Probationary work clarifications
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@Frater Pramudita said
"I will trouble you all no futher, and I apologize for asking for advice."
It's not a matter of whether it's OK (from the forum p.o.v.) for you to ask. Rather, it's not OK for anyone to give advice to a Probationer. It negates their process. You're on your own, or with your Neophyte. That's the karma you created by being admitted by that Neophyte, and that's the process you've taken on.
"Mr. Eschelmen, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you, as I have told you before, but please, don't try to classify me when you don't even know me."
Fair enough. I admit the limits of my knowledge of you, and can only go by what I see here. My remarks were meant especially to address your visible actions here in relationship to the task you say you have accepted.
"I am truly sorry that I posted a diary entry on this site, looking for help,"
When working with a Probationer, I don't even want to see a diary entry until they are done and hand the whole thing in. I'll answer questions, provide instruction as requested, etc.; but it's too easy to take the current state of things out of context. A Probationer commonly shifts perspective on many things (himself or herself in particular) during the course of the probation, and that try-and-fail-and-succeed etc. needs to be let run its course without stepping into the middle of it.
So... don't show us your diary, just ask your questions. (If you wish.)
"I will not post questions when I am struggling, although I find it odd that others who post questions are not met with this hostility (but admittedly, they are not in danger of "screwing themselves" out of everything to gain from being a Probationer)."
Exactly! You're in a "figure some things out on your own" process. I am writing in respect of your choice and your process. Someone who has not taken on that task is in a different place.
"I do not have another AA member for 100's of miles, and this board, I thought, would be a means for learning, not having access to a teacher."
Again... feel free to ask questions when you want. Just don't frame it in terms of diary entries and the like. Treat them like, say, computer support questions: State a specific question in crisp, exacting terms, and you're likely to get crisp, exacting answers.
"Frater Phoenix is probably being intentionally vague with me, because he must know the things you stated, and more than likely expects me to figure these things out alone. "
Answers often should be no less vague than the questions. Clarifying a question often gives you the answer already!
"If certain people on this forum chose not to recognize the Motta lineage as legitimate, or chose to question whether or not I am a Probationer, I do have my Oath, signed by David Bersson, than that's their business, as, no, I do not need vallidation."
I make no comment one way or the other. The main thing here is that you are not a Probationer under me, or under anyone for whom I have responsibility, so I am barred from regarding you as a Probationer and interacting with you on that level. I can, however (and will!), interact with you as a human being with questions
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@Frater Pramudita said
"I want to make sure that no one is misunderstanding how I feel about my Neophyte Teacher. He is exceedingly wise, and is helping me in all areas, however, and I did not state that he was inefficient. However, he has not answered some of my questions, which after having spent the day thinking about it, I can only deduct this is due to him just wanting me to figure it out for myself. "
It has been my experience with my former Neophyte that any questions I had that he at the LEAST guided me to the answer by giving me suggestions of where to look, if not outright telling me the answer to my questions.
As to another post discussing the assignation of tasks to the Probationer. Read the Oath again. It calls for the Probationer to perform tasks as given to him by the Order, iow his superior. While the superior should not require certain PRACTICES part of the tests of a Probationer are to see what his dedication to the order is through these assigned tasks be they mundane tasks like photocopying documents, proofreading manuscripts, key entering documents etc. this practical work lays the groundwork for service to the order and also teaches the candidate in subtle ways.
Now requiring tasks like doing his or her laundry, cleaning their house? It may be occasionally funny as a joke but it also doesn't serve the student, just the master and the idea isn't to serve the master but to serve the student through the assigned tasks.
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@frateruranus said
"As to another post discussing the assignation of tasks to the Probationer. Read the Oath again. It calls for the Probationer to perform tasks as given to him by the Order, iow his superior."
No! That's exactly who it does not mean. In this regard the Probationer oath uses wording quite distindtive from the Neophyte oath in the same regard.
If I were at home, I could cite direct, well-distributed policy statements by Crowley emphasizing that the Neophyte is not authorized to do this. There are also documented cases of AC giving people hell (e.g., Fuller) for breaking this important rule.
"While the superior should not require certain PRACTICES part of the tests of a Probationer are to see what his dedication to the order is through these assigned tasks be they mundane tasks like photocopying documents, proofreading manuscripts, key entering documents etc. this practical work lays the groundwork for service to the order and also teaches the candidate in subtle ways. "
There is no place for this kind of chela abuse in the A.'.A.'. system.
Offers of service are another matter, of course. But your description sounds like the quasi-Nazi M. Motta approach which is entirely out of line.
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater PramuditaThe Oath of the Probationer states that the Probationer "shall perform any task the A.'. A.'. may see fit to lay upon him"; the Oath of the Neophyte states that the Neophyte "shall perform any tasks the Zelator in the name of the A.'. A.'. and by its authority may see fit to lay upon him". The meaning of these two clauses are very distinct and I believe the wording was chosen very carefully.
Indeed, the assigning of tasks to the Probationer by the Neophyte would certainly interfere in the process of "obtaining a scientific knowledge of the nature and powers of my own being". Are we to expect the Neophyte to know about the nature and powers of his/her own being? I don't think so...
The Probationer is given the entire A.'.A.'. curriculum, from Neophyte to Magus, to explore during his/her period of Probation and to keep a careful record of such. The one thing the Neophyte should not be doing during this period is suggesting tasks to the Probationer...
On the other hand, the Zelator will likely be of great assistance in helping the Neophyte address the weaknesses ( and strengths ) learned by examining the record of the Probationer.
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@Jim Eshelman said
"
@frateruranus said
"
"While the superior should not require certain PRACTICES part of the tests of a Probationer are to see what his dedication to the order is through these assigned tasks be they mundane tasks like photocopying documents, proofreading manuscripts, key entering documents etc. this practical work lays the groundwork for service to the order and also teaches the candidate in subtle ways. "
"There is no place for this kind of chela abuse in the A.'.A.'. system.
Offers of service are another matter, of course. But your description sounds like the quasi-Nazi M. Motta approach which is entirely out of line."
I don't see how it is abuse. Like I said, personal labour for the superior is definitely as no-no. But asking a student to typeset his diary or key enter a ritual etc. to help subtly facilitate his learning of the material? Some people, such as myself (dyslexia), find this sort of work helps us to develop a working knowledge of the materials because we have to pay closer attention. I never would have found this out were I not to have been assigned such tasks as typesetting this ritual or that ritual and to proofread this manuscript or that essay. I may be using the wrong terms to explain what I mean as well though.
And "quasi-nazi" is a bit strong don't you think? I wasn't saying tell the aspirant to do these things or they won't pass but that assignation of tasks helps to gauge the student and how best to help guide the student on the path with the most success. I think you are being a bit knee-jerk to my comment.
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@frateruranus said
"And "quasi-nazi" is a bit strong don't you think?"
No, I don't. I knew enough people who worked directly under Motta to receive consistent reports from several people.
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@frateruranus said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@frateruranus said
""While the superior should not require certain PRACTICES part of the tests of a Probationer are to see what his dedication to the order is through these assigned tasks be they mundane tasks like photocopying documents, proofreading manuscripts, key entering documents etc. this practical work lays the groundwork for service to the order and also teaches the candidate in subtle ways. "
There is no place for this kind of chela abuse in the A.'.A.'. system.
Offers of service are another matter, of course. But your description sounds like the quasi-Nazi M. Motta approach which is entirely out of line."
I don't see how it is abuse. Like I said, personal labour for the superior is definitely as no-no. But asking a student to typeset his diary or key enter a ritual etc. to help subtly facilitate his learning of the material? Some people, such as myself (dyslexia), find this sort of work helps us to develop a working knowledge of the materials because we have to pay closer attention. I never would have found this out were I not to have been assigned such tasks as typesetting this ritual or that ritual and to proofread this manuscript or that essay. I may be using the wrong terms to explain what I mean as well though.
And "quasi-nazi" is a bit strong don't you think? I wasn't saying tell the aspirant to do these things or they won't pass but that assignation of tasks helps to gauge the student and how best to help guide the student on the path with the most success. I think you are being a bit knee-jerk to my comment."
"Although the intentions & motives of the Nazis may be totally wrong, divorced from their actions their rigorous training, discipline, and order can still be admirable. Im not sure why that is an insult regarding organizational matters.
Either way, it wasnt intended in this way and it does seem a bit knee-jerk.
IAO131
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater PramuditaThe highest ranking of them also openly practiced extremes of sadism - sufficient for this to have become inherent in the meaning of the word. And "extremes of sadism" is a big part of what I meant.
-
Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@Jim Eshelman said
"The highest ranking of them also openly practiced extremes of sadism - sufficient for this to have become inherent in the meaning of the word. And "extremes of sadism" is a big part of what I meant."
Does "of them" refer to Motta or Nazis? And how is this 'inherent in the meaning of the word" if Marquis de Sade was in the early 19th century and the term 'sadism' was used well before the Nazi party or Motta ever existed?
IAO131
-
Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@Aum418 said
"Does "of them" refer to Motta or Nazis?"
Nazis.
"And how is this 'inherent in the meaning of the word" if Marquis de Sade was in the early 19th century and the term 'sadism' was used well before the Nazi party or Motta ever existed?"
Inherent by usage and history. In other words, it was a primary characteristic of the Nazi regime as embodied by its inner core.
-
Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater PramuditaI knew what Jim meant but I didn't take offense to it. I respect and admire what Jim has to say and do even if I feel in this case he is being a little over reactive on the topic.
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@Jim Eshelman said
"
@Aum418 said
"Does "of them" refer to Motta or Nazis?"Nazis.
"And how is this 'inherent in the meaning of the word" if Marquis de Sade was in the early 19th century and the term 'sadism' was used well before the Nazi party or Motta ever existed?"
Inherent by usage and history. In other words, it was a primary characteristic of the Nazi regime as embodied by its inner core."
The Nazis may have been cruel, but I'm a bit of a Sadist myself.
IAO131
-
Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita -
Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater PramuditaJim, you stated in reference to the Motta lineage:
"The highest ranking of them also openly practiced extremes of sadism - sufficient for this to have become inherent in the meaning of the word. And "extremes of sadism" is a big part of what I meant."
The reason I am revisting this thread, I would like to know, either here, or in an inbox email, if you are referring to David Berrson, aka Frater Sphinx aka Frater Phoenix whom Motta made the head of his lineage and O.T.O. upon his death.
I am asking because this person is the person that admitted me into the A A and is my Neophyte, but for reasons I wouldn't discuss in the open, I have reasons to seriously question my choice. I would appreciate any feedback
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@Frater Pramudita said
"The reason I am revisting this thread, I would like to know, either here, or in an inbox email, if you are referring to David Berrson, aka Frater Sphinx aka Frater Phoenix whom Motta made the head of his lineage and O.T.O. upon his death."
I have no information on behavior of David Berrson in this regard.
-
Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater PramuditaWell you said the highest ranking. David Bersson is the highest ranking of the Motta lineage. Sorry for the confusion, but may I have a private conversation with you seeking genuine advice?
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Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramudita@Frater Pramudita said
"Well you said the highest ranking. David Bersson is the highest ranking of the Motta lineage. Sorry for the confusion, but may I have a private conversation with you seeking genuine advice?"
All of my comments were concerning events during Motta's life.
-
Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater PramuditaDo as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Greetings.
I am currently preparing for the probationary period and putting together a personal regiment. In doing so I know it is necessary to memorize a chapter of Liber LXV. Is there any suggestions as to this process? Any particular chapter more advisable than any other?
Now, I must admit. I have read this over and over and read the commentary and I still do not fully get it. I get so much out of many of Crowley's other works which are deep, yet understandable and not totally cryptic. Why was this the piece chosen for this? I mean much of Crowley's works are so much more poetical and even beautiful...but this Liber really does not resonate with me like some others. Even the commentary supposedly expounding on it does not reveal much. It almost appears to be grasping at straws at times. Anyone else feel this way when they started?
Love is the law, love under will
-Xkip93
-
Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater Pramuditanevermind
-
Care
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the LawI have begun my study of the Class B documents, and I have also started practicing the LBRP. I want to memorize it first before moving on to other rituals. As far as Liber E goes, I have practiced yoga for the 10 years that I had previously mentioned to you, including asana and pranayama, so this fortunately is giving me a jump start on my probationer work. What is really helping me is all the work I have done to perfect my Dharana. This helps me tremendously with my visualizations. I was fortunate in that they teacher of a Buddhist group that I was part of for quite some time took me under his wing and worked with me outside of the timeframe of our group meetings, teaching me about Mahayana Buddhism, and also about Taoism, and I advanced under him quite far. I must admit that I have never before used the vibration of names technique. I am having some success with it, as far as the Vibration being a powerful tool to assist me with the clearing of my mind, but I am not feeling the complete physical exhaustion that I was expecting from performing the technique correctly. I will continue to work on this.
I have also had considerable experiencing with Astral Travel, which I consider myself very adept at. However, I struggle with the generating of my Body of Light, or as I used to call it, out of body experiences. I have read and re-read Liber O, and am practicing the method put forth in it, but I seem to be still struggling. Would you be able to direct me to other methods or perhaps offer some insight into a technique you may know of?
I have in the past read “John St. John” and am using this as my guide in the keeping of my magickal record, and of course, the guidelines in Liber E itself.
I have had no experience with Gematria, or Geomancy, or anything of the sort, but I look forward to delving into them. I have much experience with the Tarot, and after receiving your email, have purchased a Thoth Deck, and “The Book of Thoth,” as I was using a different deck up until now.
I look to you as my kalyana mitta, of which I only have one other in my life. I actually asked him to try to join the AA with me, but it seems his path lies elsewhere.
I’ll end with saying just that saying that I used to be an intellectual. I valued knowledge and reasoning too much. I read many books on many subjects, but now I read very little and share what I have learnt, but not preaching. I don’t live a formula, I look deeply into my heart. Should and should not are not important to me any longer. I trust my heart instead. I am not perfect and I am fully aware of this, in fact perhaps I am becoming even more imperfect, as I come to be more at one with the Tao. I’ve done a lot of unwholesome things in my life, but I don’t blame myself or anyone else, these things and all others are what brought me to where I am now. I am practicing Scientific Illuminism in the AA, and also dhamma, and I’m happy about that.
Love is the law, love under will
Fraternally,
Frater PramuditaOk, after having read all of the posts on this thread I realize I will probably not get any feedback from my previous question.
But I am not in the Probation phase.
I am just studying A:.A:. material and looking at how I will apply it to my life at present. I understand much of the material and see the benefit behind its theory. I know my question seems a bit juvenile, but I have thought this, concerning Liber LXV for quite some time.I know that even Liber AL changes voices and is hard to understand at times, but it is a cohesive work IMO and I would count it very beneficial to memorize a chapter if not the entire work. But LXV just seems like a hodge-podge. It seemingly begins with rhyme and reason and then just falls all over the place. Maybe that is the reason for having to memorize such an article, because it is difficult to memorize something of its nature, I don't know?
For instance, the verse that reads, "Oh honey boy..." The commentary states that this is a reference to the bezoar stone? Come on, the verse does not even resemble the previous topic of such. My first impression was homo-erotic poetic verse...anyone else?
I would like to know how some of you have benefited from this Liber.
PS: One thing I find interesting on this forum:
If Motta's group under Bersson is so great, why are so many people from his group asking questions HERE? Is the great sphinx not available?
Here we have Jim constantly helping out here with true concern and care for aspirants. Do we eat at the Steak House and then go to Burger King to pay the bill?93 93/93
-Xkip