Joining the A.'.A.'.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Actually, while this remains true of the 7=4, the occurence is part of the initiation into 6=5."
Sorry Jim I have not been able to aquire your A.A. book yet, I am interested as to what major factors you postulate cause the 4-3 abyss event? Further do you think it can be self-willed or self-began? I do not hold this view, it seems rather a "grace of God," that one can only purify towards. Do you think the karma is completely burnt up in 6=5? While I see Geburah as going toward a burning up of both the karma and ego, I think Chesed continues this work via charity, selfless service, renunciation, etc.
I posit at the end of Chesed one attains to a shining perfection of the microcosmic self, a little circle, which proves to be irresistable bait for the macrocosm. It thus seems to me that neither the karma nor the ego is completely balanced until that point, which is itself still precarious due to the separate self being by nature illusion, or rather not having a solid basis (like a tight rope walker). It seems then that only after the attainment to 8=3 can one really rest upon a firm basis, being unshakably united with Nuit which paradoxically may be unity with the flux rather than the stable. It seems to be a critical transformation, night and day compared to the lower spheres. How would you rate its immensity?
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@Wizardiaoan said
"Sorry Jim I have not been able to aquire your A.A. book yet, I am interested as to what major factors you postulate cause the 4-3 abyss event?"
You won't find that in the book
It intentionally stops at 7=4 (for reasons stated therein). And the answer here seems really easy except there's a bit of a technicality at this particular jump.The transition of Grade is easy enough to explain. If the question were, "What are the conditions that cause the Adeptus Exemptus 7=4 to become an Adeptus Exemptus Major [aka Babe of the Abyss]," the answer is easy: Complete the Task of the Exempt Adept.
But, once a Babe of the Abyss, what causes the next step? (There are several distinct gradations here. You haven't been quite clear which of them you mean.) The job of the Babe of the Abyss is primarioy to abide in the Abyss. "One Star in Sight" describes this particularly well, and I refer you to it.
"Further do you think it can be self-willed or self-began? I do not hold this view, it seems rather a "grace of God," that one can only purify towards."
I lean more in your direction on this, but don't think it's a binary question. For one thing, I deny what I think you mean by "grace." For another, I see so many causes that are quite intentional, just not in the same time frame; but the time frame doesn't matter a lot for this one. I very much like Crowley's reference to momentum. One has been moving toward this eventuality for many years, and the factors affecting one's momentum seem definitive. Yet there many be no clear sense of intention at the time - I think, in general, there would not be (and hasn't been in any fully successful case known to me). But I dance around without taking a firm position on that.
Crowley wrote in Confessions, "I cannot even say that I crossed the Abyss deliberately. I was hurled into it by the momentum of the forces which I had called up." I think that's a good statement of it.
"Do you think the karma is completely burnt up in 6=5?"
I wouldn't necessarily say "burnt up." The first part is as a 5=6 Within who is working the Path of Lamed. The task of this Path is described as follows: "the equilibration of himself, especially as to his passions, so that he has no preference for any one course of conduct over another, and the fulfilment of every action by its complement, so that whatever he does leaves him without temptation to wander from the way of his True Will." This is a good description so far as it goes. In the actual working of the Path, all the vectors of one's karma are worked (i.e., are working one). The above description is true by the time one becomes a 6=5, and then an extraordinary thing results: The Major Adept lives in a universe the very fabric of which is woven from the vectors of karma. (I don't know any other way to say it.) One is consciously living in intimate connection to the menstruum of one's karma. By continuing in the above task, concurrent with that of Mem (which is the continuing conscious conforming of oneself, with increasing intimacy, to the essence of the Angel), one progresses. There are many times in the grade when I could feel the vectors of karma equilibrated so that there was no impulse to move one way or the other, and choice (which was to be made in conformity with the Living Word of the Angel) was at hand. (Etc. etc. and blah blah, I suppose.)
The Task of the 6=5 includes the Path of Kaph. This is an equilibration or completion of Lamed in some respects. It gives one objectification on the Gunas and their revolutions in life. I think this is a significant help in maintaining the "karma neutrality." But, again, this is still the work of the 6=5; one who attains 7=4 has completed it.
"While I see Geburah as going toward a burning up of both the karma and ego, I think Chesed continues this work via charity, selfless service, renunciation, etc."
From the point of view of karma, those are "maintenance activities," at least for the most part.
"I posit at the end of Chesed one attains to a shining perfection of the microcosmic self, a little circle, which proves to be irresistable bait for the macrocosm."
I rather like your poetry for this event (and take this only as poetry, not as an objective description of anything particular that happens). My preferred imagery is that one finds onself standing atop the flat, square surface of a (hopefully) balanced-built pyramid, complete but for its upper part; standing here at night, under naked heavens of the body of Nuit, in mindful mystery and awaiting the landing of the completing part.
"It thus seems to me that neither the karma nor the ego is completely balanced until that point, which is itself still precarious due to the separate self being by nature illusion,"
Not illusin. It's actual. (It's composed of the substance of illusion.) It's actual in every real sense of that word. However, it isn't what one most deeply IS. - I agree with precarious, but the 7=4 is a tight-rope walker already well schooled in the balancing act, so this kind of "precarious" is "all in a day's work."
One might as well say that the connection to the HGA is precarious. It isn't really, because, once solidly established, the link is permanent. But living in mindful awareness of it, living in conscious passionate responsiveness to the Angel's word, is certainly not an hour-by-hour reality. This doesn't mean, though, that it's part of the 7=4 work as such. It's the 5=6 work. Ditto with karma and 6=5.
"It seems then that only after the attainment to 8=3 can one really rest upon a firm basis"
Unless you are intentionally using "rest" in its literal meaning as the actual Hebrew name of Saturn, I'd have to disagree. This "firm basis" comes many times, and perhaps most recently at the maturity of 5=6.
"It seems to be a critical transformation, night and day compared to the lower spheres. How would you rate its immensity?"
Fucking big.
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Thanks for the response.
@Jim Eshelman said
"The job of the Babe of the Abyss is primarily to abide in the Abyss."
That doesn't sound like hard work, I did it for 9 months before I was even born! By "Grace" my implication was that it is beyond the Adept's sphere to initiate its onset, that it is the grace of Binah. However I do see per the "momentum" connotation and way of thinking about it which I like too, that it was self-willed behavior in action and devotion that brought one to that point. Still, I am not sure everyone who builds up momentum in general will have the same fortunate result--the momentum seems of a special kind. But then again, by the attainment to 7=4, one should have probably worked out how to attain that special kind of desirable momentum. Even so, the whole event, being by nature the unexpected (and a critical, pronounced change), it seems will always be of the nature of a great surprise.
You quote Crowley: Confessions, "I cannot even say that I crossed the Abyss deliberately. I was hurled into it by the momentum of the forces which I had called up."
I had thought Crowley was one who rather did initiate the abyss event upon himself by taking on the skrying of Enochian's 30 aethyrs, but I guess my view is flawed here. Do you have any summary of Crowley's 8=3 attainment? Thanks for stating your 6=5 views, it seems you are saying karmic attachments are alleviated in Lamed on to Geburah, freeing one up to be led by the unitary angel.
@Jim Eshelman said
"The Task of the 6=5 includes the Path of Kaph."
Not sure why it would pre-dominantly, as Kaph connects Chesed to Netzach. You call charity, selflessness, renunciation, etc., "mainenance activities" in Chesed, what do you then see as the major work?
@Jim Eshelman said
"My preferred imagery is that one finds onself standing atop the flat, square surface of a (hopefully) balanced-built pyramid, complete but for its upper part; standing here at night, under naked heavens of the body of Nuit, in mindful mystery and awaiting the landing of the completing part."
Yes the pyramid description is very true. I have just found the entire mystery is contained in Crowley's unique version of Key XIX as Sun, whether really intended or not. The fertile earth is the pyramid of aspiration, but the wall is the abyss experience itself separating microcosom from macrocosm, as the top of the pyramid from its base. The symbolism is a bit too complex to discuss here, but if you draw a pyramidical triangle of 36 units base length and height, it gives the dimensions of the abyss as separated from the squared base. That is the Nv Pyramid I'v been working on, with the magickal square of the sun behind it. Crowley's Key XIX is a metathesis of the initiatory progress as steps, my conclusion is the card is meant to be. [Other formations of the card have the two children stepping out of the Nigredo into the Albedo, where behind the wall is the third circle of the Rubedo.].
^ = 12 units base and height
-- = abyss is 6 units height
N = square in the triangle of 18 units base and height.Basically, the alchemical "squared circle" glyph is the initiatory pyramid (see Michael Maier's Emblema XXI from his Atalanta Fugiens). unurthed.com/category/alchemy
The two children are the male and female in in the square of the delta triangle. Above their microcosmic duality is the wall which is the abyss that separates them from the apex of the triangle, which is the macrocosmic unity of the sun. Further the 36 unit triangle can be divided into 7 sections 6 units apart as the seven cakras. The 6 unit abyss is found to be right between the 4th and 5th cakras, which can be correlated to Chesed and Binah.
Yes I made the Adept up to 7=4 to be too shaky lol, I retract that. I was more referring to the onset of the abyss experience, where one may feel "peaked" or shaky in a religious kind of perichoresis, kind of like stacked geometries. You say you've been able to read a few case studies: of what nature is its onset?, how long is the white heat prolonged?, when do the reverberations subside and even out? Is the principle nature a snuffing out of the separate or limited viewpoint of self, an absorption into the infinite, etc?
I was implying that there is a greater unity with the Dao by "firm basis," that it is much harder to get into a rut, lose one's truth, to waver off the path, etc., where a new, improved unity with the source of truth has been established.
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@Wizardiaoan said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The job of the Babe of the Abyss is primarily to abide in the Abyss."That doesn't sound like hard work, I did it for 9 months before I was even born!"
Well, no, I don't think you did. It requires a well-developed Ruach to abide in the Abyss, and you didn't even have the neurology for that during the nine months you mentioned.
"Still, I am not sure everyone who builds up momentum in general will have the same fortunate result--the momentum seems of a special kind."
I am. For someone who has worked the grades all the way through to 7=4 and continuing, it's inevitable but for death intervening.
"Even so, the whole event, being by nature the unexpected (and a critical, pronounced change), it seems will always be of the nature of a great surprise."
I don't agree with that description at all; that is, I don't recognize it as describing anything that routinely occurs at that stage of development. If it's unexpected, someone hasn't been paying attention!
You're describing a Uranian type experience for perhaps the most Neptunian stage in all psychospiritual development."You quote Crowley: Confessions, "I cannot even say that I crossed the Abyss deliberately. I was hurled into it by the momentum of the forces which I had called up."
I had thought Crowley was one who rather did initiate the abyss event upon himself by taking on the skrying of Enochian's 30 aethyrs, but I guess my view is flawed here. Do you have any summary of Crowley's 8=3 attainment?"
He didn't set out saying, "OK, I'm off to cross the abyss today." Instead, he said, "I'm off to cross this part of the Sahara today." And even that whole trip was a consequence of his being "hurled... by the momentum of the forces," etc.
Summary of his 8=3 attainment? Do you mean the process or the consequences. The former can be found in The Vision & the Voice, and the latter well documented in The Confessions. I'll put some interesting quotes in the next post.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The Task of the 6=5 includes the Path of Kaph."Not sure why it would pre-dominantly, as Kaph connects Chesed to Netzach."
The Task of the 6=5 is substantially the working of the Paths which open unto Chesed. If you read "One Star in Sight" for 6=5, you'll find that the descriptions are of the tasks of Kaph, Yod, and Teth.
"You call charity, selflessness, renunciation, etc., "mainenance activities" in Chesed, what do you then see as the major work?"
I meant "maintenance activities" on the Karma issue. They're consistent with O.S.I.S.'s statement, "He will have attained all but the supreme summits of meditation, and should be already prepared to perceive that the only possible course for him is to devote himself utterly to helping his fellow creatures."
The main proactive task of 7=4 involves the higher Bhakti-Yoga (Para-Bhakti) and working the Paths of Zayin and Cheth before surrendering to the Abyss. Also bringing his Ruach structure and contents to its apical climax by his composition and publication of his thesis.
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Some quotes from Crowley from Confessions, concerning Babe of the Abyss:
@Ch. 58 said
"I cannot even say that I crossed the Abyss deliberately. I was hurled into it by the momentum of the forces which I had called up. For three years, save for spasmodic and half-hearted incidents, and the great moment in Cairo which took place in direct opposition to the united efforts of my skepticism, my cynicism, my disgust with everything, my idleness and my prejudices, I had been fighting against my destiny. I had been building up a great dam. My occasional return to Magick had been more in the nature of occasional sprees than anything else, as a man consumed by an over-mastering passion for a woman and determined to trample her under foot, might seek relief in occasional flirtations. . .
I found myself in a truly surprising state. . . I had all the innocence and helplessness of a child at the period when it gropes instinctively for someone to love it, someone whom it knows and trusts, who is infinitely strong, infinitely wise and infinitely kind. . .
The effect of my ordeal had been to remove all forces soever which had impinged on my normal direction. My star had been diverted from its proper orbit by, had been held back by, the attraction of other heavenly bodies. Their influence had been removed. For the first time in my life I was really free. I had no personality left."
Describing the time immediately following the 14th Æthyr:
@Ch. 66 said
"I remember nothing of my return to Bou Saâda. There was an animal in the wilderness, but it was not I. All things had become alike; all impressions were indistinguishable. I only remember finding myself on my bed, as if coming out of some catastrophe which had blotted out in utter blackness every trace of memory. As I came to myself, I found myself changed. I knew who I was and all the events of my life; but I no longer made myself the center of their sphere, or their sphere the standard by which I measured the universe. It was a repetition of my experience of 1905, but far more actual. I did not merely admit that I did not exist, and that all my ideas were illusions, inane and insane. I felt these facts as facts. It was the difference between book knowledge and experience. It seemed incredible that I should ever have fancied that I or anything else had any bearing on each other. All things were alike as shadows sweeping across the still surface of a lake – their images had no meaning for the water, no power to stir its silence.” "
And:
@Ch 67 said
"Part of the effect of crossing the Abyss is that it takes a long time to connect the Master with what is left below the Abyss. Deprived of their ego, the mind and body of the man are somewhat at sea until, as one may say, the ‘wireless control’ has been established. In the year 1910 Aleister Crowley was as a sheep not having a shepherd; the motives and controlling element had been removed and he was more or less cut off from the past. One thing seemed as good as another. He acted irresponsibly. He went on with his work more by force of habit than anything else, and the events of his life were, so to say, more chemical reactions between his character and his circumstances."
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Wizardiaoan said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The job of the Babe of the Abyss is primarily to abide in the Abyss."That doesn't sound like hard work, I did it for 9 months before I was even born!"
Well, no, I don't think you did. It requires a well-developed Ruach to abide in the Abyss, and you didn't even have the neurology for that during the nine months you mentioned."
Lol, it was a joke; I figured you would know I was joking. Anyway, your deadpan reply is funny.
@Jim Eshelman said
"If it's unexpected, someone hasn't been paying attention!
You're describing a Uranian type experience for perhaps the most Neptunian stage in all psychospiritual development."Heh, well in my defense it seems Crowley wasn't expecting it too much either, from what you quote above: "I cannot even say that I crossed the Abyss deliberately...I found myself in a truly surprising state..." I'm sorry, I don't get the Uranian/Neptune thing.
@Jim Eshelman said
"Summary of his 8=3 attainment? Do you mean the process or the consequences?"
I was just wondering the time frame when you thought he moved to babe of the abyss to Magister Templi, when his experience subsided, etc. It seems you think it was all during his 30 aethyrs working.
@Jim Eshelman said
"The main proactive task of 7=4 involves the higher Bhakti-Yoga (Para-Bhakti) and working the Paths of Zayin and Cheth before surrendering to the Abyss. Also bringing his Ruach structure and contents to its apical climax by his composition and publication of his thesis."
"Klīm, Krishnāya, Govindāya, Gopī-jana, Vallabhāya, Swāhā!" Why not work the path of Vau or Heh/Tzaddi also, and could you summarize you imply by working the paths of Zayin and Cheth out of curiosity?
Thanks for the quotes, Crowley comments well upon the 8=3 and above.
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@Wizardiaoan said
"I was just wondering the time frame when you thought he moved to babe of the abyss to Magister Templi, when his experience subsided, etc. It seems you think it was all during his 30 aethyrs working."
Babe of the Abyss was summer solstice 1909. Master of the Temple was December of the same year as documented in V&V.
That is, yes, he walked into the desert a six month old Babe of the Abyss, and walked out an 8=3.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The main proactive task of 7=4 involves the higher Bhakti-Yoga (Para-Bhakti) and working the Paths of Zayin and Cheth before surrendering to the Abyss. Also bringing his Ruach structure and contents to its apical climax by his composition and publication of his thesis."Why not work the path of Vau or Heh/Tzaddi also, and could you summarize you imply by working the paths of Zayin and Cheth out of curiosity?"
Vav and Heh aren't open until after reaching 8=3, since they are Paths of "approach" to Chokmah. Just as a the task of the 3=8 (for example) substantially involves the three Paths opening to Netzach, the task of the 7=4 substantially involves the Paths opening to Binah.
I keep referring you to "One Star in Sight" and it is apparent that you haven't yet read it; otherwise, you'd know the answer regarding to work of Zayin and Cheth. Here is the concise presentation there: "To attain the Grade of Magister Templi, he must perform two tasks; the emancipation from thought by putting each idea against its opposite, and refusing to prefer either [that's Zayin]; and the consecration of himself as a pure vehicle for the influence of the order to which he aspires [that's Cheth]."
I elaborated on this in M&MAA. For Zayin, I noted that, in addition to the normal meditative methods of yoga, the practical instruction for the task is Liber Os Abysmi vel Da'ath: The Book of the Mouth of the Abyss or The Book of Da’ath (Knowledge). It provides a technique for employing the intellect, isolated from the intuitive faculty, to destroy its own compelling hold on the soul. For the Path of Cheth, I wrote in part:
"The task for this Path... is entirely clear. However, each person must discover his or her own method for its accomplishment. Cheth is the final Path traversed before admission of the Adept into the Third Order and the Grade of Magister Templi, even as Samekh was the last traversed within the Outer College. The step yet before the Adeptus Exemptus compares to adepthood (to the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel) as that Knowledge and Conversation compares to the Neophyte’s initial aspiration within the First Order.
A certain assistance is given to the Adept in these matters.
First, as Liber Viarum Viæ confirms, for this “Ritual of the Holy Grail” we are given the horrible-beautiful Class A document Liber Cheth vel Vallum Abiegni. ... Another document from the Adeptus Exemptus Syllabus also may be of assistance in the basic task of this Path, the self-consecration of the Adept as a pure vehicle for the influence of the Third Order to which she aspires. The document is Liber Thisharb Viæ Memoriæ (The Book of the Journey of the Memory)."
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Babe of the Abyss was summer solstice 1909. Master of the Temple was December of the same year as documented in V&V. That is, yes, he walked into the desert a six month old Babe of the Abyss, and walked out an 8=3."
Thanks. Do you accept Crowley's attainment timeline as printed on xvi of The Holy Books of Thelema? [This has him as a 6=5 when he has Liber Legis communicated to him which is interesting]. It has him a 7=4 in January of 1906. It has "Magi" at October of 1906, which it seems is when he took the Oath of Magister Templi; however you surmise the actual move from 7=4 to Babe was Summer Solstice, 1909, then Magister Templi six months later in December, correct?
@Jim Eshelman said
"I keep referring you to "One Star in Sight" and it is apparent that you haven't yet read it; otherwise, you'd know the answer regarding to work of Zayin and Cheth."
Lol I did read it again upon your suggestion, but never made the connection; I assumed the "putting each idea against its opposite" was always a general supernal formula of unity. Thanks for the clarification. I also see the pattern now of working the paths that connect to the sphere you are working towards.
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@Wizardiaoan said
"Do you accept Crowley's attainment timeline as printed on xvi of The Holy Books of Thelema? [This has him as a 6=5 when he has Liber Legis communicated to him which is interesting]."
Pretty much, though I don't have it in front of me right now and I'm going from memory.
But there was a shift along the way. aAt one point in time, these were being measured as Golden Dawn level grades; at another point, as A.'.A..'. grades. In John St. John, AC referred to this as having the grades the "natural" world vs. the "spiritual" world, by which he meant Yetzirah vs. Briah. IOW the G.D. 6=5 is an attainment corresponding to Geburah in Yetzirah (for one who is not necessarily open to Briah), while A.'.A.'. 6=5 is an attainment of Geburah in Briah.
So, yes, he was G.D. 6=5 by that time; and one could even easily justify that the reception marked his legitimate G.D. 7=4. But, in the sense understood by A.'.A.'., he wasn't 6=5 until he initiated himself thereto in the fall of 1908 as detailed in John St. John.
"It has him a 7=4 in January of 1906."
Then or earlier for the G.D. version of 7=4, reasonably. But his A.'.A.'. 7=4 couldn't have been earlier than the fall of 1908 when he went to 6=5. I tend to put his authentic 7=4 as commencing with his publication of The Equinox in March 1909.
"It has "Magi" at October of 1906, which it seems is when he took the Oath of Magister Templi; however you surmise the actual move from 7=4 to Babe was Summer Solstice, 1909, then Magister Templi six months later in December, correct?"
8=3 in December 1909, yes; and 9=2 was in October 1915 (well documented).
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ADMINISTRATIVE NOTE to AVV:
If you have something to say, and wish to enter into intelligent, participatory conversation, please feel free to do so.
But otherwise please stop the dribble-of-consciousness droolings. You're on notice: Next time you do this at all, your account is gone and all posts with it.
One more (that's even ONE more) and you're gone. Last warning. It's going to take me 15-20 minutes to clean up after you peed your pants this morning, and I really have other things I should be doing.
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very mature.
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You can't be warned, it looks like.
Good bye and good luck. You are going to need it.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
@Frater_AVV said
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Join the club, baby...
And when I regain the simple discipline of being able to consistently meditate everyday and write in my silly little notebook again, I may just apply for 0=0 ...
after I get the balls to tell my girlfriend...
"Hahahahahaha!
That post alone had convinced me to join this forum. The 'sad but true' aspect is that's right where I am at this moment. Ah well, nowhere to go but forward...
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
As far as 'Joining' the A.'.A.'., really, there are a couple of ways.
(These are my personal opinions:-)-
rretac.org Check out this link if you are looking to take the route of eventually becoming part of the A.'.A.'. that is of the C.O.T. and T.O.T.
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Find a mentor (Neophyte) and take it from there.
In my personal experience, Initiations can be useful, but the true A.'.A.'. work is within ones own personal being.
May I suggest reading, if you already haven't:
Commentaries on the Holy Books and other papers, and secondly The Vision and the Voice with commentaries and other papers.
Crowley, Blavatsky et al. / Crowley, Neuberg and Desti.
Also, a great book that I recommend, and again this is my own personal opinion:-) is: The shining paths by Delores Ashcroft Nowicki.
The latter book will cover all of the path workings on the Qabalistic Tree of Life, as well as the spheres. The next step is Starting and completing the Aethyr workings.
Of course, you want to have a mentor before attempting any of this without prior knowledge.
Hope this gives some insight.
Love is the law, love under Will.
James
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