God Name Vibration & the Sign of the Horus
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Fair enough (btw, I quoted you on this point in an older thread: heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?t=2436) I just wonder how the non-existence of Daath would apply to Regardie's instructions in the MP to visualize a sphere of light at the back of the neck that he terms "Daath".
@Lapis said
"Is it possible to vibrate a divine name without projecting the name via the Sign of Horus? The only instruction on vibrating divine names I can find from A.C. involves the Sign of the Enterer..."
I saw one practitioner vibrate the divine names while tracing the pentragram, with no sign of Enterer afterwards. It looked fine to me.
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h2h -
@h2h said
"I just wonder how the non-existence of Daath would apply to Regardie's instructions in the MP to visualize a sphere of light at the back of the neck that he terms "Daath"."
A point that I never see given proper weight... probably because it is a little too paradoxical to stick in the brain easily:
The whole point of the existence of Da'ath is that no such thing exists. That's an affirmative condition: It is (one might say) a doctrinal tactic to say that, "No such thing as knowledge (as usually understood) exists."
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@Jim Eshelman said
" It is (one might say) a doctrinal tactic to say that, "No such thing as knowledge (as usually understood) exists.""
Isn't the above a form of negative theology - which is the nature of consciousness and freedom? Somewhere in the *Spiritual Guide *Molinos writes that "God is known more by Negatives than Positives"
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@h2h said
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@Jim Eshelman said
" It is (one might say) a doctrinal tactic to say that, "No such thing as knowledge (as usually understood) exists.""Isn't the above a form of negative theology - which is the nature of consciousness and freedom? Somewhere in the *Spiritual Guide *Molinos writes that "God is known more by Negatives than Positives""
ChOL. (I literally chuckled aloud on this one.) My first thought, on reading your question, was that I didn't care what label someone put on it. Then my second thought (bringing the chuckle) was that only knowledge would care what it was called, which is ironic given the question.
So my answer is: Sure, I suppose.
But: I don't necessarily agree that 'negative theology' is 'the nature of consciousness and freedom.' Consciousness takes a variety of forms (this non-form is just another form in some respects) and remains itself. And freedom (or, at least, the path to freedom) surely results more readily and more commonly from definition and differentiation than from their absence.
But these are just idle thoughts on the matter...
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@h2h said
"I just wonder how the non-existence of Daath would apply to Regardie's instructions in the MP to visualize a sphere of light at the back of the neck that he terms "Daath"."A point that I never see given proper weight... probably because it is a little too paradoxical to stick in the brain easily:
The whole point of the existence of Da'ath is that no such thing exists. That's an affirmative condition: It is (one might say) a doctrinal tactic to say that, "No such thing as knowledge (as usually understood) exists.""
Isnt that in the sense that its the crown of ruach - couldnt one understand it as the 'Child of Chokmah and Binah' or in the sense Dion Fortune did as on another plane?
IAO131
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Best explanation of Da'ath, ever.
Love and L.V.X.,
chrys333"The whole point of the existence of Da'ath is that no such thing exists. That's an affirmative condition: It is (one might say) a doctrinal tactic to say that, "No such thing as knowledge (as usually understood) exists.""
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In the 'Great Tree' arrangemant Daath is held as a macrocosmic manifestation of Yesod playing off their corresponding ideas of death(Daath) & sleep/dreams(Yesod).
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Sorry, but the non-existence of Daath is still unclear to me. A few questions:
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The very affirmation that Daath does not exist is a form of knowledge. What distinguishes this knowledge from the false knowledge of Daath?
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Reading through the descriptions of Daath on this thread and elsewhere, it is not even clear what “Daath” refers to. Archaic shorthand for the Supernals? Child of Chokmah and Binah? Death and dreams?? Intellect/Language/Reason? Shouldn’t this be clarified before asserting its non-existence?
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Does the “false” nature of Daath refer to the simple fact that duality cannot grasp nonduality? Or rather, the limitations of language when speaking about truth?
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If Daath does not exist, why bother talking and writing about it - why not scratch it off the Tree and be done with it - unless affirming its non-existence has a heuristic purpose and, if so, what?
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How does the TOT teach the non-existence of Daath?
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@Aum418 said
"Isnt that in the sense that its the crown of ruach - couldnt one understand it as the 'Child of Chokmah and Binah' or in the sense Dion Fortune did as on another plane? "
Which is still trying to apply knowledge to it.
It's not their child, though - that's a common misstatement. Tiphereth is their child. Da'ath is their union. "Knowledge" also means copulation.
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@h2h said
"1. The very affirmation that Daath does not exist is a form of knowledge. What distinguishes this knowledge from the false knowledge of Daath? "
It's a paradox, eh?
It's just important to get that anything you attempt to say about it is a matter of buying into it - of getting it from below the Abyss rather than above - which, of course, is perfectly normal.
"2. Reading through the descriptions of Daath on this thread and elsewhere, it is not even clear what “Daath” refers to. Archaic shorthand for the Supernals? Child of Chokmah and Binah? Death and dreams?? Intellect/Language/Reason? Shouldn’t this be clarified before asserting its non-existence?"
I sure hope not.
Da'ath is the Hebrew word for "knowledge." It is given a Sephirah-like idea and, like the Sephiroth, its name carries a lot of doctrine with it. That is, man\y things are said about it. One of my own earliest realizations about it was that it is the appearance the Ruach reflects of the Supernals from beneath the Abyss. It is called the union of Chokmah and Binah (from which their child Tiphereth comes forth) - and that's a good example of a thing that doesn't per se exist, but about which things can be said. It can be understood (in some representations of the Tree) as the upper boundary of the Ruach.
These are all things that knowledge is.
[qiuote]3. Does the “false” nature of Daath refer to the simple fact that duality cannot grasp nonduality? Or rather, the limitations of language when speaking about truth?"
It's that knowledge doesn't exist. All data is dependent on other data. All logical statement boils down to A and Not-A, and no single A can be defined or described outside the context of B, C, D, etc. Not just the limitation of language, but the limitation of rational thought.
"4. If Daath does not exist, why bother talking and writing about it - why not scratch it off the Tree and be done with it - unless affirming its non-existence has a heuristic purpose and, if so, what?"
Some things that don't exist are quite useful to talk about! There are surely dozens, possibly hundreds, of these that we use in the course of a day, including in occultism.
You won't get its purpose as long as there you approach it logically. You are, understandably, attempting to do this; but you can only understand a thing from outside of the thing. You have to get past knowledge to understand what is meant by knowledge.
"5. How does the TOT teach the non-existence of Daath?"
To the extent that you're asking the contents of official instructions, that's confidential. Otherwise, I'm not sure of exactly what you mean by the question; could you rephrase?
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@Jim Eshelman said
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"5. How does the TOT teach the non-existence of Daath?"To the extent that you're asking the contents of official instructions, that's confidential. Otherwise, I'm not sure of exactly what you mean by the question; could you rephrase?"
No, I'm good now. I shall now retire to silence..
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...& let us not forget 666's discovery while in Tunisia in 1923: epistemologia, 'the theory or study of knowledge(Daath)', equals 333, the number of Choronzon; 'Lies'.
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