutely not! It'd've been foolish to go on saying it without attempting to learn its meaning.
616
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93,
The two posts on Calculating Gematria by EL23 and KRVB MMShCh have been moved from here to 'Qabalah'. They don't relate to this thread.
93 93/93,
EM
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
why do people say 93?
so they can identify themselves as pseudo-thelemites without the bother of obeying the charges in The Book of the Law and not have to worry about any inconvenient demands for explanations from folks what overhear 'em.
i know that sounds harsh, but lets face it: Liber AL vel Legis says "it is the law to give." not the word of the law, not the number of the word of the law, but the Law. all this "93" crap seems to degenerate very quickly into dogma and silliness.
Love is the law, love under will
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Luxinhominefactum, 93,
" all this "93" crap seems to degenerate very quickly into dogma and silliness. "
Obviously, I disagree. I used to write out the injunctions from CCXX I, v.40 and v.57, and <i>that</i> started to feel artificial and dogmatic. I still write it out when acknowledging non-Thelemites who communicate with me, but I don't see anything pseudo-Thelemic about using just the number(s) with those I know to be involved with Thelema.
I do find myself pausing, without any conscious intent to do so, whenever I write a 93 in salutation, because it still gives a jolt to my consciousness, reminding me that I am writing more than just casually.
93 93/93,
EM
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@luxinhominefactum said
"why do people say 93?
so they can identify themselves as pseudo-thelemites without the bother of obeying the charges in The Book of the Law and not have to worry about any inconvenient demands for explanations from folks what overhear 'em."
You do know (don't you?) that Crowley himself began this shorthand?
I have a postcard he wrote to Jane Wolfe with "93 93/93" on it.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"You do know (don't you?) that Crowley himself began this shorthand?
I have a postcard he wrote to Jane Wolfe with "93 93/93" on it."
It is also used in his diaries.
616
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@luxinhominefactum said
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
why do people say 93?
so they can identify themselves as pseudo-thelemites without the bother of obeying the charges in The Book of the Law and not have to worry about any inconvenient demands for explanations from folks what overhear 'em.
i know that sounds harsh, but lets face it: Liber AL vel Legis says "it is the law to give." not the word of the law, not the number of the word of the law, but the Law. all this "93" crap seems to degenerate very quickly into dogma and silliness.
Love is the law, love under will"
Hi Lux, 93,
Dont want to cause offence but out of curiosity do you greet everyone you meet with "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"?
For example answering your phone, talking with clients, ordering some food over a counter?
Interested to hear.... or is it just on these forums? -
@Jim Eshelman said
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@luxinhominefactum said
"why do people say 93?so they can identify themselves as pseudo-thelemites without the bother of obeying the charges in The Book of the Law and not have to worry about any inconvenient demands for explanations from folks what overhear 'em."
You do know (don't you?) that Crowley himself began this shorthand?
I have a postcard he wrote to Jane Wolfe with "93 93/93" on it."
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
sure i do. i've also seen him use "Do what, etc."
he also used to say crap like "good heavens!" and "god knows!" that doesn't make it a good idea for people called thelemites.
the prophet's path, and his stumbles, are not our own. if you want to dig into his errors as the Book of the Law and it's injunctions are concerned, look at how he handled the "business way" injunction and the state of his personal finances!
i hope you're not suggesting we die poor just because he did!
when he was on the point, he did quite well - his chapter on the greetings in "Magick Without Tears" is a great picture of the philosophy behind the proper use of the greetings.
what i see in orders that use "alternative" greetings is a tendency towards silliness. what i see in orders that use the greetings the Book of the Law indicates is very different.
as for "dogma," it's only dogma if you don't apprehend why you're doing it.
Love is the law, love under will
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@ptoner said
"[For example answering your phone, talking with clients, ordering some food over a counter?
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
actually, yes, I do - especially in letters or any kind of written communication - that's an Always. occasionally i have conversations where there isn't really an "introduction," but if it gets to the point where a name (or, more usually, my motto) is exhanged, then I give the Law.
and, yes, it gets me some weird looks from people. it also gets me some very interesting conversations, and occasionally a new member for A.'.A.'. or SOTO (or both!)
The sole exception to this is at work, on account of i work for county government and any kind of thing like that is considered "state sponsorship of religion" which would be grounds to be fired, and also would violate my part of the group-will involved in being an american as well as a thelemite. i am for the complete separation of "church and state" - it is, of course, arguable whether thelema is a "religion" or not - i fall on the "not" side, but in terms of other people's constitutional rights, well... i'm not terribly interested in playing semantic games with them. i'm also not entirely comfortable with that exception, but there it is.
Love is the law, love under will
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@luxinhominefactum said
"i hope you're not suggesting we die poor just because he did!"
The original question was, "Why do some write..."
And, yes, on matters of Thelemic cult definition, that is exactly the kind of thing for which one should turn to the cult's distinctive prophet
The point is, this was his formulation of an appropriate written Thelemic end-of-communication.
"as for "dogma," it's only dogma if you don't apprehend why you're doing it."
I do tend to use the word, more often than not, in its meaning of, "A principle or belief or a group of them" - as not too different from "doctrine," which more literally means "teaching." - But I know this isn't the more casual (and thus usual) use.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
"The point is, this was his formulation of an appropriate written Thelemic end-of-communication."
yes! and my point is that he was wrong!
Love is the law, love under will
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LOL. He's the only person in the universe qualified to enunciate such things.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
well, here we have a basic difference between our schools of thought, Jim. i am of the school that thinks the prophet can (and did, with sometimes alarming frequency) completely and utterly Blow It. i don't find this particularly surprising from my point of view, but i also don't find it necessary to repeat his errors.
this, of course, has drifted somewhat off the point of the thread.
Love is the law, love under will
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To take a quote from a Shakespearian play: "Brevity is the soul of wit"
The 'shorthand' version is great as an informal greeting to Thelemites you know well; enough that you know they do not need a full reminder of the law. That '93' gets to the point, a prior - shall we move on?
Some times people can also get hung up over the fact that Love is "under" Will. At the same time it is equal (93/93), a result of the relationship being dynamic.
It keeps to the spirit, without the restriction of the letter.
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Nice question. Bravely stated and answered soundly.
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E6
much has been explained well above and unless i provide an emphasis or elaboration you may find it in the text preceding this.
"93" and "93 93/93" or "93/93" are not quotes. they are substitutions, ciphers, for disciplines called "Thelemic Greetings", opting toward cultic slogans and religious greetings instead of catalyzing contentions by mages.
the character of a greeting being 'Thelemic' has two primary valences: one of these is that it is inherent to a religious cult, often following in the footsteps of their preferred leader, philosopher, prophet, or religious hero; one of these is that it is a willful explosion of social dormancy and complacency, keys properly to your Word or Logos as a Magus, if possible, and stimulates awakening rather than somnambulance. you will begin to notice through time that adopting cult slogans is the exact opposite of trying to stimulate and assist remaining attentive and aware.
like luxinhominefactum, i am from the minority capable and comfortable with criticizing religious heros and the Master in Thelemic zones. this can draw negative reviews from those who would prefer to prop him up as authoritative. the general milieu hardens into dogmatic resistance to mystical waking as it extends in time and assumes the structure and character of a social club rather than a disciplined order founded on the Law. the Thelemic is one of the most expansive in terms of accepting expressions of criticism and finding fault with its prophet and master. this is a testimony to its health.
E666